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To deconstruct the above:

JohnHwangDD: Supposition.
Peredyne: Empirical evidence.
JohnHwangDD: Defeated, attempts to reframe the issue in order to be right. Also known as 'moving the goal posts'.
Le Grognard: ONOZ! 23!

I think Le Grognard wins that argument.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:As someone who goes to Vegas from time to time, hotel room *PRICES* are far cheaper than they've been in quite some time.

That is, Vegas hotel rooms follow basic Econ 101 with a a classic reduction in price following a reduction in demand, assuming a fixed supply.

Also, Econ 101 point for you: PRICE isn't COST. PRICE is what someone is willing to pay. COST is what the seller has to pay. I submit that the cost of the Vegas infrastructure (mortgages, leases, staff, electricity, etc.) is relatively fixed whether they are full or empty. It's not like they can cancel a show due to reduced ticket sales. Nor can they shut down a hotel due to reduced room sales. Sure, they can cut hours to some extent, but that isn't going to save so much on costs which need to be recouped. So, better to price cheaply to get some revenue than to hold price and get nothing.

This is exactly right -- classic economics.

If the seller is paying a high rate of fixed costs, say £100 per room per night for infrastructure, insurance, electricity etc, then he is better off to sell that room for £5 a night rather than £0.

Lower the cost of a kit? Can anyone with a business background and a decent knowledge of GW even imagine a set of circumstances that would have to occur to cause them to conclude that it was a good idea to lower a price? Besides imminent phase-out of the model anyway?

Jesus h christ. the plastic kits ARE ALREADY cheap.

Except for the Termies. $50? WTF? They should be $35 or also include the Assault sprue.

Yep, the termie prices are a warcrime. I imagine they are selling even better since the release of AoBR.

look a ork burna and loota set costs 15 us in my mall that means you have spare parts and other stuff to make more

would now be a good time to mention that Tamiya are apparently about to put their prices up by 25% across the board as a comparison?

would now be a good time to say that ive heard a nasty rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

tonytidus916 wrote:would now be a good time to say that ive heard a nasty rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

This is a very plain out lie. the cost to make an AoBR box is FAR greater then 1.80$, They need to get the plastic for all the minis, pay for the molding, the printing of the book Plus the dice, templates and box it self. Add in shipping to get it sent to all there shops and you are looking at a price around 25-30 easy, now before you all start crying "O! Thats still a 30$ profit! greedy bastards!" you have to add in there cost per store pluse pay for red shirts.

Also, compared to other companys out there GW is making a small margin of profit for every box sold.

I think we will see prices drop as the world economy keeps dropping, or we will see GW go under and die a slow and painful death.

wyomingfox wrote:So, the question I got is: has anyone heard about any further price reductions (other than the previous price announcement in December)?

As an owner of a small injection molding company, I have notice that spot prices on Polypropylene have dropped over 50% since their highs in August with Polyethylene and Polystyrene showing similar trends. Prices in plastics have reach lows unheard of in years .

LoL....They will just pay for the molds faster. Plus do they bring prices back up when the economy rebounds and plastic prices go up?

Cheers

JokerGod wrote:

tonytidus916 wrote:would now be a good time to say that ive heard a nasty rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

This is a very plain out lie. the cost to make an AoBR box is FAR greater then 1.80$, They need to get the plastic for all the minis, pay for the molding, the printing of the book Plus the dice, templates and box it self. Add in shipping to get it sent to all there shops and you are looking at a price around 25-30 easy, now before you all start crying "O! Thats still a 30$ profit! greedy bastards!" you have to add in there cost per store pluse pay for red shirts.

Also, compared to other companys out there GW is making a small margin of profit for every box sold.

I think we will see prices drop as the world economy keeps dropping, or we will see GW go under and die a slow and painful death.

i grant that 1.80 might be a little low realistically but realise that $60 is the retail cost and gw costs its "customers" aka the stores 55% of that for a markup of 45% for the store.... so 55% of $60 is $33 dollars charged by gw to the store
then if you conclude that they are marking things up as much as they expect the stores to (not an unreasonable conclusion)
that makes the projected cost $18 roughly
thats just assuming they are profiting logically and on a normal standard as opposed to the gouging weve all learned to enjoy from them over the years
besides, they have made and sold more aobr box sets than any other set in history (educated guess)
think about how many have been bought just by your local gaming group and multiply from there if you dont believe it.
the cost to produce one now for them has dramatically been reduced as they have long ago paid for the cost of producing the sprue and models to cast.
another factor being that they have moved a great deal of their production inhouse as opposed to the paying other companies to do so from the past..... this makes their margins even bigger and more impressive..... and even closer to $1.80
completely asside from what ive actually heard from an insider at gw i would project their cost of the box set to be in the ballpark of $5 pre shipment and maybe $7 after shipment and thats a very generously inflated amount over what ive heard from a source
its just math buddy and im curious to see yours if it happens to conflict with this.
~tony~

tonytidus916 wrote:

JokerGod wrote:

tonytidus916 wrote:would now be a good time to say that ive heard a nasty rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

This is a very plain out lie. the cost to make an AoBR box is FAR greater then 1.80$, They need to get the plastic for all the minis, pay for the molding, the printing of the book Plus the dice, templates and box it self. Add in shipping to get it sent to all there shops and you are looking at a price around 25-30 easy, now before you all start crying "O! Thats still a 30$ profit! greedy bastards!" you have to add in there cost per store pluse pay for red shirts.

Also, compared to other companys out there GW is making a small margin of profit for every box sold.

I think we will see prices drop as the world economy keeps dropping, or we will see GW go under and die a slow and painful death.

i grant that 1.80 might be a little low realistically but realise that $60 is the retail cost and gw costs its "customers" aka the stores 55% of that for a markup of 45% for the store.... so 55% of $60 is $33 dollars charged by gw to the store
then if you conclude that they are marking things up as much as they expect the stores to (not an unreasonable conclusion)
that makes the projected cost $18 roughly
thats just assuming they are profiting logically and on a normal standard as opposed to the gouging weve all learned to enjoy from them over the years
besides, they have made and sold more aobr box sets than any other set in history (educated guess)
think about how many have been bought just by your local gaming group and multiply from there if you dont believe it.
the cost to produce one now for them has dramatically been reduced as they have long ago paid for the cost of producing the sprue and models to cast.
another factor being that they have moved a great deal of their production inhouse as opposed to the paying other companies to do so from the past..... this makes their margins even bigger and more impressive..... and even closer to $1.80
completely asside from what ive actually heard from an insider at gw i would project their cost of the box set to be in the ballpark of $5 pre shipment and maybe $7 after shipment and thats a very generously inflated amount over what ive heard from a source
its just math buddy and im curious to see yours if it happens to conflict with this.
~tony~

I'm sorry, I use something know as Logic, and reality. not just numbers I pull out of my arse and claim is from an "inside source"

It will cost them more then 5$ to get the plastic to make the spruse in the box, now you have to add in the cost in electricity to run the machinery to cast it, plus the pay for the workers that over see it. Add in the fact that have to have the books printed by another company and then ship it.

And your not using math, your using made up numbers so you can try to plaster GW has the big bad guy with out thinking with logic, if the lot of you would stop believing in every little internet lie you hear roaming around about how GW marks there crap up so much threads like this would not get polluted with garbage hate towards GW.

gotta agree with tony, i've spoken to GW staff as well and they all go on about how cheap the kit is to produce,

one of the main reasons is because all the models are snap fit they are easier to produce.

in regards to the books they aren't exactly the best are they? They do the job but they don't stand up to the big hardback one, i only use my little rulebooks for tournament games as its easier to carry around a hall than the BRB

tonytidus916 wrote:rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

Not possible. Shipping alone is going to be more than $1.80. Stop asking idiot redshirts about business matters.
____

JokerGod wrote:Also, compared to other companys out there GW is making a small margin of profit for every box sold.

Actually, based on their content, there's a fair chance that things like AoBR and BfSP are sold at cost, or even slightly below cost...

GW could very well be using the "free" razor / pricey razorblade model with those boxed sets as the "free" razors. It's not like video game consoles aren't heavily-subsidized at launch to the tune of 50% or more.
____

tonytidus916 wrote:$60 is the retail cost and gw costs its "customers" aka the stores 55% of that for a markup of 45% for the store.... so 55% of $60 is $33 dollars charged by gw to the store

they have made and sold more aobr box sets than any other set in history (educated guess)

Look up the words "loss leader" in Google before you make too much pronouncement on the cost structure of AoBR.

You are very uneducated to make such a guess. The top-selling (GW) boxed set is almost without question going to be the Space Marine Tactical box, followed closely by the Space Marine Rhino.

not only are the models snap together but alot of the figures or rereleases of previous models
some ARE new like the warboss, the deffkoptas and the sm captain, etc.
but that is another way to cut costs is to use prepaid for model designs.
the main point that im making here is not that gw is an evil empire of doom, but that they are by no means a charity and they surely make their money
~tony~

Le Grognard wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:the world is going to end in 2012 anyway so it doesn't really matter.

ONOZ! 23!

the problem with that is that both are 5.. And there is nothing supernatural about 5.. Unless you are into pentagrams...

Rargh wrote:would now be a good time to mention that Tamiya are apparently about to put their prices up by 25% across the board as a comparison?

That is because Tamiya is a Japanese company and the Yen has strengthened a lot against other currencies in the past six months.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

tonytidus916 wrote:rumor that gw actually only has a cost of $1.80us
to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores
just what ive heard from an insider
~tony~

Not possible. Shipping alone is going to be more than $1.80. Stop asking idiot redshirts about business matters.

____

JokerGod wrote:Also, compared to other companys out there GW is making a small margin of profit for every box sold.

Actually, based on their content, there's a fair chance that things like AoBR and BfSP are sold at cost, or even slightly below cost...

GW could very well be using the "free" razor / pricey razorblade model with those boxed sets as the "free" razors. It's not like video game consoles aren't heavily-subsidized at launch to the tune of 50% or more.
____

tonytidus916 wrote:$60 is the retail cost and gw costs its "customers" aka the stores 55% of that for a markup of 45% for the store.... so 55% of $60 is $33 dollars charged by gw to the store

they have made and sold more aobr box sets than any other set in history (educated guess)

Look up the words "loss leader" in Google before you make too much pronouncement on the cost structure of AoBR.

You are very uneducated to make such a guess. The top-selling (GW) boxed set is almost without question going to be the Space Marine Tactical box, followed closely by the Space Marine Rhino.

so here i am again explaining myself for the hell of it since some people seem to not listen or simply dont pay attention to the details
(first) - when i stated that they have made and sold more aobr than anything else in its history (educated guess) i dont think you took in to account that first the sm tactical and the sm rhino box sets have both evolved over the years and thus are different box sets each time with the same name/ relative contents, however if you are thinking they are essentially the same then that is a different way to access the situation and in that case i would agree with you, but regardless i was making an educated guess in that matter.
(second) - the shipping can be more yes but it can also be cheaper for them per unit depending on how they are shipped. for example alliance is the largest us distributor of gw product and if they ship 10,000 of them to alliance in one shipment it will cost them a lot less per unit than if they ship them one by one. also it is completely understandable and possible that the person i heard this from assumed shipping was in the cost without too much thought or consideration for this cost so just for the sake of argument lets assume this $1.80 is a production cost without shipping....thats still really really cheap and somehow still possible in my opinion
(third) - the chances of games workshop putting out a loss leader box set all of a sudden when it has never done so ever before is pretty rediculous.... its not like video games at all in the fact that we can all play 40k without aobr while you need a PS3 in order to play those games, thus the point is not valid and it wouldnt make any sense to do this aside from the possibility of new gamers who in my experience arent the target audience so much as the current gamers/customers are. gw relies on its fan base and word of mouth from them to sell its product, otherwise you would see billboards and commercials about 40k/fantasy/lotr during the superbowl or during tv shows, which we dont.
this concludes the ridiculous explaining of the logic envolved with my statements
tune in next time when these statements are misread/misunderstood also
~tony~

@tony: When you learn to type like an adult, you will be treated as such. That means word capitalization (there's a couple buttons on your keyboard labeled "SHIFT" - use them), paragraph breaks, spell properly, and so on.

1. I'll simply focus on the Classic Rhino, sold during RT (IG could also use), 2E, and 3E. Or the 3E / 4E SM Tactical set, which wasn't recut until 5E. Those sold in huge numbers.

2. *You* said "$1.80us to make and ship an aobr box set to the local stores". That's production, shipping, in local store quantities - not a container of 10,000. I believe that the actual cost of AoBR is well over $30 when all costs are allocated.

3. GW has a long history of discounting bulk sets. It's just that they thought they could get away from it for a few years. And FWIW, I play 40k without AoBR - I bought the $50 hardback rulebook.

When you stop being so "rediculous", I'll start taking you more seriously.

H.B.M.C. wrote:To deconstruct the above:

JohnHwangDD: Supposition.
Peredyne: Empirical evidence.
JohnHwangDD: Defeated, attempts to reframe the issue in order to be right. Also known as 'moving the goal posts'.
Le Grognard: ONOZ! 23!

I think Le Grognard wins that argument.

BYE

Can you do one for Tony? Plz!!?!!?!?!?!?!ONEONEONE!!

so as opposed to worrying about the arguement you are so greatly hung up on and (how could i ever be right about gw making money)and as opposed to simply thinking my opinion is wrong and leaving it there you get all tied up on capital letters and punctuation?!?!
talk about altering the topic to make yourself right and just simply being an a$$hole
ill work on my typing gramar while you work on being an adult and treating others as such
~tony~
p.s.
f@ck you

Swearing won't make you any friends..

Might as well and grab the popcorn and watch the drama unfold .....


Seriously though, I worked for GW in various positions and can tell you that it is indeed correct that the mark up is(was) around 55%. I was not w/ GW when the new 40k starter came out so can't say anything about that. That is why websites can over 20-35% discount and still make a profit.

exactly..... call the 800 number and press the extention that takes you to the reps that are in charge of sales for people interested in becoming a "store" so to speak and they will tell you first hand that the charge is 55% of retail for the store then deduce the markup from there...
ill be honest i got a little upset and for the cursing i appologize and will bite my tongue as best as possible
in the future
id like to see for both myself as well as anybody else to at least try and be respectful so that we can all better our mutual hobby/game by posting rumors and insight without all the drama and b.s.
i dont know you and you dont know me so lets try not to critisize so much about how "adult" we are or how well we type/spell in a post and keep it on subject and about what we have heard or think and why/how and let everyone else deduce their thoughts from there
we wont get anything done by arguing semantics and certainly not by arguing about capital letters and pressing a shift button
~tony~

Actually tonytidus916, it is in the rules that you should type okayish. We're not asking for Shakespeare.

There is a point to this. It is much harder to read long postings like yours when it can't be seen where sentences end. However good your argument, it is of no use if people won't read it because they find it too hard.

It doesn't take much effort to put in the caps and paragraphs -- please give it a go!

To reinforce that point, I've just had to clear two complaints about your typing. Nothing to do with the logic, just the lack of readability.

Like I said in the message posted earlier Ill try and work on my typing and he can work on treating other people who post with respect. I dont think the way ive typed has been perfect by any means but considering more than half of my posts are from my iphone and on the go, I dont think its half bad. Regardless Ill try but only because "JohnHwangDD" got on his knees and begged me so sweet and nice k?
~tony~

It will be appreciated.

Thank you.