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While I think the Bastion sculpts are ok, I fall in the group that believes PP's sculpting tends to swing wildly between amazing and terrible, with a 65-35 swing towards the latter.

Zoned

JohnHwangDD wrote:I like that PP is a whole $1 cheaper per model than a GW Terminator.

Larger based infantry models have always been more expensive in the PP line. However,
I wouldn't compare the prices between the Terminators and the Bastions.

3 metal models would be the same cost as these 5 plastic models.

Add two blisters of single metal models and you have a price comparison of

45 dollars for five plastic models vs. 70-80 dollars for five metal models.

Plastic terminators vs. metal terminators = reduced long term costs for GW, but nothing
really up front.

They're entirely over the top, but that's obviously the idea. They remind me a lot of Grey Knight terminators however. I could see them being used for that, of course I also have no idea how big they are, but out of context at least they look the part ;-)

I wasn't complaining at all. I'm saying that PPP is ripping off the consumer less with these ugly-ass models than GW does with their Terminators. Bravo for PPP for not totally raping the consumer on price.

Where's all the talk of the Evil Empire? Where's all the "play like you've got a pair" and "metal miniatures 4EVA!"?

Even as someone who plays PP games, I think this is hilarious.

"Something, something, something dark side, something something something injection moulding."

The figs are pretty par for the course for PP, which is good.

fullheadofhair wrote:$45 for five plastic models - ugly assed models at that. PP has got to be the biggest "emperor has no clothes" company going. Most of their range is sub-par, a few par and one or two exceptional models (usually ruined by being a PITA to build). Ug ug ug ugly sculpting.

What gets me is where is the indignation? Where are the comments "I am never playing PP ever again" and "PP will go bust if they charge this". If GW released the same models for the same price say hello to the resulting fire storm of GW sucks balls. Smacks of hypocrisy to me.

PP business practices are not exactly a huge difference to GW, and we all know why that is.

Maybe some of us actually like PP's style? Sure, they have some stinkers in there, but all mini games do. Personally, the Bastions fit in with the style of PP, and the Protectorate perfectly. Big shoulder pads, big armor and over the top style are PP's thing. Sure, it's not for all, but there are a lot of people who like the style. And the detail on these is impressive, especially since it's their first plastic kit.

Also, as Malf mentioned, no one is screaming about the price because it is a significant drop from what they would have been in metal. That's fine that you don't like the models, but because you don't like the range doesn't mean it's true for everyone.

What I want to see them adding is pictures of the sprues. They have to know that people'd be curious as all heck to see them.

At any rate, it appears the PP forumgoers are liking these.

For me they fit the style that PP has had all along. It is a blend of western and eastern styles, sort of like Joe Madureira and his Battle chaser series. I personally love the look of them, It's rather Anime-ish in appearance like Five Star Story.

Yes I will admit that PP has had some bad sculpts, but my hope is with the success of these new plastics that we will see some older kits get redone.

As far as price goes, they are cheap. I would be happy to spend the 45 bucks for them and not feel ripped off. Plastic is very expensive to start up and with a smaller company like PP, it's great to see them make the Bastions this cheap.

GW on the other hand has sold more than enough terminators by this point to pay for the initial start up cost and now what?

True, maybe PP could charge less, but as others have already said, at least I am not paying 85 dollars for five models which could possibly be a pain to put together. I for one love working with plastic over metal and the production quality of plastic lately is much better than it used to be.

Just my own humble opinion. I support PP and look forward to see what else they will do in Plastic!! It they look as good as these guys, then I will be a very happy camper indeed.

Given the expense of plastic moulding, i wonder why they chose the Exemplars as the first plastics, instead of doing a new box Winter Guard or Trenchers, something that would theoretically sell more than expensive elite models.

Good question. Perhaps there was a "let's show what we can do" thought in the process to show their capabilities?

AJC

I would guess that they realized more Bastions will sell if it's a $45 plastic kit for a full unit than if it was $80 for a full unit of metal models. I expect that plastic trenchers, winterguard, etc. will be released at some point.

I think that may be the case. MK 2 will give PP a good reason to go back to the original prime models and make adjustments as needed. Take winterguard, most Khador players do not use winterguard because Iron Fang Pikemen, Assault kommando's, Kayazay Assassins or some other such unit fair far better. Plus the models for the winterguard suck to be quite frank about it.

I would also love to see Knights Exemplar redone in plastic, Zealots, winterguard and IFP's (even though I have 20+ all with 1/16" brass rod converted pikes!).

I think this unit was the right unit to start with. I wish we didn't know until now that it was plastic as I think the shock and awe factor would be greater. Still I look forward to see which units will be redone in plastic, especially horde units (praetorians, swordsmen, new striders, kriel warriors etc).

Look hideous to me. Not so much that they're poorly sculpted, just that the design aesthetic is horrible.

I like them. I wish I would play an imperial 40k army, so I could use them as Grey Knights

The detail is nice, but I just don't like the minis. The shoulder armor in WM is one of the reasons I haven't fully embraced the game.

The minis for Hordes aren't bad, I dig them.

Sprue pics or it didn't happen.

Anyway, I'd LOVE to see some Khador armor done in plastic.

I don't understand the price discussion in relation to Terminators at all. 5 Terminators in Hordeshammer is, in a 1500pt game less than a sixth of the net points value of the army. Five of these guys in 500pt Warmachine game is a sizable chunk of the net force. In addition to this PP (& GW) need to make money, many people will purchase multiple terminator squads, Warhammer is a game played with larger armies (even ignoring Apocalypse) and this unit people will for the most part only ever buy one of, as a plastic kit with limited sales potential this is a huge investment for PP and needs to be priced accordingly, and as pointed out, its still cheaper than metal, so happy customers.

I would like to see some unpainted pictures of the models or sprue pics just to see how detailed they actually are. I have a lot of faith in Privateer Press to make a good model but I have also seen way too many crappy models that looked really good when painted by the company. An A+ painter can often make really crappy molds look like the cat's meow.

They definitely look like Protectorate models though, love em or hate em.

Side note: I have never thought of Privateer Press as the cheaper alternative to GW. I would say model for model they are more expensive than GW, their game just requires less figures. I would also say that I hear far less complaining about PP when it comes to prices.

BDJV wrote:The detail is nice, but I just don't like the minis. The shoulder armor in WM is one of the reasons I haven't fully embraced the game.

The minis for Hordes aren't bad, I dig them.

I assume you know this, but there are whole factons that lack massive shoulder pads. The Mercenaries, for example.

WRT GW's Terminators, these appear to be roughly (+/- 10%) comparable in size and design, so it is clear that PPP used GW as a benchmark for pricing their plastic infantry.

Whether they're a large or small portion of the army is rather irrelevant. I'm sure that PPP would dearly love to see WM/H move to 1500+ pts as the standard game size, with the attendant additional purchases required. If PPP could push their players to Apoc-sized games of 3000+ pts, they'd be ecstatic.

JohnHwangDD wrote:WRT GW's Terminators, these appear to be roughly (+/- 10%) comparable in size and design, so it is clear that PPP used GW as a benchmark for pricing their plastic infantry.

I think the whole 'fantasy' gaming industry used GW to gauge prices.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Whether they're a large or small portion of the army is rather irrelevant. I'm sure that PPP would dearly love to see WM/H move to 1500+ pts as the standard game size, with the attendant additional purchases required. If PPP could push their players to Apoc-sized games of 3000+ pts, they'd be ecstatic.

PP did up the size of the typical game (from 500 to 750), 1500 seems to be a number you just pulled out of nowhere. I don't think 'buy much more of the same game stuff' is PP's plan; it's more like 'buy into our new game as well as Warmachine' e.g. Hordes Monsterapocalypse etc.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BDJV wrote:The detail is nice, but I just don't like the minis. The shoulder armor in WM is one of the reasons I haven't fully embraced the game.

The minis for Hordes aren't bad, I dig them.

I assume you know this, but there are whole factons that lack massive shoulder pads. The Mercenaries, for example.

Yeah, I have Magnus for the Mercs.

@George: 1500 is from squidgey.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@George: 1500 is from squidgey.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squidgey

What?

Scroll up.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/232689.page#607108

Um, he was referring to 1500 pt. Warhammer games (though he uses the term
Hordeshammer, which is weird).

Squigy's post is less than clear.

@JohnHwangDD: Are you saying you don't stand by this point then?

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm sure that PPP would dearly love to see WM/H move to 1500+ pts as the standard game size...

Whether you pulled it out the air or Squidgy says so (if indeed he did) it still isn't so (or at least there is no evidence that it is true).

Those look awesome for plastics. I want to see the sprues!

I refer to it as Hordeshammer as the game has lost so much appeal, dump as models as you can on the table (less and less which seem to be painted) and scatter pie plates then remove swaths of models at a time. With ever dex release armies just grow and grow.

First off, I don't get why people hate on these models. They're fantastic. As for the shoulder pad thing, I think they look absolutely badass, realistic or not, I just want gak that looks cool.

fullheadofhair wrote:$45 for five plastic models - ugly assed models at that. PP has got to be the biggest "emperor has no clothes" company going. Most of their range is sub-par, a few par and one or two exceptional models (usually ruined by being a PITA to build). Ug ug ug ugly sculpting.

As someone who has more GW armies than PP ones (and is actively building some of them) and actively plays PP, you're kidding. As far as their range being sub-par, they have plenty of bombs sure, but so does GW. All I have to do is point to WHFB ranges for plenty of stinkers.

In terms of being a bitch to assemble, that's metal models period. I've assembled plenty of metal PP stuff and recent GW releases (the Hydra, PLEASE, my fingers still cringe at the memory).

What gets me is where is the indignation? Where are the comments "I am never playing PP ever again" and "PP will go bust if they charge this". If GW released the same models for the same price say hello to the resulting fire storm of GW sucks balls. Smacks of hypocrisy to me.

What indignation? PP's pricing "advantage" has almost always been in terms of getting a playable army, or at least it's been that way for the year or so I've been in their games. Model per model it was shown that they're on par with GW. Their trick is you need far less of their stuff to play a game and that the game/balance is far, far superior to GW.

GW does release the same models for the same price. They're called Terminators. People buy them in droves, despite the fact that the pricing from the metals to the plastics did not reflect a cost savings to the customer. And despite the fact that with a box (at the time of release in 4th Ed) you couldn't build the most common or desirable configuration (dual assault cannons) with the stock box.

These models do show a cost savings to the customer compared to other Medium Based infantry you can now buy from PP. It's no secret that some units in WM can be exceptionally expensive (read: Cav), more than GW in some cases.

PP business practices are not exactly a huge difference to GW, and we all know why that is.

Patently false. Model pricing is about par with GW in some cases. Better in some areas, worse in others.

The real business difference is in how they do their releases and manage their game system, which is infinitely better than GW. They also do a fantastic job of keeping me as a customer interested in my faction, continually releasing new models and rules for my armies over time at the same pace as the other factions. For GW, I get my army book after X years, with 1, maybe 2 builds in it that are viable with a subset of the models in the range.

And in conclusion, some of the anti-PP crowd has stated stuff about "what happened to Metal Models 4EVAH!"

I'll be the first one in line to call people who want metal models insane.

Go Plastics.