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Also keep in mind, that most people have probably been accused of being TFG at least once. And we've all probably been TFG at least once. I think the difference is how many times you are and if you learn.

There's some 'nationally recognized' gamers that are great to play against and a lot of fun.

There's some gamers that lose a lot, never compete for any award, and are miserable to play against.

I think that Rule 1 of gaming should be, "always take the least advantageous view" on any rules debate. If both parties do that, you generally don't have any problems even when the rules don't cover all situations.

I like playing in them because I like playing competitively against like minded people.

Now I'm part of a group that really doesn't give a crap about comp, so I'll run something hard that's what I want to run.

But we're not people who will argue stupid rules or play like an ass. Always take the least advantageous option in rules disputes where something isn't clear thanks to GW's Grade-A rules writing.

One of the big reasons I go to tournaments is to actually learn more about 40k. I find myself concentrating more during the games and being more analytical. Not to say that I'm really competetive (I'm just not that good), but I figure things out for myself that I wouldn't have otherwise.

On the TFG note, I was the TFG in one game about eight years ago, and my behavior still bugs me. Never again.

One thing I remember from a tournament last year, I had my Ogres against a TK list.

Had a very VERY close charge with my Tenderizer/Longstrider Tyrant against a Bone Giant. I thought I had the move+wheel to get there, he didn't. We didn't really argue angrily, but it was one of those "yes he is, no he's not" kind of things.

It was close and he relented and I was in (basically meant a dead bone giant).

I sat back and saw the guys face and I said "I'm sorry, I'm not going to take it" and moved my Tyrant back 7" as a failed charge.

I apologized again and said I don't want to make him have a bad game as a result of a dispute like that. I just don't like doing that to people.

That's how you can be very competitive, with a hard/optimized list, but still not be TFG.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Thank you for the responses to far chaps! All nicely thought out and everyone seems to be getting the spirit of the thread. There's a couple of posters I feel have missed a bit of my original post, but meh, not to anyones detriment.

So, TFG eh? From your responses, it seems the harder you play, the more TFG you bump into. I can see the logic there I suppose, and I suspect it's as much perspective as anything else.

However....to you guys who play in Tournaments quite a lot, whereabouts in the proceedings would you say you meet TFG the most often? Is it towards the beginning of the weekend/event, in an attempt to take people out the running, or is it in the later events in an attempt to 'take you with them'

Perhaps it's the same at all points, I dunno!

Totally random, in my experience. Of the two or three that I would call out as TFG, one in round 3 of a 5-round tourney, one in round 1 of a 3-round tourney, and the other I don't remember, maybe round 4 or 5 of a 6-game tourney. But none have been in a final game where the tourney was on the line. And I play hard, I play to win, really I do, in spite of fielding IG almost exclusively for the last several years..................

The problem with listening to the internet about events is you usually hear what went bad not good. I have yet to see a post under discussion that said. "Greatest tournament ever" I had an awesome time. You'll see it in the Battle Reports section every now and then but not as a header in the discusions forums.

A 3 round tournament is a bit of a crap shoot as to who wins it (between a lot of good players). It's all about match-ups and which army you get with which scenario. You can go into a tournament saying you've got a chance at it but there's just too many variables to actually get a win. Especially when painting and everything else is involved. So you put your army men in a case and go down and do your best, have fun, and let the cards fall where they lie.

It's all about getting games in against new people and enjoying the hobby.

MDG, I think what you're responding to is drama that is mostly confined to the top tables. And that's not criticizing those on said tables. It's just that when you have two players with a strong interest in winning combined with a ruleset that's decidedly loose in spots, conflicts occur. In my experience, when you're on the top tables or playing someone from a top club you have to be prepared for a more serious, more tightly-played game. You kind of have to take things more seriously, because if you're playing loosely and they're playing more tightly, neither of you will have a good time.

Now, important point here -- this isn't at all the same thing as encountering TFG, which could happen to you on any table at a given tourney. TFG may in fact be a terrible player. In my experience, he usually isn't a top player, although he might be at his given local store in which he beats up on the 12 year olds. When you draw TFG -- and like others, I'll say it's the definite exception and not the rule -- you have to take the opposite approach and not take the game seriously at all. Your job in that case is to write the game off and get the h*ll outta there as soon as possible and get back to having fun.

I think going into a tourney with the right attitude is important, but you also have to be flexible enough in your attitude to deal with a range of personalities and motivation levels.

I'll add that I don't understand the next-day internet drama. It's become more common in recent years, and that's a *bad* trend IMO. What happens at the tournament needs to stay at the tournament. Sniping at players after the fact on internet forums is IMO probably worse sportsmanship than whatever caused the grievance in the first place.

I've only ever been to one tournament but I enjoyed it. It was very small, only a handful of players. Went down with a mate, played a couple of brilliant games and both my oppenants were very friendly guys. I even managed to win (there was no prize, just a pat on the back really)

There are pros and cons to tournaments. In the end, you have to figure out if the pros outweigh the cons for you.

While I love to see new armies and play against good people that I wouldn't normaly be able to play with, I find that those pros don't outweigh the cons of time pressured games, over competativeness, and the stress of knowing there are prizes on the line. Just my opinion though.

STELEK
STELEK
STELEK

Mods, can you let him back in so we can have people bitching about SOMEHTING other than the WC? Please? Love him or hate him, he was something else to read about other than the polar opinions of who did what in the Wrecking Crew. I have nothing for or against them (except that utterly SILLY pic in WD with Parker throwing up gangsign on his win. Hysterical!), but am tired of people lightining rodding them from one pole or the other. Stelek at least gave the poles something else to scream about.

He's not Beetlejuice, it won't work. We drop a hammer on Stelek comments usually when there is an attack or such because he cannot defend himself on this board. Thats is only fair.

I've played in a couple Tourneys, nothing big, just some RT's. My experiance in the last I played was great, even though for the first two games, I got beat so bad I, for a brief moment, thought that I had imagined all my previous games, and I had never actually played a game before. I love Tourneys though for the simple fact that I get to see these list that I don't normally play against. At the time we had NO eldar around here, but at this tournament, my first two oppnents were Eldrad with Prisms.....to a Termie heavy Space Wolf army....that is almost instant death. I know that now. Fortuenatly, both guys were awesome, and I was able to redeem myself in the third round with an epic CC game with some orks.
I think my only gripe about "Tournament Players" is the vast amounts of like armies you see, and I can't help but feel that one smart person on the planet finds a seriously Hardcore list, and then posts it somewhere on the web....and then at the next Tourney, there are 1400 2 DP lash armies, with oblits and the kill marks for your units already emblazoned on their hulls/guns. I know there are only a certain number of combos and ways to play, but when half of a field in a Tourney has almost identical lists as someone else in the field, that just irks me.
I maybe wrong, wouldn't be the first time, just sayin for the sake of sayin...

Exactly what does the letters TFG refer to? I understand the type of person, just not what the letters stand for.

That F$%^$%^ Guy

That's what I thought, but wanted clarity. Thanks

Everybody talks about all the twin-lash prince lists and so on but actually we don't have carefully collected information on what appears at tournaments.

We just hear that a particular build won, see that it is a powerful build and everyone starts talking about it. We ignore the number of CSM armies that ended up in the lower reaches.

Take note that despite Tau being reckoned one of the weakest armies in 5e, they are still appearing reasonably high up the rankings in tournaments. Not challenging for the top 10, I mean but not lurking in the bottom 25% either. That's because good players outplay worse players despite the strength of codexes and lists.

I went to one on the weekend and brought a Grot army. It was fun. Folks liked killing Grotz. That being said, it was far from a serious tourney. Playing with different folks is fun.

Realistically though, if it had been a white knuckled, heavily competitive tourney, I likely would have passed. I just want to pop into the odd tourney and meet a bunch of other folks who play with toy soldiers.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:what is it that, despite the problems (Well, what I see to be problems) keeps you paying to enter them?

You pick your reasons and let that be why you play. Pre-cookie, when I did tournament pay-to-play, I came in to see if I could get a decent Overall ranking, or to win Best General, or whatever.

In any case, spending a whole day playing 40k is always fun, and having a Tournament structure isn't a bad way to lock it in as a full-day event.

But going in with the express notion of winning Overall is a pretty tough thing, as there can only be one Overall winner per event, and there are enough issues with luck and subjective scores that the best preparation can still be undone.

Of course, if I can play casually / Apocalypse for fee, and save the tournament fees towards more stuff, that's much preferable to me.

Tournaments have always been a love-hate thing for me. I usually love local tournaments as they are great places to meet new gamers and a lot of the people you play against are awesome. However sometimes I'll go to a tournament and immediately regret my decision. The issue is that not all new people are fun play...

The one tournament I ever went to (4 years back now) was really well run, and every game I played was with a sporting player and against a pleasing army. I also thought the facilities were top notch, the chat and banter excellent and it was good value for money for the amount paid.

Yet afterwards I resolved I'd never go to another like it again.

The reason was simple. It involved playing 8 games over 2 days, and by 3/4 of the way through day 1 I was exhausted and just didn't want to play any more games. Yet out of respect for my opponents I slogged through the second day. What a way to kill my love for the game!

Those of you who enjoy tournaments - or even more so those that organise them - I tip my hat at you, sirs.

For me though, more than 3 or 4 hours playing a game is too much. I'm tired, bored and want to do something else. Or go to bed.

Back when I was a teenager I may have enjoyed it, although no such thing existed back then. Nowadays I'm just too darn old!

It's odd, because I can spend weeks or months painting up models preparing for gaming, yet after I've fielded the army for a few hours I'm just bored.

I think maybe for me the concept of gaming is far more rewarding than the actual gaming itself. Which somehow just doesn't deliver the goods.

Anyhow. I don't want to bring this discussion down. Really I think the point is that if you think there's a chance you might enjoy tournaments (or organised gaming of any sort) you should give it a go while you have the chance. Once you move on in life and your circumstances change, the odds are you may have missed the boat!

Outside of the "TFG" factor, a huge part is how well a tourney is run. I've only been to one tourney over the last ten years, probably well over 100 tourneys, that I regretted. My opponents were great guys, the games were fun. But I had a bit of a problem with the judges/staff.
I've also organized and run my fair share over the years as well, that old Outrider program thing.............. Still do it, too.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:Tournaments have always been a love-hate thing for me. I usually love local tournaments as they are great places to meet new gamers and a lot of the people you play against are awesome. However sometimes I'll go to a tournament and immediately regret my decision. The issue is that not all new people are fun play...

Yes. My last two tournaments had seriously high TFG factors. They were not fun.

The reason was simple. It involved playing 8 games over 2 days, and by 3/4 of the way through day 1 I was exhausted and just didn't want to play any more games. Yet out of respect for my opponents I slogged through the second day. What a way to kill my love for the game!

Those of you who enjoy tournaments - or even more so those that organise them - I tip my hat at you, sirs.

For me though, more than 3 or 4 hours playing a game is too much. I'm tired, bored and want to do something else. Or go to bed.

Agreed. I can handle about two games then I am done done duddly done.

the TFG phenomenon is simple.

You play with friends a lot and each group of friends will have different tolerances of rules and how "intense" they will want to get with the rules... (how strict they adhere and what not)

When you play different people you are exposed to different people and how their groups play/interpret rules.

Too often am I seeing people label others TFG when really its a simple social interaction you need to work through.

and ALMOST ALL TFG things can be solved by discussing things before the game.

I've gone to tournies were I have been labeled TFG (less often) before and also been places where I win best sportsman (most often). It really is just based on a regional thing and what groups do IMHO

I love tournements! I get the chance to play different people from my normal group. I get to meet up with people I don't see to often. I also get the chance to expand my gaming circle by meeting new people. On top of all of that there is just a different level of intensity invovled in tournement play. Playing tough lists and good opponents help make it fun for me. As for TFG, i really have only run into maybe 2 in the last 9 years of tourney play. The thing i've actually found most that will drive me from a tourney is the group/people/store running it. If they do a crappy job it can really ruin the experience.

I love tournaments. Having one list and having to go up against 5 different armies when you have NO IDEA of who you will draw is great! You have to use different tactics and might play against something you almost never see elsewhere.

The only reason my Salamanders are painted is because of the Conquest & So Cal Slaughter Indy GTs.

Having only started playing last June/July I'm fairly new to the tournament scene. One thing I really enjoy about tournaments is that people tend to know the rules. I have no problem playing new people, but there is something great about being able to play someone who knows exactly how to move, fire, and assault with all of his units. There also tend to be less arguements when playing someone well versed in the rules.

That being said, I've realized I'll never be able to win 1st overall at any sort of GT and am dissapointed by this. Some of the armies there are truely amazing works of art. My painting skills will never be that good due to a physical dissability, but I'll still go and try to compete for best general.

Oh, and my girlfriend & I get to travel together, which is fun in its own way.