Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When I read this earlyer, I misread Dark Elves as Dark Eldar, and I told my friend who's been desperately waiting for new Dark Eldar that they were coming out at the end of summer. I wonder if I should correct that...

Aduro wrote:When I read this earlyer, I misread Dark Elves as Dark Eldar, and I told my friend who's been desperately waiting for new Dark Eldar that they were coming out at the end of summer. I wonder if I should correct that...

More then likely, because if you tell him now he will be just disappointed, you tell him 3 months from now and he might go on a murderous rampage.

It's been 10 years since the DE Codex was originally released. Another 2 or 3 years won't matter.

Ravenous D wrote:http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126981

So 5th edition is due out in July (in the Uk anyway, August for the rest of us probably) and that means Witchhunters, Daemonhunters, Space Wolves, Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Imperial guard are all going into 5th edition with 3rd edition codices.

Edit: Here it is:

October - Space Marines

So Space Wolf players will have to purchase another marine codex before we get our own?

Bastards.

Ravenous D wrote:Im surprised that more people arent pissed off about 5th edition hitting 3 years early. It really does bring up some valid questions that GW should be answering.

Although I imagine we'll get the usual spam from them saying that "the old system didnt work like we wanted" and "this is going be new and exciting", when in fact their answer should be "our investors are pissed and we need to gouge your nerd asses more frequently to get out of the crapper".

Can we see what your definition of price gouging is?

If you can't see GWs price gouging there is no helping you.

Hobbs considers it a tithe, not an expense.

Ravenous D wrote:Im surprised that more people arent pissed off about 5th edition hitting 3 years early.

Where do you get the idea that it is 3 years early ?

It's been 4 years since 4th Edition and 4th Edition was really more like 3.5.

Maybe it's just me, but after years of dealing with Nintendo, Microsoft, and SONY, 5 years of support is all I expect out of anything before they try to shove the new version down my throat.

Personally, I think the vast superiority of Battle For Stone Pass over Battle For McCragge, and the popularity of Warmachines Army boxes, has put pressure on GW to build a better 40K Starter Box. If they're releasing a new starter box, then it becomes the ideal time to turn out a new rulebook. No sense in releasing a new starter, only to have it's contents go outdated in a year.

As long as the next edition is backwards compatible with the earlier editions codices I don't see the harm.

I left Fantasy when they did the edition switch that killed the army books I had, and complained a blue streak when 3rd edition made my collection of 2nd Edition codices obsolete. The transition to 4th and apparently 5th has been alot less of an issue.

Crimson Devil wrote:Hobbs considers it a tithe, not an expense.

Meh, I'm with Hobbes.

In a game where we drop $250-$500+ per army, I can't get too excited over spending an additional $50 every 4-5 years on the current rule set.

Yeah, an average of $10/year for rules support is way too much to spend.

But in "the glory days" of 40k 3rd Edition, you paid your $50 upfront, then you had to buy a dozen WD issues at $5 a pop, plus 2 compilations at $20 each. At least, if you wanted to keep up with the latest rules in printed form. $150 total.

In 4th Edition, it was $50 for the rulebook. And that's all.

I don't care how you want to slice it, but the no-FAQ, no-Trial Rules, no-WD rules is a lot cheaper and simpler.

Quite frankly, GW could cut the cycle to 3 years between editions of 40k and it'd still be cheaper than the debacle of 3rd Edition.

Provided you don't play Space Wolves. Then it's still quite expensive. It looks like I will need to purchase another Marine codex to play my army.

There is a difference between rules support and being dicked around.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Quite frankly, GW could cut the cycle to 3 years between editions of 40k and it'd still be cheaper than the debacle of 3rd Edition.

For as much as people complain about the lack of Chapter Approved in WD and compilations, the lack of it does tend to save the gamers money. I still remember the confusion when TAR/TVR came out. Everybody was playing something different...guess that's why they called them "trial".

Maybe that's why GW's restricting the bitz trade. They realize they're not making as much money on books, so they need to sell more boxes and blisters.

Crimson Devil wrote:Provided you don't play Space Wolves. Then it's still quite expensive. It looks like I will need to purchase another Marine codex to play my army.

There is a difference between rules support and being dicked around.

I think you forgot the [sarcasm].

Oh Noes! 4th Ed SW paid $25 for the SM Codex - the same 1 Codex charge required by any other 4th Ed army.

The only guys who paid more were the BA players who had to buy 2 WD and C: SM. They paid $35, a whopping $10 more than you.

Gamers did starve because they saved all their money to buy Codecies...true story dat!

Seriously, I like the schedule for the next months. If you consider 5th edition just a rules revision without any
evil plotting to gain more money, it could mean some nice gaming. And the quicker the edition, the longer you newly released codex isn't outdated! huzaah!

I'm looking forward to the starter box, hopefully they get rid of th stupid click-together troops in there. Does anyone bought the snap-fit boxes? I hope not, that would be a good sign for GW to never release this kind of in the future.

Greets
Schepp himself

Dammit! I was really hoping some Space Wolves would be this summer, and then maybe they'd finish updating the codexes that are still in the old style covers before rereleasing another C:SM. That's so lame. and what's withLOTR being a bonafide release for a month? I liked it better when it went 40K Fantasy 40K Fantasy and so on.

adamsouza wrote:
Where do you get the idea that it is 3 years early ?

It's been 4 years since 4th Edition and 4th Edition was really more like 3.5.

3rd edition lasted from 1998 to 2004 and covered all codices plus the chapter approved atricles.

4th edition lasted from 2004 to 2008 and still has 5 major codices to cover.

GWs current release schedule is 1 codex every 6 months, so that should give 4th edition at least 2 more years, however GW has decided in all their infinite wisdom to cut it short. Its unorangized, its sloppy, and will be a raging cluster****.

I'm of the opinion that more rules is better than fewer rules. I don't begrudge GW for their rulebooks, Nearly every codex has been better than the one before it (Chaos cut too deep, but I'm warming to it), and the rulebooks have pretty good production values.

Couple this with the expceted bonanza of a Skull Pass style box for 40k, and I really have no financial problem with a new edition.

Of course, many gamers want to buy one rulebook and one codex and use them until they die. Others want new rules every month, compilations yearly, online content, Chapter Approved in White Dwarf, and 4 releases (for each system) every year. GW supporting it's rules, and GW selling you new rules, are two sides of the same coin.

New rules could solve a lot of problems with the old editions, making most of the codexes play a lot different. I welcome it, and it is about right on time.

Yea, I honestly am not worried about the price of a new edition's rule book. I am relatively happy to pay 50$ for a new book (assuming it is actually different, not "4th Ed with the FAQ in the back!")
Would I prefer frequent, comprehensive FAQs available online to support the rules I spent 50$ on a few years back? Absolutely.
Barring that, hell, picking up a new X-Box or PC game runs around 45-60$. I don't mind a new set of rules every 3-5 years. Cheapest part of the hobby.

Ravenous D wrote:3rd edition lasted from 1998 to 2004 and covered all codices plus the chapter approved atricles.

But "3rd Edition" is really 2 rulesets, because you need to count TAR / TVR as 3.1. So really, it's a 3-year cycle.

4th edition lasted from 2004 to 2008 and still has 5 major codices to cover.

Where did you ever get the notion that every army is entitled to a Codex every edition?

If you count total Codices by army and compare them with the number of editions, GW is doing pretty well:
- Space Marines (2 books)
- Chaos Marines (3 books)
- Eldar (2 books, 1 supplement)
- Imperial Guard (2 books)
- Tau (2 books)
- Tyranids (2 books)
- Dark Angels (1 supplement, 1 refresh, 1 book)
- Inquisition (3 books, 1 pamphlet)

The only real problem armies are:
- Necrons (1 book)
- Dark Eldar (1 book, 1 refresh)
- Space Wolves (1 supplement, no refresh)

Necrons will get a rules update because FNP and Rending is so much cleaner than WBB and Gauss.

Space Wolves should be thankful that they're still special. Any new SW book will force Combat Squads onto Grey Hunters and Blood Claws, while cutting their special rules down and taking away most of their armoury.

Dark Eldar don't actually need anything. Every day, they should be thanking GW that they haven't been officially Squatted.

GWs current release schedule is 1 codex every 6 months, so that should give 4th edition at least 2 more years

Where did you ever get the notion that every army is entitled to a Codex every edition?

The expansion of armies would slow new editions down to a crawl. From a rules update perspective, GW seems to be averaging 3-4 years between overhauls, so they should simply let people know that it's going to be a 4-year cycle, and that not all Codices will get updates when players want them. It'd be better if GW simply admitted that Tier 2 armies that they only get Codices every other edition, and that the Tier 3 army won't ever get a new Codex. And quite frankly, as long as the army is still playable, why the push to spend more on a new Codex?

Honestly, if they didn't change the rules every so often, we'd get bored with the game. I mean, look at chess.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Space Wolves should be thankful that they're still special. Any new SW book will force Combat Squads onto Grey Hunters and Blood Claws, while cutting their special rules down and taking away most of their armoury.

I don't think Space Pups will get the combat squad treatment. Lose options and misplace their armory, yes. But I at least feel Black Templar and Space Wolves are the oddest of the chapters, and would be my first choices to get some non-codex structuring. Of course redoing C: SM and making all those codex chapters conform to the codex astartes will be the best step in showing how special the Big 4 are (Big 5 if you include Chaos ).

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:But I at least feel Black Templar and Space Wolves are the oddest of the chapters, and would be my first choices to get some non-codex structuring.

Even odder than Chaos Glory!!! Weeeeee!!!!!



He speaks the truth, though.

And besides, never change a running system/horse/juggernaut/whatever...!

Greets
Schepp himself

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:Provided you don't play Space Wolves. Then it's still quite expensive. It looks like I will need to purchase another Marine codex to play my army.

There is a difference between rules support and being dicked around.

I think you forgot the [sarcasm].

Oh Noes! 4th Ed SW paid $25 for the SM Codex - the same 1 Codex charge required by any other 4th Ed army.

The only guys who paid more were the BA players who had to buy 2 WD and C SM. They paid $35, a whopping $10 more than you.

4th ed. SM + 2 WDs + 5th ed. BA Codex = $56

4th ed. SM + 5th ed. SM + 5th ed. SW Codex = $66

Your right John, I should feel happy GW took the time to fart in my direction.

I would like them to make the book smaller. It ought to be less than half the current size.

Cool, 5th ed comes out just about when I should get some hobby time back

Ravenous D wrote:

adamsouza wrote:
Where do you get the idea that it is 3 years early ?

It's been 4 years since 4th Edition and 4th Edition was really more like 3.5.

3rd edition lasted from 1998 to 2004 and covered all codices plus the chapter approved atricles.

4th edition lasted from 2004 to 2008 and still has 5 major codices to cover.

GWs current release schedule is 1 codex every 6 months, so that should give 4th edition at least 2 more years, however GW has decided in all their infinite wisdom to cut it short. Its unorangized, its sloppy, and will be a raging cluster****.

Your forgetting that 3rd edition HAD TO cover ALL armies becuase it invalidated the previous 2nd edition codices, while 4th edition allowed you to still use the 3rd edition codices.

Your entirely confusing your assumption of how it should be done, with what is required to be done.

You will still be able to happily play IG in 5th Edition with your old codex. It doesn't need to be re-done.
Marines got redone to be less vanilla, and move to newer plastics.
Orks got redone to be less vanilla and more competitive, and to redo stuff in plastic.
Chaos gets redone all the damn time because the GW staff likes screwing with it, and it allowed them to be done with cheaper to produce plastics.
Tyranids moved to plastic and introduced the genetic diversity.

The other armies will likely get new codices when GW wants to redo their line in more plastic and less metal.

Schepp himself wrote:Even odder than Chaos Glory!!! Weeeeee!!!!!

Of course not. Chaos follows the Codex Astartes. Haven't you read the Codex...

[/obvious dig at Chaos Codex]

BYE

Aduro wrote:I won't mind a new Space Marine codex so long as it doesn't remove my ability to take Cleanse and Purify. I've got all my 6 man razorback squads tooled up with twin special weapons, and I really don't want to have to rearm them all.

Dude, I would be considering what to do if/when that option disappears if I were you. Hate to say it, but less common (and more interesting) arrangements like yours are always first in line to get screwed up.

I don't play Marines either, but Traits were interesting to play against. I'm only slightly less worried about those getting flushed than I am about seeing Doctrines go bye-bye. If those things go, the life would truly have been wrung out of 40K.

JohnHwangDD: I gotta say, I find your remarks about the Dark Eldar codex (and some remarks you made about the ork codex Edit to add: in a different thread a while back) situation to be fairly meanspirited.

The fact is, not supporting an army is bad customer service from GW. I'm pretty tired of marines at this stage, and would much prefer to see an updated dark eldar or necron book.
When you've been waiting a decade, every extra month is an annoyance, and the constant faffing with near identical marine codices is infuriating.

But hey whatever. You're obviously entrenched in your position, I'm entrenched in mine. I just felt the need to let you know that I strongly disagree. Probably this cold making me more grumpy than usual.