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No major tournament or RTT has comp scores ... who here has played in a tournament with comp more than once or twice a year?

I'll echo the choir and say that you desperately need rhinos.

If nothing else, they'll save your bacon in the mirror match.

Further, I think you'd have serious trouble vs. Daemons. Without Berserkers to assault them post-lash, how would you handle 3 packs of Bloodcrushers and 3 Soul Grinders landing in your face? You are going to be desperately melta-ing vs. the Soul grinders, and the odds are pretty good one will survive, leaving plague marines and DP's to fight Crushers. I don't like those odds.

With rhinos you can move 12" and delay having to deal with the crushers while your Oblits try to handle the grinders.

The rhino build is def. the way to go. I find meltas and flamers to be better than plasma, too. Leave the plasma to the oblits (who get the blast).

Lot of whiners. Funny thing is, people who see my DPS, PMs, and oblits never whine- they complement the paint. I think people don't mind the hard list that looks good. Plus, it's not really your fault this Chaos codex is so bleh and really only rewards one build.

Melta doesn't seem desperate, in fact it seems like the easiest way to kill a Soulgrinder that wants to drop anywhere near the army. Rolling into the Grinders with powerfists seems a whole hell of a lot more desperate than Melta weapons to me. Lash takes lots of meltas because they're so good at killing tanks these days and tanks are what Lash lists tend to struggle with.

Bloodcrushers are harder, but simply wailing on them with Oblits will eventually force enough 5+ invulnerables to kill the unit. If there are 3 units then focus on one at a time and use Lash and your mobility advantage (assuming wings on Princes and rhinos) and lash to keep the other units at range. Of course the best solution is to use your superior mobility and Lash to keep the Crushers away while going after the scoring units.

Sportsmanship has nothing to do with lists imo and is pure behavoir while playing.

QFT

Uriah

ITT: People crying over obliterators and lash of submission.

to Typeline:
thanks... I almost snarfed a chicken sandwich

I would run three units of two Oblits per unit. I would then use the extra points for three rhinos, power fists for the Nurgle Marine champions and some icons. You may want to hold the oblits in reserve and deep strike them. Six oblits are plenty enough for a 1500 point list. This style of list is popular and a lot of people are fielding WAAC armies these days.

I would also consider running each Nurgle Marine squad with one meltagun and one plasma gun. This will make your troops more versatile. I think if it came down to one or the other I would just go with all meltaguns but one squad with two flamers would help against hordes.

G

This is a good competitive CSM list at 1500 points. Yes it is not friendly at all, you are bringing the A game, and will be able to compete with other top tier lists from the Orks, Daemons, and Space Marines codices. It's all about the meta-game and if you know there will be others with highly competitive lists (think Bloodcrusher, Biker Nobs, Loota Spam, and LR (variants) + Assault Termies w/ TH + SS), then bring it. If the meta-game is high fluff and friendly, then the games will probably not be fun and you won't make any friends. .

I think 6 oblits is fine, but for a little fun try out replacing one unit of oblits with a Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possession (150 points).

I am still learning a lot myself and I know why people complain about lash + oblits, its not friendly and a complete waste of time to play in friendly setting. I learned this the hard way when playing my dual lash/oblit list against a friend playing Orks even, but non-competitive list, and it was a joke and totally NOT FUN.

Just something to bear in mind (I posted this exact same thought in another similar thread a couple of weeks ago)-

This list is seriously dull, as in everyone at the final will see it coming a mile off and know exactly what it can do. Any properly competative opponent will have taken this list into account during the design of their army and you will have to be ready for a mirror match.

That said, it's still fairly nails.

p.s. I'm maybe just bitter as I went to heat three where six of the top ten were chaos (one of them only had one lash prince though).

People say we are crying over a list are wrong IMHO. Every 3 or 4 days a "new double lasy list pops up, and there is nothing wrong with that. But then the OP asks what tacits to use with it. A simple search will return over 1000 lists with the same tactics. Lash them in a bunch and blast them. Nothing more nothing less. I don't mind copy pasting lists. but go ahead and copy paste the tacitcs too. Oh, and don't fool yourself, this isn't a Dark Mech. list or anything else, It's a lash list.

sexiest_hero wrote:People say we are crying over a list are wrong IMHO. Every 3 or 4 days a "new double lasy list pops up, and there is nothing wrong with that. But then the OP asks what tacits to use with it. A simple search will return over 1000 lists with the same tactics. Lash them in a bunch and blast them. Nothing more nothing less. I don't mind copy pasting lists. but go ahead and copy paste the tacitcs too. Oh, and don't fool yourself, this isn't a Dark Mech. list or anything else, It's a lash list.

Well instead of flooding the list with "this is dull!", "all your friends will hate you" and ":yawn: copypasta" link him to a thread or an article about the tactics. Or just tell him to search for the tactics for a recent thread.

The list is good. We know it, we know it's drawbacks, no need to knock it. It's been done.

:yawn: more people hating on Lash, old news.

I don't mind the oblit/Lash spam.

But really, are we expected to believe that you wanted to play a Dark Mechanicus list, didn't like the 'crons and only had a fallback to this?

Building a list to fit your fluff is one thing, but don't try to pass this off as "fluffy" because you have renamed it something else.

fatal_GRACE wrote:Oooh, what a fresh, exciting, and original list.

What a fresh, exciting, and original post.

As for the list, I run 2 Lash Prince, 3x 6-Man PM squads (2x Meltas each, PFs in each) in Rhinos, 3x 2-Man Oblits. For fun, I swap out Zerkers for one squad of PMs. All this nonsense about comp. scores does not matter for a hill of beans, so just ignore it. Play what works for you, be it "cheese" or not. Don't play a weak list because people whine. Play a good list and make them better players by forcing them to learn how to deal with it.

Well, play the list you want.
My local opponents always complain no matter what army I field.

True I admit it I want some cheese of my own! Most players at my club have cheesy lists such as nidzillas, and lashs with 3 vindicators to a all jetbike seer counsil the lists go on, all of which I've been on the other side of the table to.

So I'd thought I'd get my own cheesy list I'd be able to whip out from time to time, true its very 'copy and paste' but that how most cheese armies are made. Also I'm a very friendly game always out for a bit of fun, I'm not someone who quote the rulebook that's what would get a bad sportship award not the list someones using.

Also I'm currently converting a renegade mechanicus cult army that uses the Necron list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/228258.page

But while all of the conversions are fantastic, the fact is till a new codex comes out it will struggle against some of the more competitive armies at my club and since it's my favourite converted army so far I came up with this list as an alternative to allow me to win a few games with theme while not having to build up and completely new army.

Some of you say it's not fluffy but all of them suit the theme, but a renegade mechanicus cult that specialises is robotics and ai would field such units like the Obliterators being large long range robots and the plague marines being the small ones. As for the Princes true they may not 100% suitable for the theme but I'm after cheese here so I'll state that their armed with some gravitation weapon.

What I like about it is it's small and easy to transport plus it doesn't require any editional models to the ones I converted for my Necron mechanicus who only need a few alterations.

As for the suggestions, I choose the plasmaguns because they could be fired from the rhino hatches giving them something to do while waiting for the final rush on the objectives on turn 4. Adding Champions is tempting so I'll consider it.

If the rhino moved, your plasma guns only have range 12" same as metlas. That said, I much prefer plasma weaponry on PMs. Because, when they blow up (which they always do) you get a 3+/4+ save against it. Even Oblits don't get that. Something to consider.

True I admit it I want some cheese of my own! Most players at my club have cheesy lists such as nidzillas, and lashs with 3 vindicators to a all jetbike seer counsil the lists go on, all of which I've been on the other side of the table to.

But 9 Obliterators is not the solution. I'd take about 6 of them and get some more variety into the list.

wuestenfux wrote:

True I admit it I want some cheese of my own! Most players at my club have cheesy lists such as nidzillas, and lashs with 3 vindicators to a all jetbike seer counsil the lists go on, all of which I've been on the other side of the table to.

But 9 Obliterators is not the solution. I'd take about 6 of them and get some more variety into the list.

Agreed 100%. More than 6 at this point value seems like a liability.

Indeed, consider the fact that the enemy gets cover saves all over the place and the new armor penetration table is weaker than in the 4th ed. This decreases the usefullness of shooty units in general.

I always make a competitive and a non-competitive list because people suck and can't deal with the fact that you're using your book and they're using theirs. If you think my book is better, use mine. You bring your best and I'll bring mine, or if you are starting a new army and wanting something more casual I'll meet that. But if you really don't like what someone has, just don't play against it (especially if you'd do something underhanded like changing your scores for them on factors that aren't supposed to be considered for that). Please stop complaining though, it's annoying for everyone.

Inigo Montoya wrote:HQ - 310
155 – Deamon Prince: Wings, Mark Of Slannesh and Lash Of Submission.
155 – Deamon Prince: Wings, Mark Of Slannesh and Lash Of Submission.

TROOPS - 732
266 – 7 Plague Marines: Aspiring champ w/ pf, 2 Plasmaguns, Rhino
233 – 6 Plague Marines: Aspiring champ w/ pf, 2 Melta guns, Rhino
233 – 6 Plague Marines: Aspiring champ w/ pf, 2 melta guns, Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT - 450
150 – 2 Obliterators
150 – 2 Obliterators
150 – 2 Obliterators

Total: 1492
Total No: 30(3)
Kill Pts: 11

There you go.
Nothing wrong with hiding behind big guns, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THERE!
All of the whining pisses me off. In a friendly game you would be a butt for playing this. In a tournament there is no reason not to.
Somewhere some whiny girlyman reinterpreted sportsmanship to reflect the build and not the player. The build has nothing to do with sportsmanship and getting docked as such is ludicrous.

Thank you, that list is perfect I'll use that one.

That list IS perfect. It should be stickied, so people who post TwinLash builds can just copypasta that sucker. It would be easier that way, I think.

PanzerSmurf wrote:One look at this list, and I know enough... This is the legacy of the last codex's Iron warriors. I have faced this army on many occasions at tourneys, and you get a big fat 0 for sportsmanship from me!

And this is exactly what is wrong with sportsmanship scores. Crap like this is exactly why I stopped going to tournaments.

Do you also mark only your friends up? Or do you just mark down lists you don't like?

You exploit the scoring system. That is cheating.

Rationalize away, cheater.

edit: And yeah, that last list is about as tuned as it gets.

Sigh... Lash lists are old, what else is chaos capable of besides this list?

I wish I had a lash list like this. Though I don't have enough Plague Marines, only Three Obliterators, and only a single Rhino.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
All of the whining pisses me off. In a friendly game you would be a butt for playing this. In a tournament there is no reason not to.
Somewhere some whiny girlyman reinterpreted sportsmanship to reflect the build and not the player. The build has nothing to do with sportsmanship and getting docked as such is ludicrous.

Sig'd.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Play what works for you, be it "cheese" or not. Don't play a weak list because people whine. Play a good list and make them better players by forcing them to learn how to deal with it.

It's easy to tell people to "learn to deal with it" but actually doing that can be difficult when you're stuck with an old and incompatible codex that leaves most of your army broken or underpowered. In many cases all you can do is learn to deal with the fact that you can't possibly win.

BrockSamson wrote:

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Play what works for you, be it "cheese" or not. Don't play a weak list because people whine. Play a good list and make them better players by forcing them to learn how to deal with it.

It's easy to tell people to "learn to deal with it" but actually doing that can be difficult when you're stuck with an old and incompatible codex that leaves most of your army broken or underpowered. In many cases all you can do is learn to deal with the fact that you can't possibly win.

I know, I play guard. It could be worse, I could play failcrons or dork'd elfdar.

DJ66 wrote:If the rhino moved, your plasma guns only have range 12" same as metlas. That said, I much prefer plasma weaponry on PMs. Because, when they blow up (which they always do) you get a 3+/4+ save against it. Even Oblits don't get that. Something to consider.

If you run the numbers you will find that 3+ and FNP delivers the same success odds as a 2+ save (actually its slightly less because there is a higher chance of rolling a 1 on GW dice). Meltas are better on plague marines because they hit MCs harder, can kill vehicles more easily and one-shot nob bikers and enemy characters. They will also never blow up in your face.

Nenya97 wrote:Sigh... Lash lists are old, what else is chaos capable of besides this list?

6 Landraider spam is the only other competitive one, and people will say the same thing about that as they will about dual-lash (hmmm, its almost as if people like complaining about competitive army lists...i think i see a pattern emerging). There has been some talk about CSMzilla (running 2 DPs, 1 GD, 3 dreads and 3 defilers), but I havent seen enough playtesting with it to say accurately if its competitive or not (at face value it seems that any army with decent anti-tank will wipe the floor with it, but lots of armies STILL arent running enough, so it may do passibly, although not Tier 1).

All the fun was taken out of our codex when it received its latest update, so we are left with the same old builds if we want to stay competitive. Dont blame the players, blame the dev team.