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Do NOT do any of the physical threat/action suggestions; those are just brutally slowed causing more problems than it solves. Don't ever threaten violence. You want this guy gone, not hanging around spoiling for a fight or seeing you in court.

What you DO need to do:

1. Make it very clear to him that you do not want him around. No not mince words. Look him in the eyes, make sure you get him to state he understands. Make sure you tell him you don't want him on your property or calling your phone #. Don't escalate things with cops yet. If he breaks those, repeat what you've said and tell him you're going to call the cops/get a restraining order. Again, eye contact, etc.

2. You need to make it very clear to your gaming group about your limits. Having him tag along with them is unacceptable if you all want to be together. Tell them it's not their fault for this. You and the cousin simple do NOT get along and when you're together there will be tension/anger. Tension/anger RUIN gaming sessions EVERY TIME. So if folks want to have fun, make sure he's not around.

3. Make doubly sure you talk to your friend and repeat #2. It's not his fault he has a bad cousin. It WILL be his fault if he lets the cousin come along, by "accident" or doesn't get rid of the cousin if it's a true accident.

Again. Do not mince words, be very direct. Problem should be solved with a minimum of bruised egos.

Whats the problem? He's not allowed in the house. If he shows up, he can't come in. If he starts a ruckuss he's trespassing. If the cousin or whatever doesn't like it too bad so sad, he's not worth it either.

Moopy wrote:Do NOT do any of the physical threat/action suggestions; those are just brutally slowed causing more problems than it solves. Don't ever threaten violence. You want this guy gone, not hanging around spoiling for a fight or seeing you in court.

What you DO need to do:

1. Make it very clear to him that you do not want him around. No not mince words. Look him in the eyes, make sure you get him to state he understands. Make sure you tell him you don't want him on your property or calling your phone #. Don't escalate things with cops yet. If he breaks those, repeat what you've said and tell him you're going to call the cops/get a restraining order. Again, eye contact, etc.

2. You need to make it very clear to your gaming group about your limits. Having him tag along with them is unacceptable if you all want to be together. Tell them it's not their fault for this. You and the cousin simple do NOT get along and when you're together there will be tension/anger. Tension/anger RUIN gaming sessions EVERY TIME. So if folks want to have fun, make sure he's not around.

3. Make doubly sure you talk to your friend and repeat #2. It's not his fault he has a bad cousin. It WILL be his fault if he lets the cousin come along, by "accident" or doesn't get rid of the cousin if it's a true accident.

Again. Do not mince words, be very direct. Problem should be solved with a minimum of bruised egos.

This is the absolute best advice in this post.
I agree 100% with everything said here.
There's only one thing I'll add.

Step 1 should be, "MAN UP," and the rest should follow in order.

Now, that isn't meant to insinuate that you're being a wuss. It's just a term.
The first thing you have to do is look yourself in the eye (doesn't have to be taken literally) and remind yourself that a) you're a grown man, b) you are in your home, where YOU make the rules and not the cousin and c) as a man in his own home, you have to step up, overcome any trepidation you might feel about the confrontation and just do it. It's a lot bigger than just not wanting to be confrontational. You're being stepped on in your own home and a man does not allow that. Your house, your rules!

Also... don't ever refer to him as a "duche" (or DOUCHE). It's piss-poor manners. Retain your composure at all times and always be respectful to the man as another human being. Even if... No... ESPECIALLY if he becomes disrespectful with you.

Calling the cops should be the very final step you take, and it should be done discreetly so as not to stir him up further. Perhaps a prearranged "code phrase" with someone in the group to excuse themselves and make the call.

Lastly... I understood your meaning about pilfering. "Pilfer my stuff" and "Pilfer through my stuff" are both common(ish) terms here in the midwest where, in the former it's meant as "steal" and, in the latter, it's meant as "go through" or "paw through." Even though it's used incorrectly, it's fairly common for it to be used in that manner here. I think WhiteDragon can confirm that for me.

Good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Eric

If you find you can't get him to leave, or don't want to come off to the rest of the group possibly as an uncaring jerk for kicking someone out (even though you probably aren't and its the right thing to do), just make a really big deal of everything he does that irritates you.

If someone had come in uninvited and started playing my paused game, I'd have gone postal and made very sure he knew *exactly* what was going on and asked him to cease immediately. If he's rifling through your stuff while you are playing a game, stop the game and turn around, look him straight in the eyes and tell him to stop it. Make it very awkward and embarassing for him, and do it every opportunity you get. Make sure your friends notices this too and feels indirectly responsible.

He should get the message fairly quickly. When I had a 12 or 13 year old yu-gi-oh player at my local store just start picking my stuff up one day and just blabbering about dumb crap I just turned to him and asked him very directly while looking straight at him to *not* touch my stuff without permission and to cease talking. I made it a very awkward and embarassing situation for him in front of his friends and all the older people and he very quickly put my stuff down and left.

What do I call people who come digging through my stuff in my house? Well m'fren; that hits a really sensitive nerve with me. My own personal kryptonite, and I react to it poorly. Unless it is someone whom I know well (those people are free to dig through whatever they like but are not allowed to complain about what they find) at very best I call them a "memory" as they are walking out my door. I tend to get a little extra-special gakky with this particular behavior, in reality. It has it's own personal flavor of irrationability to it.

OK, there's been some hyper aggression in this thread. There's been some excessive passivness. Those two sentences are, of course, my opinions. You'll have to dig through the chaff and find your own personal wheat here. However, I happen to agree with:

jfrazell

Top post this thread.

It sounds to me like you have already talked to this guy, and his cousin CERTAINLY should have. Time for talkies is done in my opinion.

If I mangled any spelling or grammar in this post, consider it to be purposeful.

IMO, MagikalMemories suggestions FTW.

As I said before this thread has given me some great direction on what to do with my
problem. I do have some what of an update.. I did get a chance to have a long talk
with my buddy over the weekend and he completely understands where I am coming
from.
As for the cousin, called once and didnt get an answer. Didnt feel this type of thing
needs to be left in a voice message. Also not going to call him every 3 minutes like
he does me and have no plans to chase after him either.. When and if he shows up or
calls I will drop the axe.. simple enough

Unfortunately, these situations can be very awkward. I had similar trouble with a member of a roleplaying group I was running. Our wargames group has luckily never had that kind of issue, barring local kids coming in every now and then and breaking the odd miniature (which tbh I react much less strongly to than most here.)

But as to what to do: You've just got to clearly and directly state what your problems are. "Hey, don't come around my house and ring me all the time okay?" or "Please don't go through my stuff."
If that doesn't work, you can move on to "Please don't call me again." and "Please don't come back to our club."

I say give the guy a chance, but make sure he understands in no uncertain terms what is and isn't acceptable. Always call him on things he does wrong, never let it slide. If you're lucky, he might improve, and you can feel good about yourself for helping him. If not, then tell him to leave every time.

It's easier to give advice in these situations than to take it though- I understand that. I personally hate confrontation and would much prefer to avoid it. So I can see how this would be hard. But if the guy is having a negative impact on your quality of life, then you gotta do something.

Well, Friday is coming. Update us when he shows? Maybe the cousin talked some sense into him so that he'll either show up without the retardation or not show up at all. Honestly, if he shows up I would really not let him into my house, and tell the wife to sdo the same. But, again, that's just me.

Maybe you could get some cheap models off ebay and paint them up and leave them in an accessible place for him to pilfer them

Agree with Moopy and Mann: be direct but not confrontational, set specific rules without being judgmental, and make it clear--especially to your friend and your gaming group --that your limits are real, inflexible and that you're willing to walk if this guy keeps coming around.

As to his coming over uninvited, touching your stuff, calling you all the time, as said before, be direct and unconfrontational, then begin to give him the cold shoulder. Don't answer the phone when he calls, no matter how many times (if necessary, turn phone to off or silent). When he comes around, stand in the doorway, remind him of the ground rules, say goodnight politely, and close the door. When he goes for the Army Transport, firmly and politely tell him to leave your things alone. Eventually (assuming this guy is not a danger to society), he will move on to some other target.

Not sure I agree with syr8766 completely. I think he NEEDS to confront the guy. He doesn't have to be violent or even hostile or anything close. However, he DOES need to be confronted, to bring the situation (and his "hosts" take on it!) clearly and completely out into the open. Subtlety evidently doesn't work.

We always deal the same way with peoiple like this

1. Ignore him

2. Ask him why are you doing this in front of everyone else.

3. If all else fails invite him out take him to a bad part of town have him run into a convenience store for for a coke and leave him.

This got rid of a particularly loathsome guy in our gaming group.

Well an update on my problem. We haven’t had a Friday game in over a month, but not because of the cousin issue. The first one was on the holiday weekend and most of us where out of town and then this weekend I had already made plans with the wife. The Good news is that I Cleared the air with my buddy about his cousin. He will be more aware of what he says around him. The other good news is that a game shop opened locally, so we don’t have to play in my basement anymore. But my ultimate plan is to not get mad if he comes around, If he acts up, just call him out about being childish and embarrass him publically.

using the Gaming store will help you no end, they will be the ones (Staff I mean) that will sort the guy out if he annoys people, leaving you as the good, non blamable person. After all they don't want to lose customers after all do they? problem solved

Genoside07 wrote:Well an update on my problem. We haven’t had a Friday game in over a month, but not because of the cousin issue. The first one was on the holiday weekend and most of us where out of town and then this weekend I had already made plans with the wife. The Good news is that I Cleared the air with my buddy about his cousin. He will be more aware of what he says around him. The other good news is that a game shop opened locally, so we don’t have to play in my basement anymore. But my ultimate plan is to not get mad if he comes around, If he acts up, just call him out about being childish and embarrass him publicly.

How dare God fix this for you!? We paid for blood!

Genoside07 wrote:Well an update on my problem. We haven’t had a Friday game in over a month, but not because of the cousin issue. The first one was on the holiday weekend and most of us where out of town and then this weekend I had already made plans with the wife. The Good news is that I Cleared the air with my buddy about his cousin. He will be more aware of what he says around him. The other good news is that a game shop opened locally, so we don’t have to play in my basement anymore. But my ultimate plan is to not get mad if he comes around, If he acts up, just call him out about being childish and embarrass him publically.

If your game store is anything like the one I "grew up" at, you're in even more trouble.

It's in the store's best interest to keep everyone as happy as possible. Therefore, they had an "inclusive" rule. If you were playing a multiplayer game (D&D, for example) and someone wanted to join, you HAD to let them.

Store's room, store's rules.

At least at your place, YOU are the Master of the Domain (when your wife lets you).

Eric

Magical memories: I have to say, that's the most ridiculous store rule I have heard in a while. I can see why they had it, but so could everyone else I bet, and that's just blatant blood sucking. Heck, I have a FLGS here that has a "private" room that is reservable in case the noise of the rest of the store is a bit much for your game (usu. D&D'ers). The owner is not EVEN a little afraid to ban knuckleheads, no matter HOW flush with cash. The result of THAT policy (which I admit, I thought was a little much when I first saw it in action) has been that the store is orderly, parents actually want to drop their kids off for a day of games (with cash) b/c they know that the owner is a gamer but he doesn't play around (couldn't resist). Making people admit lost sheep is ridiculos, unless there was a really odd crowd there. But if you are making anyone do that, you eventually will be losing customers, I would think.

Agreed, the local store near me will try and run games for everyone, but if you booked a table then only you get to use it for the duration of that time, no-one else can butt in. A policy that works well, any one who over steps gets throw, (Not literally) out.

But as to whether this still works I've no idea, the whole staffing has been changed, its all new people running the store now, and I'm not sure how their policy has changed because of this.

Also, would the guy even want to come to the store, if he did wouldn't the staff apply pressure to collect an army himself and hopefully scare him off?

grizgrin wrote:Magical memories: I have to say, that's the most ridiculous store rule I have heard in a while. I can see why they had it, but so could everyone else I bet, and that's just blatant blood sucking. Heck, I have a FLGS here that has a "private" room that is reservable in case the noise of the rest of the store is a bit much for your game (usu. D&D'ers). The owner is not EVEN a little afraid to ban knuckleheads, no matter HOW flush with cash. The result of THAT policy (which I admit, I thought was a little much when I first saw it in action) has been that the store is orderly, parents actually want to drop their kids off for a day of games (with cash) b/c they know that the owner is a gamer but he doesn't play around (couldn't resist). Making people admit lost sheep is ridiculos, unless there was a really odd crowd there. But if you are making anyone do that, you eventually will be losing customers, I would think.

Ah, but you took my one statement and stretched it into things it wasn't.
I said nothing about "lost sheep."
This man was no babysitter, and he made it known.

The only kids in his store were the local kids who could walk/ride bikes, etc to his shop.
He didn't have a private room, but -if he'd had the space- probably would have.

A rule that says, "If you spend your money here, you can play here," is blood-sucking in what way?
Nobody likes to be excluded.
Granted, if you're a group of adults and some 10 year old wants to come join in, it can be a PITA. So? Deal with it.
"My house, my rules." KWIM?


...and I didn't think it was ridiculous, at all.

Put yourself into a different pair of shoes.
You (right now, as an adult... or whatever age you are) walk into a game store and see a group of people playing D&D. You've been looking for a group, and you love the game. You walk over, watch for a bit and politely, when the DM has a few free moments, tell him you've been playing D&D for X years and are looking for a group. You tell him that his game looks fun and ask if he has room for one more player.
Then, he looks at you and says, "No. Private game."

How would YOU feel?

I mean, there's ALWAYS room for another player. I can't tell you how many different "Adventuring Posses" (10+ PC's) I've DMed. It's not difficult.

Personally, I wouldn't feel like going back to a place with such -what I would feel to be- exclusionary groups.
I want "friendly" in my game store. That's where I'll spend my money.


Eric

If I were in the "different pair of shoes" example, and asked if there was space in a D&D game and was told, "No, private game", I'd be fine with it. Feeling that you are entitled to barge into whatever game is going on is silly; you get to be included in groups if people like you, or at least will tolerate you.

When you game, it's a social event. If you have a functioning group, and someone doesn't fit into the group, it ruins the experience for everyone. Come to think of it, the "include everyone" is the store owner's peerogative, but it sounds an awful lot like Communism to me.

Pinko!

I will sing a different tune, possible the wrong one but a balance is needed.

ABOUT YOU.

We only hear Genocide's story here. If this person was as bad as reported EVERYONE would be at him. Maybe everyone is, maybe not. Also when you seriously dislike omeone you remember and accumulate reasons its human nature. Its a bit like the bitchy prom queen attitude where 'she is so bad because' and the list of reasons can last as long as there is an audience.

The fact is people dont need a reason to be liked, if you like someone you just do. When someone is disliked you have to remember reasons so you dont think yourself a biased git. Hence Genocides long memories of this persons wrongs. Remember this is human nature, and no condemnation on Genocides character.

ABOUT HIM.

I am advocating something else. Looking at what is sad this person has a rejection complex, I have seen it before.
When someone has been rejected they look for rejection, push the social boundaries because they want to be accepted. It doesnt sound logical but it works this way:

"I have been bullied/abused before and people unfairly mocked me. I cannot find any real friends and am very lonely.
Here come these new people. I cannot sit and 'chill' with them, I dont know how. This form of intereaction is alien to me. However if I push the boundaries I will see where I stand. How I am expected everyone to turn around and call me a jerk, they all do. He hasnt yet. Maybe he is two faced. So let me take the liberties a little more, could this guy actually be ok? No, what he said to me last time wasnt good. What will he say tonight when I go around."

People with a rejection complex think this way, and I think this is what your friends cousin has got. All the signs are there, a person in this mental state will push until you close the door very firmly in his face, with likely repeated instances or accept him for what he is. The real clincher is his underlying character. Most people with rejection complexes are transparently nice guys underneath that want to be loved, 'wont hurt a fly' victim types, others less but people with a dark soul dont usually end up this way, and would propably flipped by now. Is he really a thief or just someone who wants to look in your bag? I think the latter, someone wo takes the libverties as an extreme reaction to rejection. The guy doesnt need medication, or a beating, he does need long and serious councilling though.

The comment about the computer game is the vital clue. Its something personal to you you were currently doing, by activating it he is communing with what you are doing, indirectly being with you. It looks to me like a cry for communion with you, to have a friend he can lower shields around. By being as close to what you are doing as possible.

This is the other point, people witrh rejection complexes run with shields max at all times, as a mental defence mechanism. If you can get him to lower his shieldsyou can proably sort things out with him. He might well be as good a friend as you can ever find if you do, or he may be a ticking bomb.

This is the third and BIG WARNING about people with rejection complexes. Its a sign, by no means a sure sign, but a sign nonetheless that someday about 20 years from now he will have a mental switch and turn into a serial killer, rapist or other monster. One trigger could set that off, but it is very very unlikely at this age - and may not be the case with this guy at all. But he fits the profile. The press would call him a sicko when he is caught, but notrmally such people are meek and mild for decades then at one late trigger he festers and beings to plan something nasty and from the first offense continues because there is no going back.

THE PEANUT GALLERY

A lot of the comments here advocate a very shallow thinking. The "he bugs you so just hit him" approach doesnt help. You are better than that, or you wouldnt have posted for advice.
A spoiled life is far greater trajedy than a few spoiled game sessions. This guy needs help, not hatred.

THE SOLUTION

Somewhere down the line this guy is a victim of something bad, I can smell it. Some means of getting rid of him, if this is your intent:

Q. If he phones and I dont want to take his calls?
A. Put the phone down, dont hang up, just put the phone down and walk away. Let HIM break the call. there is a subtly different mental process here. If he is placed at a point where HE has to break the call he is getting the message far clearer than if you hang up on him. This same technique is also a good way to deal with pestering sales calls.

Q. If he comes to my door and I dont want him in?
A. Politely and firmly say that he is not getting in. Do not let him in, even if it is raining, open the door so he can see you but keep the chain on if its raining, if not raining just stand in the doorway and firmly tell him he cannot enter for the 'foreseeable future'. And only use the chain if you think he will just try to come in as soon as the door is open. Dont talk to him through the letterbox, its impersonal and cruel, let him see you face to face, if you are not good aty confrontations gave someone beside you, but prep them to say NOTHING and to avoid hostile body language. Say that he has upset you and you want some time to yourself. make him think about what this is doing to you, be seen to be open not hostile. Paint yourself as a victim not a pissed off gamer. He will rationalise that, if I am correct about his 'victime complex' you will get an apology of sorts if you see him as someone who is also hurting.

Q. If I want absolutely nothing to do with him anymore.
A. Tell him yourself, ask for "closure". This may mean meeting him in a public place and being patient polite and firm in the meeting. Make sure your friend is there, but noone else, so he wont feel ganged up on. a cafe is good. Get your friend to buy him a coffee or cola from the outset, if he is not ann ingrate offer one yourself. Your friend will probably respect that far more than the usual reactions to his cousin. The idea is to find a polite way to get the cousin to go away while keeping your friend on friendly terms.

Q. If I accept that he is a part of my gaming circle, maybe because I have no choice, but want to tone down his antics?
A. INVITE HIM! Sounds odd but feature a game in which he is thought of in a positive way, if you can stomach the concept. Arrange a game to which is presense is planned catered for, try a light hearted game boardgames may be good. Give the guy a drink. if he behaves invite him back. But make it clear: INVITATION ONLY. From that point on maker a very strict rule for him: not invited=no entry. See above points as to how to turn him away from the door.
Give him a future invitation, one or two months down the line. Keep the promise. If he improves make it more frequent.

You may see fit to try and help him, that is up to you. One thing I will say about this is leave the councilling to those who are trained at it. Many people with a rejection complex are not mad, but have been called mad time and again by those who hate them. So there may be very strong resistance to seeking councilling. It helps to either break the stigma of councilling=madness, or send this guy to a well chosen church group or other group where he receives councilling by non medical means.



Now I dont know the guy, and only read what I read here. So this could be way off, but at least its a valid counterpoint. If you read this AND read what everyone else is saying somewhere in the middle you will get a balance.

Orlanth wrote:I will sing a different tune, possible the wrong one but a balance is needed.

ABOUT YOU.

We only hear Genocide's story here. If this person was as bad as reported EVERYONE would be at him. Maybe everyone is, maybe not. Also when you seriously dislike omeone you remember and accumulate reasons its human nature. Its a bit like the bitchy prom queen attitude where 'she is so bad because' and the list of reasons can last as long as there is an audience.

The fact is people dont need a reason to be liked, if you like someone you just do. When someone is disliked you have to remember reasons so you dont think yourself a monster. Hence Genocides long memories of this persons wrongs. Remeber this is human nature, and no condemnation on Genocides character.

ABOUT HIM.

I am advocating something else. Looking at what is sad this person has a rejection complex, I have seen it before.
When someone has been rejected they look for rejection, push the social boundaries because they want to be accepted. It doesnt sound logical but it works this way:

"I have been bullied/abused before and people unfairly mocked me. I cannot find any real friends and am very lonely.
Here come these new people. I cannot sit and 'chill' with them, I dont know how. This form of intereaction is alien to me. However if I push the boundaries I will see where I stand. How I am expected everyone to turn around and call me a jerk, they all do. He hasnt yet. Maybe he is two faced. So let me take the liberties a little more, could this guy actually be ok? No, what he said to me last time wasnt good. What will he say tonight when I go around."

People with a rejection complex think this way, and I think this is what your friends cousin has got. All the signs are there, a person in this mental state will push until you close the door very firmly in his face, with likely repeated instances or accept him for what he is. The real clincher is his underlying character. Most people with rejection complexes are transparently nice guys underneath that want to be loved, 'wont hurt a fly' victim types, others less but people with a dark soul dont usually end up this way, and would propably flipped by now. Is he really a thief or just someone who wants to look in your bag? I think the latter, someone wo takes the libverties as an extreme reaction to rejection. The guy doesnt need medication, or a beating, he does need long and serious councilling though.

The comment about the computer game is the vital clue. Its something personal to you you were currently doing, by activating it he is communing with what you are doing, indirectly being with you. It looks to me like a cry for communion with you, to have a friend he can lower shields around. By being as close to what you are doing as possible.

This is the other point, people witrh rejection complexes run with shields max at all times, as a mental defence mechanism. If you can get him to lower his shieldsyou can proably sort things out with him. He might well be as good a friend as you can ever find if you do, or he may be a ticking bomb.

This is the third and BIG WARNING about people with rejection complexes. Its a sign, by no means a sure sign, but a sign nonetheless that someday about 20 years from now he will have a mental switch and turn into a serial killer, rapist or other monster. One trigger could set that off, but it is very very unlikely at this age - and may not be the case with this guy at all. But he fits the profile. The press would call him a sicko when he is caught, but notrmally such people are meek and mild for decades then at one late trigger he festers and beings to plan something nasty and from the first offense continues because there is no going back.

THE PEANUT GALLERY

A lot of the comments here advocate a very shallow thinking. The "he bugs you so just hit him" approach doesnt help. You are better than that, or you wouldnt have posted for advice.
A spoiled life is far greater trajedy than a few spoiled game sessions. This guy needs help, not hatred.

THE SOLUTION

Somewhere down the line this guy is a victim of something bad, I can smell it. Some means of getting rid of him, if this is your intent:

Q. If he phones and I dont want to take his calls?
A. Put the phone down, dont hang up, just put the phone down and walk away. Let HIM break the call. there is a different mental process here. If he is placed at a point where HE has to break the call he is getting the message far clearer than if you put the phone down on him.

Q. If he comes to my door and I dont want him in?
A. Politely and firmly say that he is not getting in. Do not let him in, even if it is raining, open the door so he can see you but keep the chain on if its raining, if not raining just stand in the doorway and firmly tell him he cannot enter for the 'foreseeable future'. And only use the chain if you think he will just try to come in as soon as the door is open. Dont talk to him through the letterbox, its impersonal and cruel, let him see you face to face, if you are not good aty confrontations gave someone beside you, but prep them to say NOTHING and to avoid hostile body language. Say that he has upset you and you want some time to yourself. make him think about what this is doing to you, be seen to be open not hostile. Paint yourself as a victim not a pissed off gamer. He will rationalise that, if I am correct about his 'victime complex' you will get an apology of sorts if you see him as someone who is also hurting.

Q. If I want absolutely nothing to do with him anymore.
A. Tell him yourself, ask for "closure". This may mean meeting him in a public place and being patient polite and firm in the meeting. Make sure your friend is there, but noone else, so he wont feel ganged up on. a cafe is good. Get your friend to buy him a coffee or cola from the outset, if he is not ann ingrate offer one yourself. Your friend will probably respect that far more than the usual reactions to his cousin.

What the ever happened to just saying "go away kid you're bothering me." Doesn't anyone have cojones any more? Save all that drama and closure nonsense and tell "Dude I don't like you. Go away."

jfrazell wrote:

What the ever happened to just saying "go away kid you're bothering me." Doesn't anyone have cojones any more? Save all that drama and closure nonsense and tell "Dude I don't like you. Go away."

If it was this simple it would have been done. It is plainly obvious that Genocide feels a moral resistance to being completely blunt, and its a good sign that he does. Too many gits have obvoiusly already tried the shallow "go away kid you're bothering me" line before on this guy, which I do believe is why he is that he has become. It doesnt take cojones to act that way, its mainstream to be uncaring in this selfish world. But it takes cojones to try another way.

The fact that Genocide has resisted urges to flatten this fellow so far shows he has character, and I salute him for that.

you're not being caring. you're covering over the same thing with plattitudes on conversational nonsense. In the meantime Captain Jerk is not getting the hint, so time to be open.

Besides, you brought up the nutjob stalker linkage. Better to be direct and fierce then embolden the stalker.

since when does it become the responsibility of a gaming group to cater to the socially slowed? If a person has issues that need to be dealt with in a counceling session, then a gaming group is really not the place for him to roam.

also, I don't care what issues a person has, but rifling through someone's stuff is wrong. There are no grey areas there. If you open my bag, consider yourself lucky if all you get is a verbal dressing down that makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking about.

That said, if he has a rejection complex, whatever the hell that is, it isn't my responsibility to fix that by including him, when he acts out. Period. Get it fixed, then acclimate back into society.

While I don't think you should assault anyone (verbally or physically) I don't see anything wrong with exclusion. As with all places, when you are the new guy, it's up to you to get accepted into the groups, it isn't up to them to come find you..

jfrazell wrote:you're not being caring. you're covering over the same thing with plattitudes on conversational nonsense. In the meantime Captain Jerk is not getting the hint, so time to be open.

Sorry you really dont understand the mentality of a rejection complex. He reaction to being told 'enough' is to what a World War 1 generals is being told trench warfare isn't working. Blunt doesnt work unless you use violence or threats of violence in such cases. It is a mental illusion, simple as.

Just to expound the analogy World War 1 generals were by and large educated and intelligent people, but to change their thinking directly by coercion was unthinkable, quiteliterally. Hundreds of thousands could die and they still would not see past their own illusions.

So you might (I hope) begin to see why someone might not see past their own illusions when the stakes are far, far, far lower.

The hard truth is you don't break this sort of cycle by trying to crash a mental barrier, you need to 'under' it. Don't mistake careful psychology for glib platitudes, the whole concept of diplomacy was after all based on the truth that the correct words can be very powerful. Psychology works on similar principles, if you have problems with that it is likely because what you have seen of psychology has been marred by political correct dogmas so prevelant in the field today. You know they sterotypical movie prison psychologist that the bad guy convinces he is harmless and ready for release... Sure they exist, but dont mistake their dogmas for careful words of wisdom. Carefully handled people like this are evidently curable, all it takes is someone who gives a gak.

jfrazell wrote:Besides, you brought up the nutjob stalker linkage. Better to be direct and fierce then embolden the stalker.

That I did, though I didnt mention stalkers. But anyway hence the words BIG WARNING. However you can tell the difference between a jerk and an evil jerk. From what I read he is not that type, but is I think profiled to potentially become that type sometime in his 40's to 50's if he gets jaded over twenty or so years of adult loneliness. Profiling is in itself dangerous and highly discriminatory, but if the guy gets sorted now it won't happen. Possibly I am even being unfair, and even defamatory, but I am only sating potentially as a warning to see this guy get help, which is a whole lot more positive than what most of this thread has to say about the guy.

If Genocide gets the impression this guy is turning 'nasty' as opposed to 'grossly socially inconsiderate' that is a sure sign it is time to say a big permenant NO and think about restraining orders. Even that should be handled correctly, the correct NO technique leads to safe closure, another big dose of rejection wouldnt help and may give this guy a target if he really was close to the edge, which again I dont think he is from what is being said.

All in all I am running with very little information, I only offer pointers of what I think is happening, which over the internet are not much good. But that also makes the whole issue anonymous, thus I am not defaming a known person and can speak more freely than if I had any chance of meeting the man. Someone does need to take a look at this guy and see what sort of help he needs but that is not Genocides responsibility.

His choice is whether to find a way to firmly but tactfully close his life to this person, or to try and help him. What I am sure is that letting him get away with his antics is not a viable third option, if this guy has a rejection complex it wont be solved that way also Genocide and others dont deserve to put up with his behaviour.

two_heads_talking wrote:since when does it become the responsibility of a gaming group to cater to the socially slowed? If a person has issues that need to be dealt with in a counceling session, then a gaming group is really not the place for him to roam.

also, I don't care what issues a person has, but rifling through someone's stuff is wrong. There are no grey areas there. If you open my bag, consider yourself lucky if all you get is a verbal dressing down that makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking about.

That said, if he has a rejection complex, whatever the hell that is, it isn't my responsibility to fix that by including him, when he acts out. Period. Get it fixed, then acclimate back into society.

While I don't think you should assault anyone (verbally or physically) I don't see anything wrong with exclusion. As with all places, when you are the new guy, it's up to you to get accepted into the groups, it isn't up to them to come find you..

This is no arguement against that. No it is not the gaming groups responsibility to help him, but so far they have put up with him. If they are not going to make him VERY unwelcome (and there are plenty of posts on this thread giving suggestions on how to do that) then you need to know ways to steer him.
I used to be a youth worker and learned 'behavioural management', it actually works. As stated it is the job of professional trained councillors to analyse and help this guy face to face, not gamers, and that goes for me too.

The point is that even if the guy gets councilling sessions and attends them, they are likely to be spaced far enough apart that it is a process. He might not be better overnight most likely wont be, in that time what does Genocide do, give him a load of verbal abuse every time they see him? For a start that will likely hard reset whatever help he is getting on an incident by incident occurance.

It comes back to the two decent options open to Genocide: firm but polite closure, or steering him into becoming a more responsible person - at least around this social circle.

Orlanth, that was a very well-reasoned, kind hearted response to Genocide's problem. Thank you.




Malfred, make this an article.

I would strongly reconsider making that an article. There are implications to the advice. Making it an article gives the appearance that Dakka condones or supports the points made in the article.

This is a gaming site. This might open a can of worms down the road. Statistical significant chance-no. Chance-yes.