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Orbital bombardments every turn? They can't be as powerful as the Space Marine one in that case. What you'd effectively have is a character with a S10 AP1 Ordnance gun, which is a touch daft and overpowered.

Probably much like DoW, Imperial Guard orbital bombardment will be more of a strafing run.

Flashman wrote:Orbital bombardments every turn? They can't be as powerful as the Space Marine one in that case. What you'd effectively have is a character with a S10 AP1 Ordnance gun, which is a touch daft and overpowered.

Probably much like DoW, Imperial Guard orbital bombardment will be more of a strafing run.

You mean just like it was over powered for witch hunters or deamon hunters?...... yeah thats what I though, one more rather random pie plate will not make or break an IG army, since its most likely on an over priced charcter with a piss poor leadership.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

New Commissar Lord is available as a new HQ choice with dual models.

Plastic Command Squads; Cadians and Catachans are said to both be getting plastic command squads.

Wow, GW really doesn't seem to get that no matter how many comissars and officer models they make, it won't result in sales unless there is actually a reason to field them.

What's the point of having a lot of close combat weapon options for a commander unless the rules make it a good idea to equip him so?

Dexy wrote:But you just know it's going to be the less desirable weapons like Mortars.

It's going to be at least flamer/missile launcher. It's the standard imperial loadout.

Plastic Valks!

Supreme! That will be a an utter joy!

Realisticly, unless something is done to fix the IGs massive achilles heal of assault impotence then none of these rumors, even if they are all true, will make the dex much fun to play.

But modeling at least, that could be wonderful with new Valkyries. Some light at least...

In closing, we got scout bikes for marines... where are the roughriders...? Lets hope they make some.

Flashman wrote:Orbital bombardments every turn? They can't be as powerful as the Space Marine one in that case. What you'd effectively have is a character with a S10 AP1 Ordnance gun, which is a touch daft and overpowered.

Probably much like DoW, Imperial Guard orbital bombardment will be more of a strafing run.

The rumor reads, "This fine chap gives you access to different types of orbital bombardments every turn..." (emphasis mine). I can only begin to imagine what that will entail... Hvy1 S10 AP1... Hvy3 S4 AP5, small blast, pinning, and using multiple barrage rules... Napalm strike: S6 AP3 Template... lots of possibilities there, tempered by the fact that it will likely be 2d6" scatter.

Ah, now that seems to be a whole new kind of awesome..

Perhaps, but with little capacity for assault, objective taking, mobility and a massive handicap in kill points missions what good is it?

Interesting, I suppose. "We will see", said the Zenmaster.

Very little unfortunately, but hopefully at least some of that will get rectified... tbh i'll still play guard regardless, but it'd be nice to be more competative.

Even though there really is minimal (no?) difference between that and "counts as"...

Well they always need something to complain about.


I'm glad to see the command structure is left to generics. The IG more than any other army should be defined by its command section, and it's nice to see them seemingly live up to this idea though.

Keep in mind they are doing this because doctrines were confusing to anyone that didn't own a guard codex. They rarely had to be modeled and were basically little hidden magic paragraphs with far reaching effects on the entire army. Its much easier to simply look at the command section on the table to see what they are commanding (amusingly enough, counts as conversions actually make this difficult).

mobility and a massive handicap in kill points missions

A fast skimmer transport is pretty damn good for objective taking.

Alpharius wrote:Even though there really is minimal (no?) difference between that and "counts as"...

You have spoken the forbidden words

ubermosher wrote:

Flashman wrote:Orbital bombardments every turn? They can't be as powerful as the Space Marine one in that case. What you'd effectively have is a character with a S10 AP1 Ordnance gun, which is a touch daft and overpowered.

Probably much like DoW, Imperial Guard orbital bombardment will be more of a strafing run.

The rumor reads, "This fine chap gives you access to different types of orbital bombardments every turn..." (emphasis mine). I can only begin to imagine what that will entail... Hvy1 S10 AP1... Hvy3 S4 AP5, small blast, pinning, and using multiple barrage rules... Napalm strike: S6 AP3 Template... lots of possibilities there, tempered by the fact that it will likely be 2d6" scatter.

Yay the IG ge they're own sternguard

ShumaGorath wrote:

mobility and a massive handicap in kill points missions

A fast skimmer transport is pretty damn good for objective taking.

Perhaps that could do it? Good point! It is pretty promising isn't it.

Can't wait to see what the kit looks like!

Personally, the difference between "count as" is matter of personal preference.

I feel that special characters with names should be special, and not just something that you give a new name to fit your fluff. It's lame, in my opinion, to go "this is Lt. Colonel Leash Boom, who uses the same rules as the the last chancers," or "this is my Colonel Commisar Soen So, who uses the same rules as Ibram Gaunt." I don't like it.

Whereas, something more generic like a "fleet officer" or a "commisar lord" or a "brass balled bloke who jumps out of aeroplanes," I can work that within the fluff of my regiment.

Doctor Thunder wrote:Wow, GW really doesn't seem to get that no matter how many comissars and officer models they make, it won't result in sales unless there is actually a reason to field them.

What's the point of having a lot of close combat weapon options for a commander unless the rules make it a good idea to equip him so?

What, you mean you don't just assemble your models like the pictures on the box? Oh, you silly tournament players and your crazy schemes! What will you think of next?

bryantsbears wrote:It's not ideal, but it could be worse.

You forgot the link. There, fixed it for you.

BoxANT wrote:Love the idea of a "Fleet Officer". Calling down Orbital Bombardments every turn in addition to our normal Ordnance would be lovely

I believe that, based on extensive Apocalypse playtest, GW has determined that the DH / WH "Orbital Bombardments" are not game-breaking in the least, particularly if tied to a squishy T3 Sv5+ model that gives up a KP.
____

EdMorgan wrote:You'd have thought that Orbital Bombardments would be restricted to Apocalypse games, surely?

Penal legions? Never going to happen, but how good would it be. The 1st Ed army list from White Dwarf was, and forever shall be, the Imperial Guard's finest hour...

I am expecting the single 5" Ordnance blasts from the DH / WH books here, not the 10" blast or 4-leaf clover from Apocalypse. Remember, this is ordinary 40k, so the big templates aren't available.

An amen, brother. That RT Guard list was awesome!
____

Doctor Thunder wrote:Wow, GW really doesn't seem to get that no matter how many comissars and officer models they make, it won't result in sales unless there is actually a reason to field them.

What's the point of having a lot of close combat weapon options for a commander unless the rules make it a good idea to equip him so?

The CCWs are there because they look good on the model, but from a practical standpoint for what they actually *do* in-game when given to Guardsmen, PWs should be +5 pts, and PFs +10 pts.

Similarly, Commissars get lots of models because GW's sculptors like to sculpt them, not because they are useful.
____

ubermosher wrote:The rumor reads, "This fine chap gives you access to different types of orbital bombardments every turn..." (emphasis mine). I can only begin to imagine what that will entail... Hvy1 S10 AP1... Hvy3 S4 AP5, small blast, pinning, and using multiple barrage rules... Napalm strike: S6 AP3 Template... lots of possibilities there, tempered by the fact that it will likely be 2d6" scatter.

Actually, you can bet dollars to donuts that it'll be *exactly* what is in C: DH / WH:
- S6 AP4
- S10 AP1
- S8 AP3 Melta
And most likely, the S6 AP4 one will be updated to ignore cover...

I'd expect cost to be +80 pts for the ability, using the highest cost option. Then they'll slap that on a 40+ pt IC, so the Fleet Officer will cost something like 125 pts. You're going to pay 125+ pts for a T3 W3 Sv5+ model without a Land Raider to stick him in? *Really*?

I probably would... just because he's cool.

Like I field Commissars and priests lol..

I still want human bombs though :(

Vraksian Renegades can get all sorts of bombardments without a special character or HQ slot useage (up to an including a 7" bombard template).

They just have to give up a whole Heavy slot and actually buy Vox Casters ...

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Actually, you can bet dollars to donuts that it'll be *exactly* what is in C: DH / WH:
- S6 AP4
- S10 AP1
- S8 AP3 Melta
And most likely, the S6 AP4 one will be updated to ignore cover...

I'd expect cost to be +80 pts for the ability, using the highest cost option. Then they'll slap that on a 40+ pt IC, so the Fleet Officer will cost something like 125 pts. You're going to pay 125+ pts for a T3 W3 Sv5+ model without a Land Raider to stick him in? *Really*?

For comparison's sake, how much does the Space Marine Captain pay for his one-use S10 plate? Of course, this theoretical ability wouldn't be the same, I'm just wondering. For one thing, doesn't the SM one have a range of some sort (fine for a frontline commander, but useless on a Guard officer who will ideally never leave cover)?

Do you also assume they'll keep the DH/WH version's targeting rules (choose a piece of terrain in secret, the barrage falls somewhere inside that), or will they simply count it as a regular artillery barrage? The latter would doubtlessly be more useful, and at least you would have a chance of getting your money's worth every turn (with the Inquisitorial one, you're stuck with your choice of targets, and cannot react to changes in the situation)

Also, I suspect that if the rumor is true as-written, the Fleet Officer will get some sort of additioanl ability (unless the status of fleet officer is just an upgrade you buy for your regular CO), as a model that existed essentially as a "kill me" sign for the enemy to try to get rid of to disable his ability sounds a bit pants. I mean, what kind of model would this guy have, a guy sitting down at a desk on the phone to his ship?

As for your guesstimated cost, I wouldn't dismiss it straight away, certainly. I routinely pay more points for worse units all the time (155 for a Medusa, 65 for a Thudd Gun, 200 for Ogryns, 315 for Malcador), and on certain tables, the ability to choose a piece of cover onto which to drop a couple of kilotons of explosives on would be fun and perfectly characterful. Even assuming the worst-case scenario (the old targeting rules from the DH/WH books) it could be fun to try to hit and depopulate objectives with it in a scorched-earth maneuver. Plus, since you can't model an orbital strike, there's no great commitment required to fielding one, so trying it out for giggles now and then would be eminently feasible.

JohnHwangDD wrote:What's the point of having a lot of close combat weapon options for a commander unless the rules make it a good idea to equip him so?

The CCWs are there because they look good on the model, but from a practical standpoint for what they actually *do* in-game when given to Guardsmen, PWs should be +5 pts, and PFs +10 pts.

Similarly, Commissars get lots of models because GW's sculptors like to sculpt them, not because they are useful.

The models have always been overarmed because of visuals. Sergeants get lp+chainsword so you know who they are, and officers get even more expensive wargear to make them stand apart from squad leaders. For the potential new officer sprue, I wish they'd include a simple set of arms holding a stormbolter or a boltgun, both of which I personally go for much more often than plasma pistol + powerfist. Ideally, the officer should be recognizeable as an officer by something other than his giant metal hand, too, so you could just give him a laspistol and a walking cane without losing the benefit of having an eyecatching commander miniature.

I can't really blame the GW guys for wanting to sculpt commissars, they have a pretty strong visual identity, more so than plain "senior officer". Which is why I hate the metal Cadian officers, and rather like the Commissar models.

I'd love to have a bombard.

Speaking on impractically armed officers, the monocle guy in the current command squad box isn't that bad. He's just holding a fancy sword that could be a power weapon (a largely pointless upgrade, but at 5pts something you can buy with points left over). The "junior officers" in blisters are much worse, especially since they look to be randomized in such a way that you get one guy with borderline sane weapons and one with powerfist+plasma pistol.

The majority of my officers are made up of the old Rogue Trader models... They came with no arms or weapons, so you could add what you wanted off the sprue...

The fleet officer sounds like just what I'd want: My gaurd army of choice has always been based around a Navy Crew, with Sentinels converted into loaders and the various crew castes represented by Conscripts, Gaurdsmen and Stormtroopers. Plastic Valkyries would fit my idea pretty well so this makes me happy.

My other army of choice would be Steel Legion mechanised, so here's hoping that build is still workable. But that's unlikely to ever get made without plastic Steel Legion models unfortunately. With a high model count army like gaurd plastic is a dealbreaker for me.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Actually, you can bet dollars to donuts that it'll be *exactly* what is in C: DH / WH:
- S6 AP4
- S10 AP1
- S8 AP3 Melta
And most likely, the S6 AP4 one will be updated to ignore cover...

I'd expect cost to be +80 pts for the ability, using the highest cost option. Then they'll slap that on a 40+ pt IC, so the Fleet Officer will cost something like 125 pts. You're going to pay 125+ pts for a T3 W3 Sv5+ model without a Land Raider to stick him in? *Really*?

For comparison's sake, how much does the Space Marine Captain pay for his one-use S10 plate? Of course, this theoretical ability wouldn't be the same, I'm just wondering.

Do you also assume they'll keep the DH/WH version's targeting rules, or will they simply count it as a regular artillery barrage?

the Fleet Officer will get some sort of additioanl ability (unless the status of fleet officer is just an upgrade you buy for your regular CO), as a model that existed essentially as a "kill me" sign

As for your guesstimated cost, I wouldn't dismiss it straight away,

Plus, since you can't model an orbital strike, there's no great commitment required to fielding one, so trying it out for giggles now and then would be eminently feasible.

A Space Marine Captain is worth nearly 100 pts to begin with, so the incremental value of his single Orbital Barrage is only worth 10-20 pts of his total cost. In the case of a Fleet Officer, nearly all of his value is wrapped up in his Orbital Barrages.

I would suspect that GW will remove the "choose a terrain" bit, because it's an unnecessary complication that slows and restricts play unevenly depending strongly on terrain. For example, if you have a road that runs the length of the board, or a river that forks, that is very different from isolated pockets. And what of GW's "lava boards" - "I target the lava..." = target anywhere.

I don't know how they will rep the Fleet Officer, but I would guess he's likely to be an Officer Advisor, similar to a Commissar. If he has a big target on his chest, that's not very different from existing play... He's merely the easiest of several non-Scoring, 100+pt Ordnance units to kill.

Not having the actual rules, it's hard to say what he'll cost. But if he's the walking embodiment of a DH / WH strike, then the guessed points cost is probably within +/- 25% (I can't see it below 100 pts, nor above 150 pts).

Not having a model for Inquisitional Orbital Strike is *exactly* the reason why the Fleet Officer exists - if he's there, you know that Orbital Strike is present!

Agamemnon2 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The CCWs are there because they look good on the model, but from a practical standpoint for what they actually *do* in-game when given to Guardsmen, PWs should be +5 pts, and PFs +10 pts.

Similarly, Commissars get lots of models because GW's sculptors like to sculpt them, not because they are useful.

The models have always been overarmed because of visuals. ... Ideally, the officer should be recognizeable as an officer by something other than his giant metal hand, too,

I can't really blame the GW guys for wanting to sculpt commissars, they have a pretty strong visual identity, more so than plain "senior officer". Which is why I hate the metal Cadian officers, and rather like the Commissar models.

Ideally, the Officers simply have peaked caps...

The old metal Cadians paint nicely as Commissars, you know... I have one.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Ideally, the Officers simply have peaked caps...

The old metal Cadians paint nicely as Commissars, you know... I have one.

Peaked cap+pistol would be the bare minimum for me (the guy who's leading a whole army around shouldn't have to drag around a rifle or a potentially lethal plasmathrower). What really makes an officer ought to be the epaulets, medals, pose and attitude.

At the last count, I owned four Commissars on foot (old one with sword+powerfist, new one with book+powerfist, Gaunt, plastic conversion) and two of my tanks are commanded by Commissars (though only the Baneblade has rules for it, alas). I'm definitely a fan of the look. Eventually I'll probably get the other two variants as well, and Yarrick.

I'm happy about new commissar models... and that's about it. These rumors make me grumpy. I'm currently fielding the commissar model w/ bolt pistol and crop as my Commanding Officer. I've painted the tip of his crop scorpion green to represent the power crop.

Ideally if they followed suit with the space marine codex, units should simply have what they should have. That means that those officers would gain the power sword for free, rather than having a frivolous points cost that simply allows people to avoid it all together. If the guy by all rights should have an item of wargear as a badge of office, then give him it free and make the incremental adjustment to overall points. That means a ~5 point upgrade not 10-15. Those swords are just too damn expensive in the current codex. This goes along with the last few marine codexes giving everyone frag and krak grenades. I mean honestly, when you're a ludicrously well equipped supersoldier with your own forge world backing you you are going to have the damn grenades. Upper level guard would work the same way, with rarer equipment used as a badge of office that they should have (as per the fluff).

@Aga: For Commissars, I have:
- old Mordian Captain, converted
- female Commissar
- classic PF Commissar

I wonder how fieldable they will be next edition...

Alpharius wrote:

bryantsbears wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:So rather than losing all our Doctrines and getting a bunch of special characters that dramatically alter our force we lose Doctrines and get a bunch of mundane no-named characters that dramatically alter our force.

We're all heard the line "A rose by any other name...", right?

BYE

While I dislike the loss of the doctrines, we knew it was coming. I'm just glad, that if the rumors are correct, that we're getting a no-named character that I don't have to "count-as" to fit in with my army.

I'll take a higher priced Paratroops Officer than Major Perry Troops, who i have to "count as."

It's not ideal, but it could be worse.

Even though there really is minimal (no?) difference between that and "counts as"...

Well besides the 80 points of wargear SC already come with that does jacks___ .

I am hoping that they give IG Officers real IG wargear, stuff that makes them better *Leaders*, you know medals that make their men fight better, get first turn, pick mission, ect ect.

Oh man, you've got the female one. I'm jealous now...

@Ed: For a Guard player, she's on of the few "must-haves" in any Guard collection.