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Müller wrote:I haven't actually played the current ed. of 40k at all (one in-store game vs. store worker and his Tau) and then I didnt play with my CMS seeing as how I realized they changed the codex and pretty much fethed up my well themed (not a cheese CSM army like you could create with the old codex) so I havent even bothered to buy the new codex...

Ah sorry, the question; So can you apply the lash of submission upon units riding bikes, etc.?

I think you're missing out. I'd suggest "buying" the new codex from an online "store". That way you can look these things up. Also, Bikes are non-vehicle units, so they can be affected by the Lash of Submission.

Just so I don't take this wrong... did you wise-ass me or no? (Reason not having played the new ed. is that I've been out of the hobby for some time ;P)

He's obviously trying to suggest illegally downloading it.

Not that I'm trying to rat you out or anything. Though it's so blatantly obvious I'm not sure why you even bothered with quotes and didn't just come out and say it, LIKE A MAN!

Nono, he is Suggesting that Certain Swedish peoples from a Certain Bay might be able to help a fellow Compatriot

Some other really nasty uses of this power in the objective based 5th edition is to push enemy scoring units off objectives, generally also clumping them for blasts at the same time. I lost 56 orks in a single turn of shooting to that method.
Best way to deal with it is to kill the caster. If he's got you cringing out of sight he's probably winning anyway through force projection and ability to control the field. Luckily, T5 3+/5++ save 3 W monstrous creatures aren't too hard to take down from 24" for most armies, but a canny player can make it very difficult. I think the Lash is pretty broken, and not at all overated. One should be aware that Nurglitch likes to play devil's advocate for the generally accepted view on anything in 40K. Sometimes useful, but most of the time to be taken with a sprinkle of salt.

Nurglitch wrote:
Not to say it isn't a worthwhile psychic power to take, but just that people tend to vastly over-rate it.

Basically if armies including the Lash of Submission are giving you trouble, it's because you're asking for it.

You are wrong on this point. Lash is one of the most over powered abilities in the game, and the top tier chaos lists all have it (lash is what makes them top tier).

The ability to move your opponent’s models is extremely powerful, and the other top tier armies (Orks and Demons) have no counter to it.

Some armies can slow it down, but you can never stop it.

The new IG codex is going to have a defense against LoS in their psyker battle squads. If you reduce a sorcerer/DP's leadership to 2 they're going to have a hard time casting psychic powers.

@Blackmoor Orks are strong enough that having a weakness to psychic powers is not necessarily a bad thing. Plus, things like Killa Kans can tear a DP up, and cannot be targeted by the power, plus Battle-wagon oriented builds are very strong. They've got the cheapest AV 14 tank in the game.

Saying that you can "never stop" Lash of Submission is hyperbole at its most ridiculous. Killing the casters works just fine.

willydstyle wrote:
@Blackmoor Orks are strong enough that having a weakness to psychic powers is not necessarily a bad thing. Plus, things like Killa Kans can tear a DP up, and cannot be targeted by the power, plus Battle-wagon oriented builds are very strong. They've got the cheapest AV 14 tank in the game.

Saying that you can "never stop" Lash of Submission is hyperbole at its most ridiculous. Killing the casters works just fine.

Killing the casters is easier said than done. There is very little shooting that can take out a DP when he does not want to be taken out, and sorcerers can be buried deep into squads.

The typical ork builds of horde and nob bikers are slaughtered by lash armies. The rare builds that you listed might fare better until the Obilts kill the Kans/Battlewagons and then you are back to square 1.

I played at the Adepticon Invitational and there was nothing but a sea of Orks, Demons and Chaos and at the end it was Chaos that were all on all of the top tables.

Another nasty trick with the lash is to move tyranids out of synapse range (either the synapse node creature or the large broods of gaunts). It can REALLY ruin their day.

One unit of Trukk boyz can kill a slaaneshi daemon prince pretty easily, and it's not hard to get them into CC with whatever you want. Maybe mechanized orks aren't what people play, but maybe people just play what they hear is good, rather than figuring it out for themselves.

There are several players in my local scene that play those "rare" ork lists.

willydstyle wrote:The new IG codex is going to have a defense against LoS in their psyker battle squads. If you reduce a sorcerer/DP's leadership to 2 they're going to have a hard time casting psychic powers.

I Love how people still think this even though it's totally not true.

The Psyker squads reduce their leadership only until the end of your turn. Once the Opponent starts their turn it goes back to normal.

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:The new IG codex is going to have a defense against LoS in their psyker battle squads. If you reduce a sorcerer/DP's leadership to 2 they're going to have a hard time casting psychic powers.

I Love how people still think this even though it's totally not true.

The Psyker squads reduce their leadership only until the end of your turn. Once the Opponent starts their turn it goes back to normal.

Damn, that's too bad.

Yeah, but its still very useful, especially since you can cast it after all your shooting has been resolved, so you know the unit you're casting at has taken 25% casualties

Oh Look take Morale Test at Ld2, woops you failed! (OK OK I lie, with everything fearless nowadays it's pretty useless tbfh)

willydstyle wrote:One unit of Trukk boyz can kill a slaaneshi daemon prince pretty easily, and it's not hard to get them into CC with whatever you want. Maybe mechanized orks aren't what people play, but maybe people just play what they hear is good, rather than figuring it out for themselves.

There are several players in my local scene that play those "rare" ork lists.

I have experimented with mechanised orks in trukks. What I found (may be the local metagame) is that there isn't enough LOS blocking terrain on the average table to get any of your trukks in intact.

When I played against Lash with the Horde, I was doing reasonably well until I had a couple of turns bad luck and my opponent used them to his advantage wonderfully. It was a really fun game actually. I got pasted though .

Da Boss wrote:

willydstyle wrote:One unit of Trukk boyz can kill a slaaneshi daemon prince pretty easily, and it's not hard to get them into CC with whatever you want. Maybe mechanized orks aren't what people play, but maybe people just play what they hear is good, rather than figuring it out for themselves.

There are several players in my local scene that play those "rare" ork lists.

I have experimented with mechanised orks in trukks. What I found (may be the local metagame) is that there isn't enough LOS blocking terrain on the average table to get any of your trukks in intact.

When I played against Lash with the Horde, I was doing reasonably well until I had a couple of turns bad luck and my opponent used them to his advantage wonderfully. It was a really fun game actually. I got pasted though .

That's why you don't run only trukks, and you build some terrain for 5th ed The common local ork lists run two battlewagons, one with a KFF mech (measuring from the hull of the BW extends the range of the KFF considerably) and a couple of trukks to hide behind the battlewagons, and then zoom out when they can Waaaagh! and charge something.

Your words are but a pernicious jealousy given voice, Nurglitch, but I forgive you.

All the A-list Hollywood celebrities and attractive teenagers with better haircuts are saying Fzorgle because it's undisputably the better terminology. That you did not coin the term can not be held against you; it is a predicament shared by all of humanity, from the least to the greatest, from the dawn to the dusk of our species, apart from myself. And do not think of it as the fruit of my intellect, for it was an inevitability; had not I given it the name, another would have in my place. You rage not against me, nor against the name, you rage against the order of the universe itself. Let your anger pass, Nurglitch, for destiny has not dealt such an ill hand. Take comfort in that my name will fade too, in time, for what is Triggerbaby in the face of Fzorgle? The Fzorgle will remain long after my tomb lies forgotten and my last worshippers are but a footnote iin the dustiest of texts.

That was awesome, Triggerbaby

I'm pretty sure the mek has to be on the table to provide the KFF benefit. Ie. not in a battlewagon.

Wagons are certainly a better prospect than trukks, I haven't got the models to try out a wagon rush just yet, but I imagine it would work pretty well.

Nope, the mek can be in a Vehicle, and the effect is measured from the edge of the vehicle.

It's fun to lash orks out of cover so you hit them first clumping the nob such that he has to die.

G

Gwar! wrote:Nope, the mek can be in a Vehicle, and the effect is measured from the edge of the vehicle.

Hmmmm. I've seen that answered differently on many YMDC threads. Because he is no longer on the board? Did that change in fifth?

Gwar! wrote:Nope, the mek can be in a Vehicle, and the effect is measured from the edge of the vehicle.

Wow, that's pretty sneaky.

GG

It's a small blurb in the rulebook on page 66 under the "embarking" section:

"If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull."

I know that this is clarified to include psychic powers in the Eldar FAQ, and would assume that it includes the effects of the KFF as well.

Frankly I'm surprised that some players find it to be "sneaky" or surprising... it's something Ork players have always used here in Portland.

Da Boss wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Nope, the mek can be in a Vehicle, and the effect is measured from the edge of the vehicle.

Hmmmm. I've seen that answered differently on many YMDC threads. Because he is no longer on the board? Did that change in fifth?

Yup it changed. Now any effect that would be measured from a model is measued from the hull when embarked. So things like KFF and Psychic Powers and the Inquisitors Mystic "Shoot at Deep Striking Unit" malarkey are measured from the hull. This is a change from before when you were considered "not on the table" while in a vehicle.

Someday I'm going to go through that book with a highlighter or something and mark every change. It's the only way I'll remember!

Da Boss wrote:Someday I'm going to go through that book with a highlighter or something and mark every change. It's the only way I'll remember!

If you do this you become a champion of Tzeentch
bright colours+change=favour

I can't wait to put my Inquisitor Mystics inside Stormlords...

Worked great, John.

lash makes the current codex playable at a tier 1 level, plus it is fun to move your opponents models

No, you cant, you can make ME move them where you want, but as we said in the last thread, touch my models without permission and you get a broken hand.