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livingregret wrote: Yeah I think they are simply trying to, finally, flush out what the current line is/will be. That is why we are getting plastic Stormtroopers, Ratling Snipers and new Ogryn. Am I wrong about the Ogryn? I don't remember right now if we are getting new models for those guys....having said that I would like to reiterate what was said earlier in the thread. New Guard book is great for IG players everywhere but if you are starting guard, get the 20 man boxes now. Since starting my IG I am now up to...

140 Plastic Cadians
Leman Russ
2 Chimera
5 Sentinels
9 heavy weapon teams
Now the only things that I might regret are the Sentinels(got em VERY cheap from some friends)...see? See what I did? Bought stuff that won't be recut/replaced If your considering guard..stock up while they are cheaper.

For those of you with current guard armies who have read these rumors, what do you feel would be the best combo of boxes to buy from the current lineup and the future lineup? Like buy only cadian 20-man squads and 3-team heavy weapons boxes or a mix of those and the 10-man + 1 HW team boxes to get the optimal number of both (say that you want even numbered HW teams or so which is why I ask from people who have read the rumors). Assume that the LR, Sentinel, and Chimera prices don't change.

aka_mythos wrote:I think between the highly probable plastic storm troopers and the Valkyrie that's as much if not more than the equivalent effort put into either of those releases.

When I look at all the stuff IG will actually get with this edition I'm happy that they've put as much effort as they have

what we would be getting would've been diminished if a new guard infantry box had been made.

Yeah, I'm happy to see the Valks in this release, and I guess that Storms could be counted as similar to the previous infantry. Although the plastic Storms are something of a dead end, as they don't expand out with Command or Heavy Weapons, nor require matched Rough Riders / tank crew.

I'm also happy with the Valks, and will be buying a set of 3. But I'd like to get a better look at the plastic model.

For not a lot of money, GW could have done a Black Templars-like Krieg conversion set for the Cadians. New Greatcoat legs and Gasmask heads with some new bitz would be easy, and sell like hotcakes.

stonefox wrote:For those of you with current guard armies who have read these rumors, what do you feel would be the best combo of boxes to buy from the current lineup and the future lineup?

I'm not quite sure I understand the question.

Most of us with current Guard armies probably have 100-200 Guardsmen of various types, along with a half-dozen Tanks of various types. Some of us will have quite a bit more, and a few somewhat less.

So there generally won't be a need to buy much of anything unless there's a major reduction in overall unit costs.

However, assuming Guard do get some kind of usable points cost reduction, I suspect those points would be re-spent on mobility (Drop Troops upgrades & Chimera models), along with useful things like Cameoline.

If odd-ball units become competitive, then I could see players spending for Ogryns, Ratlings, and Conscripts for simple variety's sake.

Well let me try to rephrase the question: consider the rumored drop in points of the basic guardsman and the rumors of whatever they're gonna do with heavy weapons teams and/or the platoon system. Would it be more prudent for a new IG player to buy all the current heavy and 20-man boxes so he could have as many heavies as possible or buy some of those to get a bunch of heavies and in addition also go for the future repackaged set for more men with not as many heavies?

I ask because you guys would be the ones who'd know more about the optimal number of heavies in an army list and would make the most use of what scant rumors are available.

I'm guessing that when you say "those points would be re-spent on mobility (Drop Troops upgrades & Chimera models), along with useful things like Cameoline" that this means there won't be much need for more overall bodies so a new IG player would be better served with just buying all the current boxes?

Well, I'm wondering the same thing myself. I think stocking up on a few boxes of basic Cadians isn't a bad idea right now. If the new box has all the weapons in it, you can use the bits with extra bodies. If not, the heavies will still be available. If the heavy weapon teams expand to 10 men, then the extra bodies will be useful, and the command squad boxes will no doubt be laden with bitz that'll be useful.

I look at it like this: Good ork armies are now built around at least 4 full mobs of boys on foot (or the same number in wagons and trukks), Space marine lists are now often built around 4 tactical squads, so it makes sense that IG will be built around 4 infantry platoons. If you can drop 8 line squads, that's a good start. I'd assume that heavy weapon squads will be at least as big then as now, so I'd make sure to have 2 Anti-tank and 2 fire support squads. Beyond that, I have no idea.

The real question I have is if I should start stocking up on 3rd edition (tusken raider style) storm trooper specials, as I currently have 4 of each for squads. If they up the special count to 4, I'm going to need to get some more.

stonefox wrote:Would it be more prudent for a new IG player to buy all the current heavy and 20-man boxes so he could have as many heavies as possible or buy some of those to get a bunch of heavies and in addition also go for the future repackaged set for more men with not as many heavies?

Oh, got it.

The big problem is not knowing what will be in the new IG squad box, specifically which Heavy weapon(s?), and which Specials. If you get lucky, and it includes multiple Heavies that you were planning to build your army around, then you're in good shape. If not, you have a problem because you're paying more per model and throwing away the bitz you don't want.

So the question is what will be in the IG squad box. I'm guessing a full suite of Specials, ML, and (maybe) Mortar, as these are relatively smaller and easier to fit on the sprue. I don't think that GW will include the Lascannon, HB, or Autocannon, as the weapons are larger and require the weapon chassis. But you never know...

Anyhow, given this, I'd buy at least 1 Cadian Battleforce, maybe 2. It's not an awesome deal, due to the ruins replacing models, but getting 3 boxes of stuff isn't terrible for the money. You get 20 dudes and a Heavy Weapon box, so you will have weapons options. I'm a low risk kind of guy, so that's why my choice is this way.

If I were just buying squad boxes, I might buy 20 or 40 dudes, planning to buy the 5E Cadian Battleforce, which should remove the ruins.

stonefox wrote:I'm guessing that when you say "those points would be re-spent on mobility (Drop Troops upgrades & Chimera models), along with useful things like Cameoline" that this means there won't be much need for more overall bodies so a new IG player would be better served with just buying all the current boxes?

Once you have 100 Guardsmen, you probably have enough to start:
5 HQ Command (5)
2x 3 Lascannons / MLs (12)
2x 3 Autocannons / HBs (12)
3 Mortars (6)

2x 5 Platoon Command (10)
2x 2x 10 Platoon squads (40)

That's 35 HQ models, 50 Troops, leaving 15 for 3x 5 Veterans.

To build this, you'll need at least 2 Heavy weapons boxes plus another 4 boxes of 20 Guardsmen. If you cut down on the Heavy squads, you can cut a heavy box, and just have more Platoon squads.


When the new Codex arrives, plan to mechanize a Platoon.


Regardless, no matter what you do, a couple boxes of dudes (40 Guardsmen) will always be useful to start.


Obviously, Guard ain't for the light of wallet!
____

Polonius wrote:I think stocking up on a few boxes of basic Cadians isn't a bad idea right now. If the new box has all the weapons in it, you can use the bits with extra bodies. If not, the heavies will still be available. If the heavy weapon teams expand to 10 men, then the extra bodies will be useful, and the command squad boxes will no doubt be laden with bitz that'll be useful.

Generally agreed. You can nearly always use more dudes with Lasguns to bulk things out.

Polonius wrote:Good ork armies are now built around at least 4 full mobs of boys on foot (or the same number in wagons and trukks), Space marine lists are now often built around 4 tactical squads, so it makes sense that IG will be built around 4 infantry platoons.

IMO, that's probably overload. Orks and SM are based on having a minimum of 4 Scoring units. So that would be met by 1 Platoon and 1 AF squad. Or Grenadiers. I think 2 moderate Platoons (or 3 minimum Platoons) should be sufficient.

Polonius wrote:The real question I have is if I should start stocking up on 3rd edition (tusken raider style) storm trooper specials, as I currently have 4 of each for squads. If they up the special count to 4, I'm going to need to get some more.

I haven't heard of this rumor. I'd expect Storms to hold at 2 Specials per squad (like Inquisition), and expect Veterans to be somewhat more restricted in weapons allowance.

Of course, those models are awesome, so you should get more!

I'm pretty psyched for the plastic Storm Troopers, particularly if they are kasrkin style, as they can easily represent heavier Cadian-style troopers, as well as storm troopers. The bits are not so different from the mainline cadians, and they could be used to bulk up command squads, or in the event that one special character has a "carapace armor" rule for the army.

At this point, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I am waiting to hear a final line-up for the Guard codex rumors, and the releases we'll be seeing this May. The stuff they posted on BoLS sounded great, but I was personally still looking forward to the recut LemanRuss/Demolisher, the Chimera/Hellhound, Commissar Lord, and soem new Special Charcters or redos of the current line.

We just need some damn confirmation now!

plastic stormtroopers in second wave guard

Source? Or just random statement?

Thanks for the insight Pol and DD. Would you say that even though you practically get a half-off unit from a battleforce that it'll be worth it? The rumors suggest a recut LR with more options. Or did you mean that I should get the 5th edition battleforce?

It's gonna be odd using a mixed regiment of Krieg, Elysians (for drop troops) and Cadians. Not since my cousin and uncle's 2nd edition armies have I seen a mixed uniform IG army.

Scotty: random post is random

If you're waiting for great coats to get into IG, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Yeah it would be great if they made them, but I would much rather see GW "finish" the current ones meaning Catchatan and Cadians, and it looks like that is what they are doing. If you think the current ones are ugly and don't deserve an update, then you're just silly in the head. Lots and lots of people have those models and therefore it makes more sense for GW to finish what they started. Even though it's more expensive in the end I like the idea of the 10 man boxes for the squads with heavy weapons. It's just easier to build units that way. As long as the sprues come with the bitz for all the options meaning every special weapon so you don't have to buy the blisters of 2 metal guys if you want plasma or melta guns. So all you should need is 2 boxes of men and 1 command squad box to make a platoon, and you will have enough bitz to have each of your units have virtually any weapon combo out there. I'd also like to see them release a platoon box set that has 2 units plus the command squad for a reduced cost. Maybe $60 (or less ) instead of $69.

I would really love it if they would recut the sprues in such a way that will allow you to easily mix & match. Bodies and legs separate like now. Each gun arm separate without the hand on the barrel, like the way marines are. Then it would be easy to, say, put out a "mordian upgrade kit" where maybe it's just got bodies and gun arms with the little shoulder thingies, but you use cadian legs. Or have sprues of trench coat legs & gas mask heads that you would swap with cadian legs to make death korps. It would just be cool if they could have the cadians and catchatans as the main armies and design the sprues so they would be modular enough to just make upgrade kits for the other kinds of guard armies out there.

stonefox wrote:Thanks for the insight Pol and DD. Would you say that even though you practically get a half-off unit from a battleforce that it'll be worth it? The rumors suggest a recut LR with more options. Or did you mean that I should get the 5th edition battleforce?

It's gonna be odd using a mixed regiment of Krieg, Elysians (for drop troops) and Cadians. Not since my cousin and uncle's 2nd edition armies have I seen a mixed uniform IG army.

Sadly the rumor for the recut LR has somewhat died out as of late but that means little. As for getting a half-off unit in a Battleforce, that is pretty standard GW procedure. The only box this is an incredible steal both points and cost wise is the Necron box that gives you 738pts. BUT the Battleforce is a great start for the fact that you get 20 guys, 3 heavy weapons and a Leman Russ. All 3 are things that make it's way into most guard armies.

Mixing regiments shouldn't be that weird though. Reading the fluff...most battles are fought along side other IG units and therefore you have mixed units engaging the same enemy. I plan to slowly incorporate either Catachans or Necromunda gangs for my Vets/Conscripts. W/ some slight conversions they can all fit in together.

Funny talking about how many IG I have...I realize that I still need a few more. I will most likely pick up 2-3 more boxes of just Cadians w/ a few Chimera. Why? Because I enjoy using Troop Choices

stonefox wrote:Would you say that even though you practically get a half-off unit from a battleforce that it'll be worth it? The rumors suggest a recut LR with more options. Or did you mean that I should get the 5th edition battleforce?

It's gonna be odd using a mixed regiment of Krieg, Elysians (for drop troops) and Cadians. Not since my cousin and uncle's 2nd edition armies have I seen a mixed uniform IG army.

Not having a magic crystal ball into the future has its downsides.

The current Cadian Battleforce is quite playable. To be "perfect", GW would replace the Ruins with a Sentinel. Or a Chimera. I hope that would be the default 5E Battleforce configuration. But nobody knows, yet.

A standard Guard army can use every model in the Cadian Battleforce (aside from the Ruins). You might do somewhat better with the 5E boxes, but it's hard to count on.

Not knowing, I'd guess that the recut LR is wave 2, but we won't know about that for another month or two. Same with any reconfigured Battleforce box.

I have a lot already on my plate, so I'd probably wait it out to see the new Guard releases before committing to any new army. But if I were getting into IG brand new, I'd buy at least 2 (possibly *3*) Cadian Battleforces. That would give me a couple Russes, along with 50+ dudes and enough heavy weapons to get started.

____

Necros wrote:If you're waiting for great coats to get into IG, you're gonna be waiting a long time.

I like the idea of the 10 man boxes for the squads with heavy weapons.

It would just be cool if they could have the cadians and catchatans as the main armies and design the sprues so they would be modular enough to just make upgrade kits for the other kinds of guard armies out there.

Yeah, we know. Still, do want Greatcoat Gasmask Guard!

IMO, you should think *single* heavy weapon, not multiple heavy weapons. That would be more consistent with the basic SM Tacticals and CSM boxes.

Isn't that pretty much what I asked for? Greatcoat legs and Gasmask heads as upgrades to the Cadians?

It doesn't really matter to me what Army/Armies are released, I already have every Army type of Guard ever made, just give me reasonably priced stuff to add to my collection. If you don't like the stuff don't buy it.

I will be buying some of the new Baneblade variants, a Valk or two, and more troops. I would like to see a new Character or two.

The reason that 3 Battleforces, or at least 1 + More infantry boxes, is recommended is that in the current Codex you need 55 guys to fill out your basic troop choices if you don't take a Armoured Fist Squad
1 Hq(5 guys)
2 Troop Choices(2 5 man squads + 40 Guys)

55 Guys. 3 Battleforces will give you 60 + the 3 Leman Russ you will use in some amount.

Personally I'm hoping for a slightly reconfigured battle force that has the new plastic command squad included along with two squads of recut infantry, giving you a real troops choice in form of a full infantry platoon paired with say, a Russ and new Sentinel.

I agree....actually giving us at least one troop choice in the battleforce would be very nice. A new recut sentinel would also fit. Considering that most Battleforces either save you on box or gives you a box at half off....
2 Cadian Troops $44
1 Command $25
1 Sentinel $25
that's only $94 while the box would be 90$. So maybe a heavy weapon squad as well? Or keep w/ the russ and the box would come to around $115's. That seems a little more in line w/ how they battle forces go. Sooo if that was the case
5 Man HQ
20 Troops
1 Leman Russ

Still 1 full troop Choice and 1 Heavy. That would be cool and seem somewhat likely

I know I was just saying that's how I'd like to see it :p

I'd also like to see stormtroopers as troop choices or at least Grenadiers even if they're still 0-3

I think w/ the Plastic Storm Troopers the choice to make them Troops will be there. Maybe if you take the Commissar for a commander? I think it would be highly unlikely to have those guys come out as plastic and GW not want to sell plenty of them, even more so w/ the new transport coming out for them.

Yeah, that's what I figured. No biggie.

I also think Guard should get Storms / Grenadiers as Troops. It makes sense, and the 0-3 restriction isn't needed.

NEED pics!!!!

Seconded.

All we have is some greens of the plastic Storm Troopers / Kasrkin with a beefy Mars pattern shotgun.

This is just pipedreams and should in no way be inferred as a bona fide rumour, but what would really make me want to have GW's babies would be another AOBR type deal with guard and either CSM or one of the other xenos, that would be awesome.

Back OT, I asked this question a few months back with regard to what box sets we should be buying before the new IG releases... I think all of the metal stuff will still be available so I'd just concentrate on whatever plastics you like at the moment. I'll almost certainly be buying 4 battleforces (2 cadian, 2 catachan) and 4 heavy weapon squad boxes (2 cadian, 2 catachan) before the new plastics get released.

God this is an expensive hobby/addiction!

Oh, no doubt.

If the 40k6 starter had Imperial Guard vs Chaos Marines, that would be a cool way to turn the starter box on its head.


But if we're wishlisting about Guard in the starter set, then I'd have to say that the ideal opponent would actually be Dark Eldar. T3 Sv5+ on both sides of the board, in numbers, would be tremendous fun, and a great intro to how 40k *should* play.

Imperial Guard starter force would be structured like Orks:

- 6-man Command Squad w/ Officer, 2 GLs
- 10-man Stormtrooper Squad w/ 2 Plasma Guns
- 10-man Platoon Squad w/ ML & Flamer
- 10-man Platoon Squad w/ ML & Flamer
- 3x Sentinel w/ Multi-Laser

Then the Dark Eldar would structure somewhat like Marines:

- Archon w/ Agonizer
- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon & Disintegrator
- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon & Disintegrator
- 3 Jetbikes
- Talos

As the models are smaller, GW should be able to put a few more of them in the box, similar to how they have the Gobbos and Dwarves in BfSP.

Shame we won't get another starter box deal like AOBR until 6E.

Shame I'll die of old age before we see some IG confirmations and pictures!!!

Scottywan82 wrote:Shame I'll die of old age before we see some IG confirmations and pictures!!!

Who'd be the Sentinel Forum Moderator if you did?

Scottywan82 wrote:Shame I'll die of old age before we see some IG confirmations and pictures!!!

Pint says we get that sort of thing by the end of the second week of Feb. If you die of old age before then, you must be Yoda's uncle Jeff the unbelievably ancient.