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When I read the list, my main response was.... "Catachans? Again? WTF, Why?"

Seriously, they are the ugliest plastic kit out there. GW would do well to let it die its slow death and not revisit it. How many Catachan players are out there? 2nd, how many actually NEED a re-cut sprue, let alone a new plastic command squad kit just for our armies of mini-rambos? Couldn't GW just have gone and released some catachan metal figs for a command squad in blisters?

When you actually take the time to consider how labour intensive, and expensive, it is to create new plastic sprues, why waste the time on gakky sculpts? I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if the option was for new re-cut plastic catachan squads and a command squad versus plastic greatcoat guard, greatcoats would win OVERWHELMINGLY.

Just a really odd WTF moment there for mini releases on GW's part. Still has me wondering, even after my rant. Totally F-king Bizarre.

Remember, the world is larger than just Topeka Kansas in regards to how many Guard players field Catachan models.

Catachans were my first plastics in the hobby and still dear to my heart, horrible scaling and muscular arms aside. I think they deserve a plastic command squad as much as the Cadians, this might just be GW trying to breathe new life into their Catachan range for all we know. Besides, we might get a Captain J. Rambo who allows you to field an army of Stallone-crazed jungle stalkers.

For every 'the matrix was cool' greatcoat guardsman out there, there is at least one 'first blood was cool' jungle guardsman hiding in the 'green'

I personally feel that, stylistically, greatcoats are a little bit played out. I think a retro turn to jungle warfare is hip, from an artistic point of view.

Also, keep in mind the possibility that with platoon wide special rules, GW may be encouraging you to buy cadians for standard platoons, and catachans to represent infiltrating platoons. Or they could be used to represent veteran platoons. Having at least two different model sets will help people who aren't interested in heavy converting/counts as to represent the unique platoon upgrades their army has.

Heck no, I want a Tropic Thunder Guard with Tugg Speedman at command!

Yea plastic valkyerie for the guards men.
alll guards men praise the emporer
none for
WHOOO HOOOO
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YEAaaaaaaaaaaa

LittleLeadMen wrote:When I read the list, my main response was.... "Catachans? Again? WTF, Why?"

Seriously, they are the ugliest plastic kit out there. GW would do well to let it die its slow death and not revisit it. How many Catachan players are out there? 2nd, how many actually NEED a re-cut sprue, let alone a new plastic command squad kit just for our armies of mini-rambos? Couldn't GW just have gone and released some catachan metal figs for a command squad in blisters?

When you actually take the time to consider how labour intensive, and expensive, it is to create new plastic sprues, why waste the time on gakky sculpts? I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if the option was for new re-cut plastic catachan squads and a command squad versus plastic greatcoat guard, greatcoats would win OVERWHELMINGLY.

Just a really odd WTF moment there for mini releases on GW's part. Still has me wondering, even after my rant. Totally F-king Bizarre.

I am a Catachan player. I think their models have more character then most of the other models out there. The regular Cadians show no character, they are just cut and paste infantry. Nothing special or exciting about them. They did a good job at pulling off jungle fighters with the Catachans and they have a great backstory. I am sure there are plenty more Catachan players out there. We are just hiding.

Jive Professor wrote:

dietrich wrote:Looking at the past several releases, GW generally does one week that is mostly plastic and one week that is mostly blisters and the two releases are 2 weeks apart.

Who knows, maybe the psyker is a plastic multi-part kit like the WFB wizards and SM commander.

True, they might be increasing his loadout options and/or role in the Guard army.

Perhaps it's not a plastic psyker kit and instead its a $15 psyker special character who's really (x2) good and a must-take in every IG army--I'm thinking rules somewhere near a 3++, Eternal Warrior, and re-deploying D6 enemy units before the game--even though he's the only Psyker allowed to act as an IG general in the entire 41st millennium!

No, that new psyker gets some special new psychic power where in any psychic phase both players roll a dice and on a 2+ the guard player wins the game.

Most likely no random powers that are slightly more powerful than those of the current psyker.

dietrich wrote:Looking at the past several releases, GW generally does one week that is mostly plastic and one week that is mostly blisters and the two releases are 2 weeks apart.

Who knows, maybe the psyker is a plastic multi-part kit like the WFB wizards and SM commander.

if this is true

ZOMG CONVERSIONS!!!

Shouldn't we already have seen all the new units by now? I mean, they'll be released in what, two month and we have seen nothing? There must be a second wave with lots of minis or the guard players around the world got seriously bent over. I'm thinking ork style second wave here...

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:Shouldn't we already have seen all the new units by now? I mean, they'll be released in what, two month and we have seen nothing? There must be a second wave with lots of minis or the guard players around the world got seriously bent over. I'm thinking ork style second wave here...

Personally, my money is on "IG got screwed again". I don't believe we'll get nearly as much new stuff as has been speculated, nor will it be nearly as good as it should.

may is 4 months away. I think i read somewhere that GW is using a 3 month preview/rumour window now, instead of the previous 6 month window. It certainly seems that way. My bet is we'll have a deluge of info at the start of march

Wasn't the russ getting an all in one box? what happened to the all plastic hellhound?

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:Shouldn't we already have seen all the new units by now? I mean, they'll be released in what, two month and we have seen nothing? There must be a second wave with lots of minis or the guard players around the world got seriously bent over. I'm thinking ork style second wave here...

Personally, my money is on "IG got screwed again". I don't believe we'll get nearly as much new stuff as has been speculated, nor will it be nearly as good as it should.

Ah, I love the sight of pessimism, give you hope doesn't it?

BrookM wrote:Remember, the world is larger than just Topeka Kansas in regards to how many Guard players field Catachan models.

Catachans were my first plastics in the hobby and still dear to my heart, horrible scaling and muscular arms aside. I think they deserve a plastic command squad as much as the Cadians, this might just be GW trying to breathe new life into their Catachan range for all we know. Besides, we might get a Captain J. Rambo who allows you to field an army of Stallone-crazed jungle stalkers.

But my point still stands. They don't need a recut sprue, taking up valuable resources from newer, better sculpted projects for the IG. They already have a box and heavy teams. Why the effort to recut them into sprues/boxes of 10, when there wasn't really a pressing need (hobby-wise)? Catachan players would still have their beloved rambos, and they could get a command squad in metal. Be honest, given their niche, why do they really need a full new plastic kit? The massive Catachan fan club could easily be supported in a much, much more cost effective way, and as a result, free up resources to release new minis for IG players.

It's the questionable use of resource distribution that has me scratching my head.

With regard to your Topeka Kansas quip, I play in NYC. There is one of the largest concentrations of 40k and fantasy gamers in the entire US in this city. Additionally, I've played a lot in Baltimore at the bunker, and every month or so when travelling to Los Angeles at the Westminster and in Santa Monica. There certainly are not a lot of catachan armies in these circles. Again, this is personal anecdote, and I'm not saying that people don't play (or deserve to play) catachans. It's just a weird decision to resuscitate the line in lieu of overwhelming gamer desire to have plastic greatcoats. They could have easily supported both in an effective way.

Shep wrote:For every 'the matrix was cool' greatcoat guardsman out there, there is at least one 'first blood was cool' jungle guardsman hiding in the 'green'

I personally feel that, stylistically, greatcoats are a little bit played out. I think a retro turn to jungle warfare is hip, from an artistic point of view.

Spoken by a guy who has a Vostroyan as his avatar. Greatcoats seem FAR from played out. First, how many can you actually buy? Either crazy expensive FW Krieg, or old timey Valhallans or Steel legion. They can't really be played out when there hasn't been a new release for them in some time. Second, there is a lot of historical precedence in wearing greatcoats among armed services in the world. The Imperial Guard is, at its essence, supposed to be a 40k version of those types of historical antecedents. GW has said as much, many, many times. Catachans, and Cadians, for that matter, do not portray that lineage in any real way. As such, it makes sense to include a plastic set of them (beyond the extensive pining from guard players).

Plastic People wrote:I am a Catachan player. I think their models have more character then most of the other models out there. The regular Cadians show no character, they are just cut and paste infantry. Nothing special or exciting about them. They did a good job at pulling off jungle fighters with the Catachans and they have a great backstory. I am sure there are plenty more Catachan players out there. We are just hiding.

Again, my point is not to dismiss that some players choose to play catachans. My point is that the use of resources is odd, as Catachans already have everything they need, and could have been rounded out with a few blister packs, instead of committing to create two new sets of plastic sprues for a force/faction that simply doesn't sell in any great numbers. People who want to play their rambos should be able to- nobody here wants to take it away from you. (Hell, I'd like GW to someday add the few Vostroyans that players need in order to play with certain special weapons. That would be useful and only require that they half convert an existing fig to hold the missing weapon choices. NOT HARD for GW to do, yet they haven't and probably won't)

I just think it makes more sense to expand the Imperial Guard range rather than revisit such old sculpts. I'd even be ok (sort of) with the Catachan thing if they were ALL NEW SCULPTS. That might be kind of awesome. But to recycle the old timers, and raise prices on them as well, is kind of dumb.

I would prefer to buy one box and get a full squad than have to buy 4 boxes to make 3 squads. Plus it allows for stealth price increases...

Ozymandias, King of Kings

LittleLeadMen wrote:Again, my point is not to dismiss that some players choose to play catachans. My point is that the use of resources is odd, as Catachans already have everything they need, and could have been rounded out with a few blister packs, instead of committing to create two new sets of plastic sprues for force that simply doesn't sell in any great numbers. People who want to play their rambos should be able to- nobody here wants to take it away from you.

By this logic, why release anything for Cadians? The Catachans never had a metal command squad box like Cadians did, never had metal special weapons(except Snipers) that fit in with the newer plastic style(you can tell the difference easily between the old metal and newer plastics, my Catachan army is made up of a mix), and only have a single special weapon option in the plastic kit(flamer v Cadian's Flamer/GL). By your logic(Already having everything they need), Catachans are more fitting for getting new stuff than Cadians.

That said, I've seen more Catachan armies than Cadian armies in the Southern USA(that may say something, don't know), especially around LA and MS.

I need me some Valkries

Well, for one thing, Cadians FAR outsell Catachans as far as box sets go. So it makes sense to release NEW things for them. Second, Cadians have been adopted by GW (for better or worse) as the proto-typical guard army. They got featured extensively in the book, and they're pretty much all we ever see when it's time to represent the Imperial Guard from the game company.

Third, the Cadians are already old sculpts. They were released with the old guard book, which is already from 2003. That's already fairly old, game life-span wise. It will be mid 2009 when the new Guard book is released. It would seem appropriate to release new sculpts for the army. Cadians are the guard archetype currently. So GW should give them their missing command squad. They should also include some of the other special weapon options in that kit to round out those missing on the general troop frame.

But Catachans are far older models. They look it, especially when compared to current miniatures production standards. I have no objection with still selling the existing line. My objection lies in re-cutting the sprues and creating a new command squad for them. It's got extremely limited selling appeal. As such, it doesn't seem that important. Additionally, if GW was going to go through the trouble of re-issuing the Catachans, this would be the perfect opportunity to actually correct them, and resculpt the kit for a new generation. Why reissue the same low quality sculpts, with misproportioned anatomy? The NEED to re-issue the old sculpts on a new frame is the objection, not the selling of Catachans.

It seems to me that the best course of action would be to either create new Catachans for the new sprue, or simply leave the line as is, and use those resources for Greatcoat guard. My preference (clearly) is for greatcoats, mainly because it expands the number of modelling options for Guard players, while leaving all of the previous choices relatively intact.

LittleLeadMen wrote:Well, for one thing, Cadians FAR outsell Catachans as far as box sets go. So it makes sense to release NEW things for them. Second, Cadians have been adopted by GW (for better or worse) as the proto-typical guard army. They got featured extensively in the book, and they're pretty much all we ever see when it's time to represent the Imperial Guard from the game company.

Where are the sales figures to prove this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying this is speculation on your part since there's no proof one way or there other available to us.

It's not speculation on my part at all. The general managers at 2 GW stores, and one Battle Bunker, as well as two friends that run indy stores in LA and NYC have said as much when I questioned them about it. The breakdown on Cadian vs Catachan is pretty nuts, for some stores it comes in close to 10 to 1. Catachans are old. The sculpts look it. And the desire to play Rambo-influenced guardsmen has waned a bit since its heyday in the late 1990's.

Even if you don't believe me, think about your own gaming circles. How many Guard armies do you see? Then take that number and break it down by constituent factions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most gamers are not going to claim some sort of Catachan oasis where they outnumber any of the other guard armies, let alone warrant the revisit. Maybe if GW gave us NEW sculpts for basic troopers, but that isn't happening.

LittleLeadMen wrote:Even if you don't believe me, think about your own gaming circles. How many Guard armies do you see? Then take that number and break it down by constituent factions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most gamers are not going to claim some sort of Catachan oasis where they outnumber any of the other guard armies, let alone warrant the revisit.

Platuan4th wrote:That said, I've seen more Catachan armies than Cadian armies in the Southern USA(that may say something, don't know), especially around LA and MS.

LittleLeadMen wrote:

Shep wrote:For every 'the matrix was cool' greatcoat guardsman out there, there is at least one 'first blood was cool' jungle guardsman hiding in the 'green'

I personally feel that, stylistically, greatcoats are a little bit played out. I think a retro turn to jungle warfare is hip, from an artistic point of view.

Spoken by a guy who has a Vostroyan as his avatar. Greatcoats seem FAR from played out. First, how many can you actually buy? Either crazy expensive FW Krieg, or old timey Valhallans or Steel legion. They can't really be played out when there hasn't been a new release for them in some time. Second, there is a lot of historical precedence in wearing greatcoats among armed services in the world. The Imperial Guard is, at its essence, supposed to be a 40k version of those types of historical antecedents. GW has said as much, many, many times. Catachans, and Cadians, for that matter, do not portray that lineage in any real way. As such, it makes sense to include a plastic set of them (beyond the extensive pining from guard players).

I didn't mean that greatcoat guardsmen are played out. I meant that in popular culture, the use of the greatcoat to indicate that a person is "cool" is certainly played out. Keanu Reeves in The Matrix, Neil Patrick harris in Starship Troopers, Michael Biehn in The Terminator. I mean to say that the counter culture of "I don't care how hot it is. I'm wearing this to 'freak people out'" Is done. In contrast, The newest Rambo movie, Tropic Thunder, Rescue Dawn all feel a lot more 'fresh' to me.

Let's just leave the discussion at, as much as you think death korps of krieg are cool, I think they are a tired 'post-nazi' future soldier rehash.


As to your assertion that GW is wasting time. A recut (and possible reshaping of the arms) of an existing plastic kit is not much in comparison with developing a new kit. It really shouldn't be thought of as taking the place of something else. There are plenty of outspoken trench-coaters on the internet that make a lot of noise about wanting their plastic kit. But as this thread has demonstrated, there are still plenty of death-worlders belly crawling through the muck, ready for their fresh new models.

There is also the possibility of guardsmen wearing nightshirts. Hmm, I think this could satisfy a lot of GW customers. let me set the scene....

"It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife; the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sun up. Sleep tight, mates, in your quilted Chambray nightshirts."

But again, I hate to burst your bubble, but if you look at overall GW sales (at least in GW stores), you'll see that the largest concentrations of gamers are not in the South. They are in the northeast corridor of the US, and in the mid-west.

Shep wrote:Let's just leave the discussion at, as much as you think death korps of krieg are cool, I think they are a tired 'post-nazi' future soldier rehash. As to your assertion that GW is wasting time. A recut (and possible reshaping of the arms) of an existing plastic kit is not much in comparison with developing a new kit. It really shouldn't be thought of as taking the place of something else.

I appreciate your comments, but just to close out here.... First, there seems to be a lot of wrong comparisons re: Krieg here. I'm not asking for krieg, I'm asking for greatcoats, which are not exactly the same thing. Second, as per the "tired post-nazi future soldier rehash", that's kind of the entire point. That's what the guard are supposed to be. Even Jes Goodwin's original sketches for IG reflect that. Catachans are really a product line response to a short period of time where Rambo was seen as cool; so they were faddishly added.

Third, as much as its nice to say that "It really shouldn't be thought of as taking the place of something else.", this product does, in fact, take the place of something else. Design choices are made, resources are allocated, and specific products are released, always in lieu of other potential products. GW has outrightly said that the plastic sprue process is expensive and time consuming, even in the case of recuts. It's one of the reasons why we see limited releases every year. Only so many can be done, due to time and money.

Again, going back to my main point- Catachans are fine for those that like them. There already exists a plastic kit. A few metal additions would more than suffice to cover the gamer perceived "need" of which elements are missing in that current product line. It would seem, to me, at least, that the opportunity to release new sculpts and expand the IG line has more merit than re-releasing sculpts that are nearly a decade old.

One thing to keep in mind, there is a "stealth market" for Catachans, which is Necromunda players.

bubber wrote:'
Hi guys, here is what we've heard regarding the first week of IG releases in May. I'm certain there will be much more coming later in the month.


IG Codex $25
IG Primaris Psyker $15
IG Ratling Snipers $20
IG Sentinel $25
IG Cadian Command Squad $25
IG Catachan Command Squad $25
IG Valkyrie $50
IG Cadian Shock Troops $22
IG Catachan Jungle Fighters $22

~Standard caveats apply, and no guarantees on these prices. Still though, those $22 Cadian/Catachan prices would seem to mesh with the earlier rumors of those kits being repackaged into 10 man squads with a heavy weapon squad included. Do you guys see that Valkyrie on the list? Pretty cool! I expect Jwolf is already weeping tears of joy and practising his "Flight of the Valkyries" humming.'

Yawn...


With a list like that, don't bother.

Where is the new FOTM regiment? These guys are so three years ago.

Why do some of you still want plastic greatcoat IG? There's already Krieg. I have some and love 'em. It's not like the different design is enough to warrant a full plastic release.

The other Guard variants are the same. Want Tallarn IG? Sorry, metals and FW. Want near-future Halo ODST troopers? Elysians are FW. Didn't get in the initial splash release for Vostroyans? Direct order only. Same thing with greatcoat. Get 'em from FW.

stonefox wrote:Why do some of you still want plastic greatcoat IG? There's already Krieg. I have some and love 'em. It's not like the different design is enough to warrant a full plastic release.

The other Guard variants are the same. Want Tallarn IG? Sorry, metals and FW. Want near-future Halo ODST troopers? Elysians are FW. Didn't get in the initial splash release for Vostroyans? Direct order only. Same thing with greatcoat. Get 'em from FW.

FW are so expensive though.

they are like 50% more expensive then their GW counter parts, and no 30% discount either.
FW models looks amazing though, cant deny that.

So the real question is, why not hire FW sculptors -_-

bubber wrote:'
...
IG Codex $25
...

I know there's no promise on the prices but didn't all codex books go up to the $30 Space Marine level?