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I don't see this as such a bad thing. Hardly anyone I know orders bitz anyway, and the ones that do will be happy to order whole boxes instead since then that just means more spare bitz for the bitzbox! Besides, GW designs their boxes to have all the parts you need to build a legal unit and none that you don't. Letting people buy bitz separately just encourages them to build units in ways that GW did not intend! Good riddance I say!

Any smart converter knows that if you use parts that aren't in the box you do so at your own risk. Unfortunately some of you aren't so smart. GW gave you free rein to convert and what did you do? You abused the privilege and converted willy-nilly! Some of you even built LatD armies and then whined when GW took away your stupid army list! Now that they're taking steps to discourage you from making the same mistake again you whine even more! They're doing you a FAVOR and all you do is WHINE! What a bunch of whiners! GW just can't win! It's obvious that you whiners are not responsible enough to handle unrestricted bitz service.

GW is just trying to improve the hobby and if you don't like it then you should just shut up and GIT OUT! The rest of us should only be so lucky. But of course you whiny baby-babies just love whining too much to do that! Well at least we won't have to hear another round of whining about how your precious LatD/Kroot Merc/Alpha Legion/other army that you shouldn't have built in the first place got invalidated. In that respect I think GW is doing us all a huge favor. Thank you GW!

I'm thinking this is serious tongue in cheek.

So with this "downloadable order form" we will be able to take an "electronic document", fill it out with our "order", and then "electronically transmit" it throuth the "intarwebz" so that you folks can review it, give us a price with shipping, "electronically transmit" this new "order form" to us, who then pay you with "electronic intarwebz monies" and receive an "electronic receipt", and eventually our product.

In other words, and fewer air quotes, GW just placed a large, throbbing member between us and you, one which is circumvented with little difficulty.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually challenged GW in court over this? I am fairly certain that as a reseller of product, once you own title to it, GW has little to no say in how you present it and operate your order receipt process. Unless BWB signed a really restrictive contract. I dunno, I think this might make a really interesting MBA case study, and I might be just the prospective MBA student to do it...

Abby is right. While converting is advertised as a major component of the hobby, it is hardly mandatory to enjoy the hobby. Besides, GW has already made converting easy by adding so many plastic bits to the sprue, so that everyone can "convert" by swapping plastic bitz from different kits. Using green stuff and metal models is so early 1990s. The new sprues have all sorts of cool items, you can never have too many grenades and combat knives. GW was even good enough to add "legacy support" to those veteran gamers who want "old school" looking items by having a few beakie heads and a SINGLE mk6 shoulder pad per box. Nobody REALLY uses these, and you can always trade other players for what you need. GW is doing gamers a service by removing the "confusing" bitz system and streamlining the model building portion of the hobby by keeping things simple and TELLING YOU WHICH PARTS YOU CAN USE.

Talk about players being ungrateful!

/sarcasm.

keezus wrote:Abby is right. While converting is advertised as a major component of the hobby, it is hardly mandatory to enjoy the hobby. Besides, GW has already made converting easy by adding so many plastic bits to the sprue, so that everyone can "convert" by swapping plastic bitz from different kits. Using green stuff and metal models is so early 1990s. The new sprues have all sorts of cool items, you can never have too many grenades and combat knives. GW was even good enough to add "legacy support" to those veteran gamers who want "old school" looking items by having a few beakie heads and a SINGLE mk6 shoulder pad per box. Nobody REALLY uses these, and you can always trade other players for what you need. GW is doing gamers a service by removing the "confusing" bitz system and streamlining the model building portion of the hobby by keeping things simple and TELLING YOU WHICH PARTS YOU CAN USE.

Talk about players being ungrateful!

/sarcasm.

Ok, my sarcasm detector has been broken since I first read Abba's
post once upon a time, but I can't tell if you're riffing on Abba, or
against him. And then, THEN, you tell me you're being sarcastic!

I'm so confused.

jfrazell wrote:I'm thinking this is serious tongue in cheek.

Yeah, but post it on Warseer and watch them line up to say "Bravo! Well done GW!"

Second question: Has anyone submitted a complaint about GW fixing prices and colluding with retailers to do the same?
Trying to explain this situation to my wife, it occured to me that GW attempting to force all retail outlets to charge the same price it does on it's website smacks solidly of price fixing. Granted, it is only one company and not a group, but that might be an interesting angle.

If nothing else, it demonstrates that GW can't handle the idea of stores competing with each other and GW's store to provide a product at a better price. The wraith of Adam Smith shall rise up, and swoop down upon Nottingham with great vengance and furious anger!

Kesher wrote:Hi guys, here is the deal.
We didn't want to announce this quite yet because when this happened at BWBits the orders went though the roof.

Sorry! to late for me, just placed a order with the bitz i need asap

Wehrkind wrote:

...

...

Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually challenged GW in court over this? I am fairly certain that as a reseller of product, once you own title to it, GW has little to no say in how you present it and operate your order receipt process. Unless BWB signed a really restrictive contract. I dunno, I think this might make a really interesting MBA case study, and I might be just the prospective MBA student to do it...

If I were GW my argument would be that the kits are sold as complete kits under the proviso they are not split up for repackaging. This is the same as when you buy a bulk pack of 24 tins of Coca Cola and the packaging says "Not for individual resale" or something like that. So the principle has some kind of basis in commercial law, and clearly you can write legal contracts that limit the basic property rights of the buyer. (I am talking about English law.)

However, as I understand it, BWB operates by buying the spare bitz left over from making a kit and reselling them, such as the extra Tau carbines you get in a box of Fire Warriors.

Whether this activity falls in the same area as splitting up multi-packs of Coke I am somewhat doubtful. However any ordinary company going up against GW would probably lose on cash whatever the possible outcome of the case.

There is nothing to stop individuals setting up a bitz exchange website. It would have to operate on trust.

jfrazell wrote:Thats just stupid from a business standpoint. They are shutting off a sales channel. As they just shut off their own bitz lines (I almost dare you to find some type of bits remaining) this just kills a whole revenue stream FOR NO PURPOSE.

The cessation of GW Bitz and Classics sales has several positive (for them) effects. It reduces the amount of product codes in the system (which means easier inventory handling), stops the need to stockpile quite that many old moulds (I'd be willing to bet several of them will be scrapped to "free up space"), and reduces the amount of manual work required on behalf of the staff collecting the orders (it's easier to gather an order composed of only blisters and boxes as opposed to one of 25 separate loose components).

It's not a case of some evil overlord going "Mwahahahahahaaha!!!" in their volcano lair. It's a desperate attempt to cut costs.

Ok thats like the guy that is just toooo fat and instead of stop eating he cuts his balls off to be lighter

Yet i cant see how do they save any money by chasing and hunting independent bitz providers? The warstore is mainly plastic bitz off sprues so they dont order bitz by catalog they order boxes.

Without disagreeing that GWUS's general attitude towards websales is ridiculous, I'm a little surprised that the Warstore set up the bits on a webcart in the first place, given that Kesher went through the exact same thing just before he sold BWB to them...

This isn't GW targeting Bits sales. It's GW US enforcing the same ridiculous 'no webstores' policy that they've had in place for years.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Thats just stupid from a business standpoint. They are shutting off a sales channel. As they just shut off their own bitz lines (I almost dare you to find some type of bits remaining) this just kills a whole revenue stream FOR NO PURPOSE.

The cessation of GW Bitz and Classics sales has several positive (for them) effects. It reduces the amount of product codes in the system (which means easier inventory handling), stops the need to stockpile quite that many old moulds (I'd be willing to bet several of them will be scrapped to "free up space"), and reduces the amount of manual work required on behalf of the staff collecting the orders (it's easier to gather an order composed of only blisters and boxes as opposed to one of 25 separate loose components).

It's not a case of some evil overlord going "Mwahahahahahaaha!!!" in their volcano lair. It's a desperate attempt to cut costs.

I'm perfectly aware of the values of SKU management and inventory reduction. But that doesn't cut it:
*raise the price on per bits order appropriately
*alternatively why kill BW Bits? Its handling the inventory cost for them. Other companies refer to that as "outsourcing." They could have reduced inventory costs but then kept BW BITS open (even JV'd with them) to handle the bits orders. Again its a dumb move from a cash flow perspective.

jfrazell wrote:
*alternatively why kill BW Bits? Its handling the inventory cost for them. Other companies refer to that as "outsourcing." They could have reduced inventory costs but then kept BW BITS open (even JV'd with them) to handle the bits orders. Again its a dumb move from a cash flow perspective.

Because if people buy plastic bits broken down from the frames from them, then it cuts into the income GW gets from selling whole frames.

Hence why GW views bits resellers as a "Big problem".

Is "frame" the US word for "sprue"?

Hellfury wrote:

jfrazell wrote:
*alternatively why kill BW Bits? Its handling the inventory cost for them. Other companies refer to that as "outsourcing." They could have reduced inventory costs but then kept BW BITS open (even JV'd with them) to handle the bits orders. Again its a dumb move from a cash flow perspective.

Because if people buy plastic bits broken down from the frames from them, then it cuts into the income GW gets from selling whole frames.

Assuming people are still interested in doing those same conversions. Many won't be.

Hellfury wrote:

jfrazell wrote:
*alternatively why kill BW Bits? Its handling the inventory cost for them. Other companies refer to that as "outsourcing." They could have reduced inventory costs but then kept BW BITS open (even JV'd with them) to handle the bits orders. Again its a dumb move from a cash flow perspective.

Because if people buy plastic bits broken down from the frames from them, then it cuts into the income GW gets from selling whole frames.

Hence why GW views bits resellers as a "Big problem".

I'm talking about purchasing the whole frame. You can't do that now from GW. Thats why this is blindingly stupid. if you can't do something, its better to outsource and make some money then no money at all. If I have to buy the whole Leman kit to get to the sprue with the heavy bolter, instead of that particular sprue, then they've just lost sales from me.

Edit: as noted above, I'm sure not interested in doing further conversions if its under this level of expense. If inventory managers can run warehouses with fasteners for every airplane ever assembled and ship it to you that day, for profit, then GW could do a simplified version. Or again, just sell to BW Bits directly or via JV and let them habndle the inventory costs.

Kilkrazy wrote:Is "frame" the US word for "sprue"?

I think "Frame" is a Hellfury word for "sprue."

Everyone I know calls it a sprue.


Eric

Kilkrazy wrote:Is "frame" the US word for "sprue"?

My understanding is that Frame would be the technical term for what everyone calls a Sprue.

Sprue Frame

Many other modeling companies refer to those bits of plastic as sprue frames as well.

jfrazell wrote:

I'm talking about purchasing the whole frame. You can't do that now from GW. Thats why this is blindingly stupid. if you can't do something, its better to outsource and make some money then no money at all. If I have to buy the whole Leman kit to get to the sprue with the heavy bolter, instead of that particular sprue, then they've just lost sales from me.

jfrazell wrote:I'm sure not interested in doing further conversions if its under this level of expense.

Oh come on - think about how impressed your gaming buddies will be when you unveil that lovingly converted command squad that cost you $150 to build.

And if anyone thinks that $150 is an exaggeration - that's only 5 regiment boxes - a conversion could conceivably use: Cadian (torsos/guns), Catachan (legs, arms), Bretonian (man at arms head), Wood Elves (cloak) and Space Marine bitz (combat shield, powerfist etc). SWEET. I mean, doesn't that make you EXCITED. But that's not all! If you want to really show your hardcoreness, buy the same boxes from Canada! Then you can boast that your unit set you back 33% more, (for no extra value, other than the unparalleled joy of knowing that Canadians have to fork out an extra $50 because the people that live in Canada are "special" customers!)

If you aren't willing to step up like that to show your ENTHUSIASM and FANATICISM to the game system, well, you should be off doing something else.

/sarcasm

Wow, this really sucks. I actually stopped buying from TWS for GW stuff cause I don't like having to call during store hours; its inconvenient not having a shopping cart. I've used BWB many, many times to get all the bits I've needed to complete various armies and for this to go away just doesn't make sense.

GW said that they blackballed online stores to help B&M stores compete (something I actually agree with) but to cut BWB which provides a service that doesn't in any way compete with B&M stores or GW has no explanation. Its a whole segment of the market that otherwise doesn't get any support. Plus, there are dozens of eBay bits sellers who don't even have a real store like Neil does. All this does is help them.

Congrats GW, you've managed to piss me off. There is no logical reason for them to make this move unless they are planning their own plastic bits service (and even then there is no reason other than corporate greed)!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Well, at least the trader forums will be more active now.

Long live BWBitz. May Gw's stupid decisions play into better business for you!

I think I heard the price bandied about that to keep a good chunk of the bitz service going that most of the bitz parts would have to be increased in cost 3 x 5 times. The re-org is suppose to allow them to have some bitz sales and not kill it all off. Still sucks.

And so does the web policy, but I buy mostly from my FLGS anyway.

Meh, Phone it in instead of submitting it online.

It's a bit of a hassle, but it hasn't seemed to stop Neil from selling tons of GW stuff for the past few years, so I can't see it being a big issue now.

Hellfury wrote:but thats what I am thinking is GW's rationale for making life hard for bits resellers.

But, again, they're not targeting Bits sellers specifically. They're just enforcing the same policy that's been in force regarding web stores for some years now.

Cost of train ticket form Brighton to Nottigham:
£90
Cost of Crowbar:
£15
Cost of Lamping GW's super business ideas devision over the head repeatedly:
Priceless

They need to wake up and smell the veteran gamers who have invested in this hobby. I'm live in the UK as you can tell, wonder how long it will be before our bits sites (meager though they are) are culled like this.

Quite a while.

As I understand it, trading laws in the UK and Europe prevent them from putting the same sort of restrictions in place as GW US.

And rumours from back when GW US's 'no webstore' policy first came in suggested that GW UK wasn't actually too happy with the idea anyway.

Kesher wrote:

It means that you will no longer be able to process orders on the web through our site, however the pictures and pricing will still be on there for reference. As you know while at BWBits I was working on V2 of a downloadable catalog that is almost complete. It will be available for download and also in paper form for a nominal fee and include FREE downloadable updates!

The best part is that we will also have a downloadable order form that you can use to place orders just as easily as doing it over the web. And of course you can always call order in to us.

Huzzah!

Well except for people in Red China... But I can still email.

Normally this level of inconvience would be the kiss of death for a business (and it was for so many online retailers of GW) but I think GW fans and warstore customers have shown they're loyal enough to walk across broken glass for their bitz.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Thats just stupid from a business standpoint. They are shutting off a sales channel. As they just shut off their own bitz lines (I almost dare you to find some type of bits remaining) this just kills a whole revenue stream FOR NO PURPOSE.

The cessation of GW Bitz and Classics sales has several positive (for them) effects. It reduces the amount of product codes in the system (which means easier inventory handling), stops the need to stockpile quite that many old moulds (I'd be willing to bet several of them will be scrapped to "free up space"), and reduces the amount of manual work required on behalf of the staff collecting the orders (it's easier to gather an order composed of only blisters and boxes as opposed to one of 25 separate loose components).

It's not a case of some evil overlord going "Mwahahahahahaaha!!!" in their volcano lair. It's a desperate attempt to cut costs.

All valid points but if GW was really pricing bitz at below the cost of producing and packaging them what does that say for their business skills?

I always assumed my $5 powerfist included the cost of inventory and packaging.

My own 2 cents? I've hesitantly decided to give it some time. Being a hardcore modeler and a die-hard converter, I will be the very first person to stand up and say that the current cessation of individual metal bits is absolutely absurd (from my point of view) and the current smattering of "bits packs" is laughable at best. I'm hoping they iron this out over the next month or three, but I'm willing to give them time.

However, if they really are going to bold-facedly turn their back on this entire aspect of the hobby that they market, then I'm left gobsmacked, and unsure of my future as a GW customer. Having to go through forums and word of mouth merely to acquire some Ork Kommando power klaw arms to fill out a special unit for my hobby is just preposterous...