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< Taken by the void dragon. >

Here's my complaint list:

CSM invulnerable save on characters goes from 5+ to 4+
CSM land raider transport capacity from 10 to 12
Terminators from 1 wound to 2
Vehicle defensive weapons from S4 to S5
Reaper Autocannon from heavy 2 to heavy 4

All other complaints revolve around fundamental rule changes and codex rewrites.

Bloodcrushers 1 fewer attack.
Beast of Nurgle have 1 more attack and have either Beast, Rending, +1S, Noxious, or combo of these. As it is pointswise they are equivalent to the same points value of Plaguebearers only not Troops.

with just these two changes we'd see more of a variety in Daemon builds.

For my own suggestions,

We need more Assault 6 weapons. Up the number of shots an Assault Cannons and a Reaper Autocannon fires. No need for Rending then.

Similarly for Attacks. Perhaps give Hormagaunts 6 attacks with a Strength of 2. Though this would test the sanity of many with a swarm of 40 on the charge!

Get rid of Combat Shields; 3++ all the time is redonkulous. Or at least make them cc only.

Get rid of AP3 Lasguns (and the Sternguards special ammo), that is the Thousand Sons gimmick.
[Speaking of Thousand Sons give 'em Sorcery dagnamit, they were kicked out of the Imperium for practising Sorcery only to give it up when they started worshipping Tzeentch!!?]

Give Raiders a front armour of 11, so that bolters can't take em from the front (they do afterall have the same armour on the front as a Ravager)

nyyman wrote:5. C'tans T to 7, so that bolters could harm it. Points down of course.
6. C'tans 'Lol I Ignore your 2++' weapon of hell goes away. Points down of course.
7. Monoliths points upwards and very much. 5 points cheaper than Land Raider Redeemer? I call that Thank God that it can move only 6" a turn...

I sense a lot of hate in you.

Honestly there is no good reason that Bolters should be able to harm C'Tan.
And their ability to ignore your Inv saves is a gimmick that makes them slightly unique.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

1) Orks +1pt
2) Ork Sluggas and Shootas S3
3) Shuriken Catapults Assault 3 18" Range
4) Nobz Bikers/Meganobz should not be Troops
5) Nurgle Marines T5 or FNP not both
6) CSM +1pt for Bolter, BP& CCW not same as Marines
7) Hammerheads etc AV12
8) Lootas S6
9) Genestealers A3 4 on charge
10) Lascannons S10

Llamahead wrote:1) Orks +1pt
2) Ork Sluggas and Shootas S3

Why? I can somewhat see the +1 pt, but not the gun change.

4) Nobz Bikers/Meganobz should not be Troops
7) Hammerheads etc AV12

Then SM shouldn't get bikes as troops because of that white scars guy either. And why the Hammerhead? Every army that isn't Nid or Eldar have a Main Battle Tank with front AV13 or better. Why should the Tau suffer? Because its a skimmer? Necrons have a skimmer with AV14 all around.

8) Lootas S6
9) Genestealers A3 4 on charge

These I can fully agree with. Especially the Lootas.

10) Lascannons S10

Hell no. There are way too many S10 stuff flying around as it is, too many other factions stealing the Tau's thunder. You want to make the lascannon attractive again, change melta weaponry to AP2.

It's funny how you can tell which armies people play not only by the buffs, but by the nerfs. I almost feel like replying to some of the suggestions with "Whaaaaaaa, I can't beat X army, whaaaaaa!"

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I would also like to see Terminators get 2 Wounds.

I would like the nurgle greater daemons to have +1/2 T. All the other greater daemons have T6 as well but get some nice a boost in there gods specialty.

It be nice if daemons had a 4+ normal armor save if not fair .

nyyman wrote:5. C'tans T to 7, so that bolters could harm it. Points down of course.
6. C'tans 'Lol I Ignore your 2++' weapon of hell goes away. Points down of course.
7. Monoliths points upwards and very much. 5 points cheaper than Land Raider Redeemer? I call that Thank God that it can move only 6" a turn...

I sense a lot of hate in you.

Honestly there is no good reason that Bolters should be able to harm C'Tan.
And their ability to ignore your Inv saves is a gimmick that makes them slightly unique.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

wow every one is a winey critic. come on give gw some credit they are trying to balance a game (that is played my millions of kid and is their multi million $ cash cow) fairly. some parts may be called unfair but if say one stat was changed then it would throw the whole game is off. i play guard and have to deal with crappy stat all the time (untill may2nd!!) so suck it up and deal with it.

1. Guardians get a 4+ save
2. Eldar shooting aspects get +1BS and -1WS, fighting aspects get +1WS and -1BS. Same goes for Exarchs.
3. Autarchs, Phoenix Lords, and Farseers get +1WS and BS.
4. Terminators may make their 2+ save, and if they fail it, their 5+ save.
5. Orks are +1 point and lose 1A, but keep FC. They'll still beat the living snot out of you if they get into CC, but now they won't really outclass every other race in Assault.
6. Necrons get +1T (and a points increase to go with it), keep WBB, except it's more like Bionics. Every turn, for each fallen Necron (lay them on their side) roll a d6. On a 1, the Necron dies. On a 6, the Necron rises. Any other number means that the Necron is still on its side. A Necron on its side counts as a loss for Phase Out.
7. Gauss Weaponry fixed
8. Genestealers get WS6, and Furious Charge. (If they don't already have it, then they get +1A)
9. Shuriken catapults become R18".
10. Bloodthirsters get +1 Str, T, and A.

Bah, I'll bite...

1) Crisis and Broadsides are base bs4 (free target array), comanders BS 5 and 6 (markerlights max is bs 5 still)
2) FW gain free bonding knife and photon grenades, sergent upgrade is 10 points and includes networked markerlight
3) Kroot to I4, 5+ save and steath USR, Shaper gives FC and ld bump
4) HH - railgun is twin linked - broadsides gain SaP and railguns go to hvy 2 (look at what guard is getting)
5) All Crisis suits gain hit and run (to get out of CC)
6) Allies system for WH and DH go away (Inq+Mistics+new guard codex is going to hurt)
7) Eldar vehicles are BS 4, Units can Assult out of WS if moved under 12"
8) Living Metal changed to 4+ cover (free upgrade) from any shooting (allowing armies that rely on melta or lance to have a chance to kill it)
9) Ctan go away as does Phase out, Necron lords grant more army flexibility to compensate
10) Gauss goes to rending but no auto glance rule

Assault grenades and/or a 5+ (or even 4+) armor save for spawn of chaos. The difficult terrain tests are wrecking these guys.

Terminators BS5

1. Shuriken Catapult to range 18
2. Gaunt down one point
3. Hormagaunt down two (maybe three) points
4. Tau Pulse Carbine to Assault 2
5. Venom Cannon to -1 to VDC instead of always glance
6. Ork Boy +1 point
7. Lash of Submission turned into Shooting Power or only 1d6 movement
8. Ahriman to 200 points or give ability to use same shooting power twice a turn
9. Decrease cost of Icon of Tzeentch for generic CSM squads to 20 points
10. Eldar vehicles to BS 4

As a wolf this thread has some significance, what with the new 'dex and all.

1. Blood Claws WS4 (the come from a death world for Russ's sake!)
2. I dont mind Wolf Guard at WS4 but if WTN's are removed they mind want to look into boosting it
3. All spec SW character WS 7 (name 1 chapter master that can toe to toe with Ragnar or Logan fluffwise(no pun intended))
4. BS 5 Long Fangs (they've been fighting longer than every member of the Ultramarines chapters been alive and it would help offset their ludicrous cost)
5. Daemon Princes I4 with options to boost (I5 Nurgle? Come on)
6. LOWER COST BLOOD CLAW BIKERS!!!! 30 points for something thats only WS3 BS3 makes it unviable most of the time
7. LD 10/W2 Characters would be good, though considering what happened to vanilla marines im not holding my breath (I liked the old SM dex's options (not that I ever played as them but it gave me hope))
8. I like the idea of Chainswords confering +1S or modding the save (but then, I am a Space Wolf)
9. Options for BA and SW to make Rhinos assault vehicles
10. And finally, Catachans S4 you know you want to

Obviously points would need modding in places but these are just ideas so...yeah

oh...and Tau Pathfinders should have a 5+ save, they wear far less armour than FWs

List exception characters for CSMs (a la SMs or Orks)... why should everyone else have all the fun?

I'm not complaining that we lost a lot of stuff in the new 'dex, but, hey, why can't we get any of the interesting variation-on-a-theme characters?





And Kharn on a bike... I'd pay +25-40 points for that.

Dronze wrote:List exception characters for CSMs (a la SMs or Orks)... why should everyone else have all the fun?

I'm not complaining that we lost a lot of stuff in the new 'dex, but, hey, why can't we get any of the interesting variation-on-a-theme characters?

Hmm, maybe something like causing Ahriman, Lucius, Kharn, and Typhus to give bonuses to any unit with his respective mark but ban the use of any other mark? Hmmm, I like this idea...

The Emperor- Flat-lined____________________

Every army to tone down stats.
Gahh eveyone wants increases and treats MEQs as the base profile
To me the normal average frontline trooper has everything three apart from wounds and attacks of which he has one of and leadership 7

1. Terminators to 2 wounds
2. Ork boyz to S4
3. Tau to Bs 4
4. Eldar Vehicles Bs 4
5. Daemons to 4+ invul (Chaos Marine Daemons)
6. Warhammer Fantasy Lizardmen to Ws4
7. Icon of Tzeentch: Do something like Re-roll to hit, honestly the ward save thing is lame


Honestly I'm fine with everything Else

I mean, 1. Terminators wear the best armor there is, 2. Ork Boyz are muscular, and lead an 'ard life of smackin' 'eads in. 3. They're "Supposedly" The "shooty" army but they have guardsmen accuracy. 4. Eldar are too old to be inexperienced pilots. 5. I really want to like this unit, 6. Come on! They've been spawned for combat and nothing else, yet they have only average WS. 7. Who else thinks the ward save is lame???

1. Fire warriors to BS 4
2. Fire warriors to WS 2
3. Tyranid warriors to a 4+ sv base, but no further increase.
4. Gaunts to a 5+ sv, no further increase
5. Hormagaunts to a 5+ save, no further increase
6. Tau stealth teams to BS 4
7. Tyranid Warp Field to confer a 5+ invulnerable
8. Lictors to a 4+ sv
9. Crisis suits to BS 4
10. Fire Warriors to I3.

"Lootas S6"

Oh yes, make it so the only ranged attack orks get that can kill a tank is from a rokkit on a glancing.

"Bikers/MegaNobz not as troops"

You do realise that one of the fun things in designing an ork army is the "counts as troops" aspect. Especially when you see all the honour guards flying around.

What I'd like to see is orks get some sort of weapon that killed tanks. Hoping for a glancing with a rokkit to kill a landraider. Ouch. Especially against a landraider gunline... the idea makes my mekky skin crawl.

I loved the comment about how tau should have BS4 because they're a shooty army and they currently only have guardsmen accuracy. Did I miss the memo about guardsmen being CC beasts? At least the tau don't have to use lasguns...

1) Fewer people trying to powerplay their armies or nerf other armies of people that make them actually play the game rather than play their armies.

2) Fewer little kids grabbing my models and wrecking them!

3) Leave my Guard Tanks alone.

4) Leave my Guardsmen alone.

5) Give me back my command bubbles.

6) Fix Orks, you can take any mix of anything and they'll horde the table.

7) Update Dark Eldar, why not.

8) Leave my Guard Tanks ALONE!

9) Excommunicate Space Wolves. Like we really need them anyway.... (probably the most hyped up but otherwise insignificant army next to Squats).

10) All tanks, except Orks and Tau (who are supposed to be without depth perception), BS4. If your base infantry is BS3 and your a highly technologically advanced civilization, and you don't lack depth perception, your tanks probably have some sort of targeting system, or even just their mass and smoother ride (over foot slogging) should help aiming your weapons.

I'd like to see Terminators T5, so they won't die as easily as marines to T8 weapons.

Also, Parihas should get more than one attack. Something with a CC weapon as good as a warscythe should get more attacks

Shuriken Catapults shouldnt be Ap5. A small spinning razor does not have equal penetration power as a heavy calibre explosive bolt