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604 Mane of Hair
941 Vampire
970 Weapon Master

So, I'm a Vampire with fabulous hair who can handle a sword, or

159 Bestial Face
95 Bestial Face
4 Acid Excretion

I'm a guy who sweats acid from his incredibly beastly face

Chrysaor686 wrote:I got:


Also, notice the extremely low chance you have of creating an actual halfway cool Daemonic Name. The fact that your Daemon can actually receive the name 'Taintlick Manfondle' is just wrong on so many levels. Unless of course, he's a follower of slaanesh.

I was laughing for about ten minutes at 'taintlick manfondle'... If ever I start a slaaneshi army, thats going to be the Keeper of Secrets' name

And we’re back with Kid Kyoto’s award-seeking review of Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness!




With most of the rules out of the way the book now has Fantasy army lists.





However this section is no more playable than the last since most of these units have random mutations that affect their profiles and presumably must be modeled. So if you ever wanted to make up 120 half-Chaos Thug/half-camel mutants this is the game for you!

Unlike the current Chaos books these armies offered everything, daemons, beastmen, undead, humans and of course the Chaos Dwarf Bazuka.



With that done the book now enters a very interesting phase, the Dark Millennium chapter. Although the original Rogue Trader book had warp creatures and renegade marines it made no mention of the Chaos Gods, the Traitor Legions and other aspects that are now an integral part of the game. There had been hints of them of course. Horus showed up in Adeptus Titanicus (though the Horus Heresy was mainly an excuse for GW to make only 1 set of molds for both factions). But GW had never defined what was this Chaos they kept talking about. Now they did.






Even incidents that were only fleshed out YEARS later were mentioned in this intial account.




I mean here we have the Isstvan massacre and the flight of the Eisenstein 20 year before the Black Library made whole novels out of them.

Even at this early stage Chaos looked a heckuva lot more fun than the Imperium.





They also started sprinkling in the ominous quotes that made early GW books so much fun.









The nine Chaos Legions show up here for the first time as nothing more than banner designs and symbols.





And the Chaos Marines are heavily mutated creatures.






The World Eaters, Emperor’s Children and Black Legion all get army lists. Just as unplayable as the Fantasy lists.















Our old buddy Fabius Bile gets a brief nod.



Chaos marines and warbands mirror the rules for Fantasy, even with skeleton champions and mutations.




Best of all this new foe of the Imperium also warrents creating an army list for the Inquisition and the Grey Knights right here in Realms of Chaos.








The mighty psycannon gets rules in this book.



There are some interesting ideas there that were quickly abandonded. For example it’s made clear that only the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights are trusted with the knowledge that Chaos even exists. Any other forces who come into contact with it are mind-scrubbed (reduced to infants) or just killed.



Obviously for the sake of drama and reappearing characters this had to be quickly and quietly dropped. I like to think it’s a law the Imperium still has on the books but is not longer able to enforce.






Best of all, we have a lot of background on the Emperor! And his kids!




The Sensei, if you don’t know, are immortal children or descendents of the Emperor who tap into the long-lost pure part of his soul. This is the part of himself he had to cast out in order to ruthlessly kill Horus in the final battle. But since energy cannot be destroyed it still lurks in the warp as the Star Child, the last hope of humanity.

They of course were quickly forgotten and killed off-stage in 3rd edition.

(sniff)

Let us close with a portrate of the hard-working writers and artists who brought us this wonderful, wonderful book.



So, final analysis, is this any good?

Well as a game no. Simply no. Not at all. It’s too random, too unbalanced and impossible to do with WYSIWYG miniatures.

Now I would love to do a Realms of Chaos D&D campaign where the party is evil and descending into madness and mutation. I would love even more to have a video game where your crimes determine your mutation (with a healthy dose of randomness). Think of it as GTO meets Everquest. And don’t forget to give me my dump truck full of cash for the idea.

Anyway so as a game. No.

As a fluff and art book, yes. Is it worth $100-200 on ebay for the art and fluff? Well that’s a question for your wallet. I could spare it, not everyone can.

Finally as a look at GW history it’s well worth the money. 20 years later GW is still mining this book for ideas.

And well they should, it really is that great.

So thanks for reading and thanks for sharing other memories of this book. I’ll be looking at the companion volume Realms of Chaos: Lost and Damned in a little while and then turning them into an article so if you have anything you’d like to share on these books please chime in.

I don't think that anyone ever (or was expected to) use all of the rules in the RoC books. It would take years to play just s small campaign. Another thing to remember about WYSIWIG (at least in those days) is that regiments didn't have to be as strictly WYSIWIG as they are now. I know that when I started playing WHFB, you only had to have half of the models in a unit WYSIWIG, and I assume that was the case back in 3rd edition as well.

But yes, they're totally impractical. Completely inelegant.

I managed to get my copies for around US$8 each, not long ago, so bargains exist if you search persistently. I wouldn't pay $100 apiece for them, but they're very nice indeed.

Very nice indeed.

I am (have) swiping loads of the pics you scanned in.

To clarify a point : The original Adeptus Titanicus and Space marine game were originally intended to feature an Imperium force and another one-- orks if memory serves. However they spent too much/cocked up the R & D budget just making the Imperium forces which would have left them with just half a game. Then some bright spark dredged up the reference to the Horus Heresy from 1st edition and voila ! Project saved and the rest is now history.

I used to have both of the realms of chaos books, but I sold them when I was about 16 and needed the cash. Dammit! Would love to have a read through them again. They really did set the bar for supplements and I only wish that GW would labour some much love on a project again. I remember doing a 'sponsored silence' at school, taking one of these books with me and it being the easiest and most fun 10 or so hours at school!

Dear god, is that guy wearing a white hood?

I like the old bloodletters, and how they went back to that design for the new models. Very obviously inspired by the Alien though.

Gotta second the thinking about WSYIWYG. That load of bull was something that was introduced with 3rd edition, in an attempt to increase revenues, and streamline the game. Doing proxies is not hard with a few dozen models, when it starts getting above 4 or so squads it starts getting a bit silly, but then everything was small in RT.

I also hear you about the randomness of everything. FWIW, ALL of the army lists were very random, sometimes resulting in games that were won in rolls that were not necessarily witnessed by your opponent, if you rolled up the right gear.

Really RT needed either a very co-operative opponent, or a GM. Either way, you needed something to get around the sticky bits.

The REAL joy of the game was the strangeness, the alien approach, all the really interesting little bitz here and there. It's also pretty clear that this is a very much a work of passion, by gamers, for gamers. For better or worse, GW has become very corporate over the years. The games a LOT more polished, balanced, and playable, but it's sadly missing some of passion, fun, and zaniness.

OTOH, ANYBODY who whines about game balance with the current system has NO IDEA WTF they're talking about compared to the old rules. There were holes you could pilot a ring world through.

But it was a ton of fun, which is the important thing.

(One other thing, the quotes bit is in the RT rule book, so it was there from the first.)

Thanks again for a lovely trip down memory lane. I'm awaiting your Retro Review of the Realm of Chaos. One of the books is clearly superior to the other, though I can't remember which.

40k3 and WFB6 pushed WYSIWYG because there were too many players who'd put down a pile of nearly identical-looking Skeletons and claim they were a Space Marine army. Or they would use ordinary SM as Commanders and Characters. And wargear and roles would move around willy-nilly.

With that as a background, WYSIWYG makes a lot of sense and is a great help to the opponent, rather than remembering which skeleton is supposed to be which special model.

Pariah Press wrote:

I managed to get my copies for around US$8 each, not long ago, so bargains exist if you search persistently. I wouldn't pay $100 apiece for them, but they're very nice indeed.

WOW

Was that $7 for the knife, $1 for soap to wash the previous owner's blood off yourself?

Thankyou KK.

(Stands up from swivel chair for the first time in three hours and starts clapping. Office looks scared!!!)

Thankyou!

Two things I have noticed (and you probably have too)

P4NC4K3 wrote:Two things I have noticed (and you probably have too)

DOn't miss his buddy the Chaos Inquisitor.



Chaos Inquisitor has to be a pretty easy job. I mean "See those guys in blue, they work for the Imperium!"

Then you go have a beer.

wow thank you

Okay, so I'm NOT going crazy. I could've sworn that the Nurgle symbol looked like a penis but then I just told myself that I needed to be a little less perverted.

Hehehe, I was right! -goes into corner in fetal position rocking back and forth laughing like a maniac-

If I could get this book for $60 or less nowadays, I would buy it faster than you could say "heretic". Maybe a swap meet or something. And without my mom seeing. (I'd be crucified if she ever got sight of this book.)

Vladsimpaler wrote:
If I could get this book for $60 or less nowadays, I would buy it faster than you could say "heretic". Maybe a swap meet or something. And without my mom seeing. (I'd be crucified if she ever got sight of this book.)

Yeah, that's the biggie. When these came out we were all in high school, and my buddy who had them was VERY careful about hiding them from his parents. Even now I think they'd raise some eyebrows.

I also wonder about the hooded figures. I'd really like to think that they don't mean the same thing in the UK, and it's all an innocent mistake. IIRC, the Klan all claim to be wizards or something goofy, so maybe that's what it's trying to evoke, and they're both drawn from some much older inspiration.....

Regardless, I AM glad to see the KKK stuff has since quietly dropped out of sight.

JohnHwangDD wrote:40k3 and WFB6 pushed WYSIWYG because there were too many players who'd put down a pile of nearly identical-looking Skeletons and claim they were a Space Marine army. Or they would use ordinary SM as Commanders and Characters. And wargear and roles would move around willy-nilly.

With that as a background, WYSIWYG makes a lot of sense and is a great help to the opponent, rather than remembering which skeleton is supposed to be which special model.

Sure I understand, but really WYSIWYG was a pretty silly idea with the old RT rules being in the shape they were in. Sort of like washing the dishes after the hurricane had torn the roof off the house. Having somebody "slide around" stuff on your was like to low down on the list of evil, cheating, beardy sh!t they could do it wasn't worth worrying about, so the rules in the Chaos books weren't that big a deal.

Sure, tho RT-era stuff like StD didn't have WYSIWYG at the time they were published, at least not as we understand it army context today.

My god I looooove those old chaos marine models. Not actually well made - but such cool style

Kid_Kyoto wrote:WOW

Was that $7 for the knife, $1 for soap to wash the previous owner's blood off yourself?

LOL. No. I just try to buy books from bookstores rather than eBay, when I can. It frequently pays off. Mind you, I had to search for several years to find those bargains.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Chaos Inquisitor has to be a pretty easy job. I mean "See those guys in blue, they work for the Imperium!"

Then you go have a beer.

LOL. I wonder if Imperial guys infiltrate Chaos Cults from within and corrupt them to to ways of Law

BigToof wrote:Regardless, I AM glad to see the KKK stuff has since quietly dropped out of sight.

Or has it?

BigToof wrote:
I'm sort of sad, but mostly happy to see the charts go. With the marine army list it was possible to pay X points and roll on a chart that could give you something incredible, or something really lame. Same thing with most of the lists. In fact that was one of THE sources of cheating under the old system, since most people didn't want to watch their opponent make several dozen die rolls to see what his boyz were armed with. So usually people just fudged that a bit. And it was impossible to say that the rolls were even close to correctly costed, since it was SO random. I'd much rather just pay the points, and buy what I want, you know? Much fairer all around.

Bang on.

I've always liked Tzeentch but anything larger than warband was a chore. 1d6-3 Chaos Attributes per marine was a chore and playing WYSIWYG.... not bloody likely. That meant mark every dude individually and make sure you knew who was in CC (every guy attacked individually). The lists were no way fair and can you even imagine organizing a tournament? Referees have to be there 4 hours early while the Orks and Chaos roll up their armies. Then you have the guys that travelled X hours to get there and end up tabling themselves with a spat of lousy mutations.

hmmmm... gives me an idea....

Yeah the hood heads can cause trouble. IIRC they're histrically based on what the Inquistiion actually wore and the KKK and GW are both drawing on the same inspiration. That being said the hoods in my army are red and black, I would never think of doing them in white.

You are quite correct about the inspiration for the hoods, I think they were also "tipping the hat" to Torquemada from 200AD, which was a big influence. picture

Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave !

Thanks for that.

I had this (and a few other rare books - including 1st edition WHFB including the carboard men) that got ruined in a flood.

Still got Warhammer Siege from the time.

Sold a bunch of the original Khorne chaos champions for heaps more than I paid for them back then!

Still have a bunch of old chaos models to ebay at some point.

Units certainly had character back then!

Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I cobbled together a script for running a few of these tables here: http://chaplaingrabthar.agilityhoster.com/

And this seemed the best place to post it.

Here's my output:

Slaves to Darkness Roller

You selected a Lesser Daemon of Tzeentch
Daemonic Name
Your d6 roll was 1

As a follower of Tzeentch, your sacred number is 9

This means that you have 9 rolls on the Daemonic name table

Your true daemonic name is: KW' AA' Y' EO' OE' CC' N'N' OW' A'
Daemonic Use-Name

Your Daemonic Use-Name is: ChewFace
Your Chaos Champion

As a true follower of Chaos, your champion has received 1 gifts from the capricious gods of the warp.
272 Cloven Hooves

Slaves to Darkness Roller

You selected a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch
Daemonic Name
Your 2d6 roll was 11

As a follower of Tzeentch, your sacred number is 9

This means that you have 99 rolls on the Daemonic name table

Your true daemonic name is: BH' DH' G'G' DH' MMMMDA' TH' COG' PH' IR' ZH' DE' COG' PP' BH' UU' Q' TH' Y' EE' AK' G'G' PP' BH' TH' O' EO' BH' N'N' PP' AA' TL' DE' ZH' AO' AR' DU' PP' N'N' EE' AR' MMOA' TL' AK' KS' UL' AA' DH' HH' II' SHFL' ZH' THL' TL' UL' CH' A' KW' SS' GZ' EU' PH' AR' THL' UL' EO' DH' DE' U' KW' EE' AN' U' GZ' PP' AN' Z' TH' CH' DE' Y' AA' SS' AA' HL' FF' BH' ZH' GZ' A' PP' I' DE' ABL' Z' AR'
Daemonic Use-Name

Your Daemonic Use-Name is: BluePinch BileSkull
Your Chaos Champion

As a true follower of Chaos, your champion has received 3 gifts from the capricious gods of the warp.
23 Alcoholism
733 Prehensile Tail
167 Bestial Face

That is f`ing fantastic, I`ll be sure to link to it when I do my article

Nice work, chaplaingrabthar! Let's see what I get.

You selected a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh

Daemonic Name
Your 2d6 roll was 11

As a follower of Slaanesh, your sacred number is 6

This means that you have 66 rolls on the Daemonic name table

Your true daemonic name is: EE' LL' OA' Q' AK' BH' HL' II' IO' OO' BH' Z' UU' BH' ABL' CC' DH' PH' HL' IR' Z' HH' DH' TL' II' FF' RH' IO' ZH' ABL' COG' TH' RH' AN' MMHH' LL' HL' PP' A' DE' MMDE' EE' EU' EO' DU' AN' ABL' FL' HL' TH' UU' AK' KW' ZH' TL' E' II' DE' EE' COG' AA' Q' A' THL'

Daemonic Use-Name
Your Daemonic Use-Name is: LipRotten DeathGross

Your Chaos Champion
As a true follower of Chaos, your champion has received 3 gifts from the capricious gods of the warp.

994 Invent Your Own
788 Rotting Flesh
216 Brightly Patterned Skin


Invent my own, eh? I'm going to go with Arm Mohawks.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:That is f`ing fantastic, I`ll be sure to link to it when I do my article

Yeah, and if I can 'acquire' the relevant sections of the rulebook, I'll be doing the sub-tables for all the mutations also.

The code is incredibly sloppy, bu then that seems to fight the Rogue Trader / d1000 ethos.

Also, let me know when you do the link to the article, as I may be moving it into a sub-directory of my site, rather than as the homepage.

Hi,

I have a copy of the book for sale on eBay at the moment.

It is in excellent condition. If you are interested then check it out at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230322576665

Thanks

Plc