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? didn't know that ... but still they can't arrive from the monolith can they? It's clearly contradicted by the Warriors Reserve Rule. I've checked the FAQ but i don't think GW spotted this contradiction as they mention Warriors using their Reserves rule.

Until it gets FAQ'd, you can either allow it or be a weenie and say you can't use your army rules because you've decided they can't.

So, I choose to allow it.

GW needs to rule on this to tell us what they want people doing.

melevon wrote:in 5th you can keep everything in reserve, always(with infiltrators/scouts being able to flank; jump troops to deepstrike). You just have to decide before the battle starts.

Unless a codex has a rule which superceded the BGB. If the Necron codex defines the deployment exclusions of Necron Warriors, those would supercede the BGB rule on reserves.

I don't know what the Necron codex says/doesn't say about Warrior deployment but if it excludes them as capable of being reserves at the start of a battle, there ya' go.

Warrior Special Rules
-Reserves: Any Warrior unit in excess of the minimum required by the force organisation chart for the mission being played, may begn the game in reserves whether the reserves special rule is used or not. When they arrive they must emerge from a monolith portal. If there is no monolith when the units become available, they will be forced to wait until a monolith becomes available.

Monolith Special Rules
-Power Matrix: (too long skipping down to the important bit)
-if a unit of of Necron Warriors is eligible to eneter play from reserves (see the Necron
Warriors entry) then they must emerge from the portal even if you would prefer to
fire the partical whip. Only one unit of Warriors can enter play from eeach Monolith
in a single turn. The Necon Player desideds which.

Stelek wrote:Until it gets FAQ'd, you can either allow it or be a weenie and say you can't use your army rules because you've decided they can't.

So, I choose to allow it.

GW needs to rule on this to tell us what they want people doing.

No not being a Weenie, but Star Engins can't be add to a Ram even though it would be logical for them to do so ... ork Trucks can't ram though it is logical and very Orky... and Necrons don't allow for unit coming in through the monolith unless they uses the Warriors Reserve rule even though it sounds like the right thing for them to do.

The rule stipulates that the min force organisation for the mission can't uses it and only Warrior get the rule (IC joined to the unit could go ether way but i'd say not) ... playing Apoc. fine no min FOC so no restrictions. Using the BGB and standard missions then you can't do it ...(unless GW let you in an up coming FAQ)


so if a necron player wants to start the min FO of Warriors off the board fine but they're walking on from his board edge ... and i wish him good luck

Kind of humorous.

"Hey check this out it's UBER nobody can beat it!"

"But it's illegal, you can't do it."

"...aw c'mon, don't be a weenie."

A unit can in fact emergency disembark, but then it can't do anything at all, leaving that unit open to assaults. You're depending on luck to win you out really. Not the best bet.

As for the tank shocking monolith, it can, but not before the warriors arrive.

Well I agree killing all those monoliths would be hard.

I would also say based on the new rules and the wording of the Warrior special rules on reserves, that dropping the monoliths on the objectives and such would be fine but that the warriors would have to walk onto the field from reserves as they are not in excess of the minimum choices.

Show me where it's illegal, spellbound.

Unclear, is the best you can do.

And if you say 'I beat your list this way' and you don't know about emergency disembark...kinda makes me keep chuckling at your theoryhammer, ya know?

I knew, but since you have only two units and they can't do anything when they perform an emergency disembark, I kind of figured they'd be dead anyway.

And it's actually quite clear. Warriors beyond the first two enter through monoliths. Prior, they walk onto the board. Have fun.

Whats the point total on this list?

The portal rule means you disembark just like from a vehicle. Can 20 warriors FIT within 2" of that portal? If not, then you'll always be emergency disembarking anyway, meaning the turn you disembark you won't be able to do anything that turn.

what happens if your warriors and lords arrive before the monoliths?? you would have to walk them on i think.

then use the lith drop the help the warriors play catch up.

1829p ... OMFG i never bothered to look up the cost you'd get creamed by any army ... so what you've 3 hard to kill monoliths ... you've only got 40 guys and lose 30 you phase out

... this list is Joke if you had trouble with it i then you should really look at your army ... hell an army of 1000p could nock the S! out of them

(edit) ... oh and you can only fit 16 models within 2" of the portal (some people clame 17/18 if you place them right)

Turn 2 1-2 monoliths arrive on average... turn 3 1 or both warrior units arrive [depends on how many monoliths arrived turn 1, as well]. Since they probably don't fit, you'll have to emergency disembark meaning over three turns you've only fired 1 or 2 Monoliths' gauss weapons, and on turn 3 you'll fire maybe 1 Particle whip. Turn 4 you get a chance to shoot whatever you're trying to kill with those two squads and the monoliths that have arrived [assuming no warriors had to arrive that turn, in which case you lose a particle whip and a unit of necrons' fire, and if any monoliths still hadn't arrived by now you'll lose that particle whip too].

So you'll have two turns of any significant damage. Maybe.

This list just doesn't really seem that scary at all, now.

Hmm. I hear a lot of people saying this list is bad. That's...interesting.

How many of you have actually seen the Monolith model?

For those of you that haven't, it's about 5-6 inches across, more than enough space to hide a Necron Warrior squad behind. With Indirect sucking even worse than in 4th Edition, this is an incredibly hard list to beat.

Being a math-hammer nut, I decided to figure out how many Lascannons the Guard would need to bring in its army to drop 3 Monoliths in a 6-turn game. That's a Monolith every other turn.

1 Dead Monolith >>> 3 Penetrating Hits >>> 18 Hits Scored (Str9) >>>36 Lascannon Shots (BS3).

So if you have 18 Lascannons in your Guard army (or 12 in your Marines) at 1850 points, then you have a 50% chance of dropping one Monolith per turn. Chances are though, you won't have much space for any Heavy Bolters or other anti-horde weapons in your IG Army.

Once everything's on the table you are dead -- the second you get one-movement phase away from assaulting a squad, the Necron player can either Veil away or summon off to another Monolith and then make you eat Str9 AP3 pie.

This list isn't so much about killing your stuff as it is about making you think that your army is worthless because none of his stuff is dying.

It was bad enough using a CC army to kill ONE in a game. My friend wants to field 3 against me in the near future...I've been putting it off because I know how much of a stomping I'm going to get.

Triple Monoliths is insanely hard to kill. With my primary army being assaulty (Black Templars), even the 2 Crusaders, 3 Vindicators, 6 Meltaguns, 5 Multi-Meltas and 2 Lascannons isn't enough to drop even 1 in a 6-turn game. If I took all the units that had those anti-tank weapons, I'd have myself a 2500 point army. Any other armor, I have the Melta rule and Str8 Fists hitting Rear AV10. Not no, not against Monoliths.

CK

That's why you assault them and hope they fail a morale test, which is very possible given the new rules.

Spellbound, did you read my post? You get within 18" of the Warriors, and they're gone. They'll veil behind terrain, get summoned another 18" away, or somesuch.

The point is, unless you have models that can hang around all three monoliths for several turns waiting for the Necrons to summon into assault range, you're going to have a hard time with 3 Str9 AP2 5" Blasts and/or Rapid Fire Gauss Flayers. 40 shots from a single squad is nothing to laugh at, especially if it's backed by even one Monolith.

There are only two squads, so one Monolith is always going to be vacant from a transmit. If the player moves them like the corners of an 18" per side equilateral trianlge, then you're really screwed.

Unbeatable? Of course not. Frakking hard as hell/annoying to beat? Absolutely.

CK

Playing with my 6-skimmer Eldar list [all in reserves], I would be tempted to not use the Autarchs' +2 to reserves, and not deploy my DAs in their tanks [CC units stay inside I think], then when the monoliths drop down I would ram as many empty serpents at them as possible, and see if any s10 hits could dent the things

Then my troops and remaining tanks would go after the necrons, starting with the squad unable to veil. You could just tank shock them off objectives and scrape out a win, or try and get in assault and run them down.

I wouldn't expect to run into a list like this monolith circus in a tournament though, and ramming all my tanks into the monoliths is something I would never want to try out at a tournament either More realistically I would get my tanks to sit on the objectives, and try and prevent crons from getting within 3" of at least one, giving me a win by objectives.

It would not be fun at all to play though. Kind of like playing drop pod marines in 4th ed recon, where they just make a drop pod wall and run into your deployment zone for all the VPs. Lame to play against [or with.].

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Fire again."

"Sir, my missile launcher doesn't seem to have any effect."

"Damn."

"Shall I give the lascannon a try now, sir?"

"......."

THUNDERHAMMERZZZ

? monoliths are hard to kill but come on killing 30 necrons isn't that hard once they've gone so do the monoliths ... what is the difficulty with this army?

WBB from res orb, reroll WBB when ported through a Monolith. Using reserves, they don't show up until turn 2 or 3...very few turns to even attempt to kill 30

@Tri:

The difficulty is that in managing to drop a model that otherwise has an MEQ statline, you've really only killed 1/4 of it. Why? Because the ResOrb guarantees a 4+ WBB roll, and then if the Necron player isn't satisfied with the results, he can summon the squad and reroll the failed WBB rolls. So having a Sv3+/4+/4+ cumulative makes it damn hard to drop them.

In fact, the only real chance you have is to get them with a sweeping advance in close combat -- hard enough to do as it is, since they'll Veil/summon away when you get too close.

9 Bolter Shots at BS4:

vs. Marine >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Kill

vs. Necron Warrior >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Failed Armor Save >> 0.5 failed WBB >>0.25 failed 'summon' WBB
(With ResOrb and Summon)

As I said, it's a hell of a lot harder to drop Warriors than some may think. They're 4 Space Marines in terms of their durability, and unless you are able to inflict enough wounds in close combat to kill all the Necrons (or enough that they fall back and you sweep them), you're in trouble. At this point, power weapons do little to aide you, especially given how much you're paying for them.

CK

@Tri:

The difficulty is that in managing to drop a model that otherwise has an MEQ statline, you've really only killed 1/4 of it. Why? Because the ResOrb guarantees a 4+ WBB roll, and then if the Necron player isn't satisfied with the results, he can summon the squad and reroll the failed WBB rolls. So having a Sv3+/4+/4+ cumulative makes it damn hard to drop them.

In fact, the only real chance you have is to get them with a sweeping advance in close combat -- hard enough to do as it is, since they'll Veil/summon away when you get too close.

9 Bolter Shots at BS4:

vs. Marine >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Kill

vs. Necron Warrior >> 6 Hit >> 3 Wound >> 1 Failed Armor Save >> 0.5 failed WBB >>0.25 failed 'summon' WBB
(With ResOrb and Summon)

As I said, it's a hell of a lot harder to drop Warriors than some may think. They're 4 Space Marines in terms of their durability, and unless you are able to inflict enough wounds in close combat to kill all the Necrons (or enough that they fall back and you sweep them), you're in trouble. At this point, power weapons do little to aid you, especially given how much you're paying for them.

CK

well i am not to bothered by this list...

the liths will arrive one at a time, mabey 2.

but there is a 50 / 50 chance that you will get one warrior squad, and one lord as a walk on unit on turn 2.

my 4 railguns (2 of them happen to be twin linked) should have no problem turning a lith into a pool of living metal what with the bonus i get for them being AP 1 now

and i got 9 plasma rifels (boosted by markerlights of course) to deal with warriors and lords... not to mention, fire warriors, human aux units, kroot, and stealth suits.


o and BTW... a lith is a skimmer. correct me if i am wrong, but dont skimmers lack the ability block LOS...

at most i oculd see a a 4+ cover save now that they are so abundant. but even if the do block LOS.

this list has only TWO scoring units. yes yes i know, the lords and liths can contest. but in order for the lords to contest, they would have to detach. and then in turn, eat plasma.

your liths will be spending thier power core thingey to bring the warriors and lords on.. oooo can a lith even bring on more then one unit of nercons?? because the warriors are not a retinue for the lord, and would therefore take up 2 turns of power core goodness to bring a unit of warriors and a lord on.

Skimmers don't lack the ability, it's all TLOS

Envy, you're missing my point.

You're Tau. Okay, that's great. Congratulations. You play the only army in the game that has a reasonable chance of dropping 3 Monoliths in a 5-7 Turn game.

As for the dozen other races out there, unless we specifically gear our armies to take down AV14 we will have severe problems with this list.

As a Templar, I could fit 9 Multi-Meltas, 9 Lascannon (3 Infiltrating), and 6 Meltaguns in a 1850 list, and be able to deal with 3 Monoliths pretty easily. Unfortunately, it would mean that I've sacrificed my army's strengths to shore up its weaknesses, making such a list pretty terrible against everything.

Lormax is right about TLOS. What's more is that the Monolith doesn't come with a flying stand, so you basically would have three Pyramids in your list. Shooting from a hill won't work either, unless said hill is multiple feet tall.

CK

I want to see the hill that can let you fire over a Monolith...

All jump pack BA army should do well enough, assault the warriors when they arrive and force phase out. DC alone could break this list with FNP and regular armor saves.

FNP and regular armor saves don't work versus the monolith template...and getting cover is difficult against it unless you are in area terrain.

Guys... you cant beat the list....

This is why.. very simple.. try and undestand the words as they are typed...

You only have say 2-3 turns to shoot at something. ONLY 1-2 turns to assault. To beat this list, assault the Warriors, ignore the Monoliths, and cause Phase out as some of you think you could do would require this.

1). Fine a way to kill the Lord and a Monolith the turn they drop in. This takes away the Viel, and a teleport of a Warrior Squad.

2). Assault all 3 units of Warriors at once in the same turn to ensure 1 unit suffers a sweeping advance.

3). Even if you acheive both 1 and 2, the Necron player can now just stay away from you.

This list is not ment to beat anyone. Just make you look stupid as you wonder "How can I not win?"