Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why? Hasn't derailed or been anything less than civil thus far?

Well, you said that you wanted it to run its natural course. That only goes down the path to derailment.

Frazzled wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Everyones opinions deserve to be heard, regardless of whether or not you have already decided to agree or not.

Thats just stupid.
His opinion, the opinion of Joseph Stalin, Mengele, and anyone who's ever been on Jerry Springer do not deserve to be heard in any sort of respectful manner.

It's not really stupid.
I would listen to the freak show, because even information tailored to the home crowd is information that can be useful.

If the "Everyones opinions deserve to be heard" is said in the frame of some sort of moral equivalence, well, that's just naive

See, ideas are being called stupid. Thread derailment is imminent.

Definitely wasn't meant in the moral equivalence theme I can assure you.

The guy is a butthole to be sure, but does have some fair points about Israel. Just a shame about the B.S. about the Holocaust being a myth (where are the Jews then? Still round the back of the bike sheds sniggering?) and the rest of his hyperbole.

Context people. This Koolaid drinker was speaking AT THE UN HUMAN RIGHTS CONVENTION. Thats not even sane.

I think that hes like a clown put up for our own amusement. How many things can you take seriously when they come out of his mouth? Worried about him wanting to start the holocaust again, but besides that he's rather entertaining.

Frazzled wrote:Context people. This Koolaid drinker was speaking AT THE UN HUMAN RIGHTS CONVENTION. Thats not even sane.

Well, I didn't invite him.

Who did?

Sorry, that was me. I thought the place needed some entertainment for the night.

Considering he has some alleged influence on Militants etc, I think you should take him a good bit more seriously than you suggest Halonachos.

To quote Jarvis Cocker's excellent lyrics from the Pulp song 'I Spy'

'You see you should take me seriously.
Very seriously indeed.
Coz I've been sleeping with your with
For fifteen weeks.
Messing up the bed you chose together.
Smoking your cigarettes
Drinking your Brandy
And in all of that time, I just wanted you to come home unexpected one afternoon,
And catch us at it. In the front room'

He probably invited himself.
You know how some people can be.

I usually pull for the Israelis when things like this go down, but I would pose this question-

Which is scarier?

Iranians screaming that Israel need to be removed?

Or

Israelis not saying much?

B, especially if you hear what could be jet turbines starting up.

Israelis not saying much can imply that they are all dead so I will go with that.


Again, hasn't anyone noticed that Bush and Ahdmenijackoff look alike?

halonachos wrote:Israelis not saying much can imply that they are all dead so I will go with that.


Again, hasn't anyone noticed that Bush and Ahdmenijackoff look alike?

Or it implies the first wave of fighter bombers will be over your airfields in three...two...one...

Before or after they are all shot down? I live in America remember, we're not like Egypt or Syria and have more than 30 or so fighters.

Frazzled wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Everyones opinions deserve to be heard, regardless of whether or not you have already decided to agree or not.

Thats just stupid.
His opinion, the opinion of Joseph Stalin, Mengele, and anyone who's ever been on Jerry Springer do not deserve to be heard in any sort of respectful manner.

This is dakkadakka. Aren't we required to belittle weak opinions? I thought your account was frozen if you didn't.

What if the Iranian president has an account on dakka and is just some expert lurker?

I can't read Farsi.

Frazzled wrote:Er. no. You refute that with a pie to the face. You refute that by clandestinely giving his opponents billions of $. You refute it by NOT giving him air time.

So your answer is:

You talk hate.
So we will do hate.

Who hates more? Him or 'you', hint: its not him.

Frazzled wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Everyones opinions deserve to be heard, regardless of whether or not you have already decided to agree or not.

Thats just stupid.
His opinion, the opinion of Joseph Stalin, Mengele, and anyone who's ever been on Jerry Springer do not deserve to be heard in any sort of respectful manner.

Grotsnik is correct. This is a forum for delegates, he was a delegate at the forum and thus deseves a hearing. Furthermore as a de facto state leader his opinions are always topical. It is not like there is a global 'ignore troll' button to press. When even the worst monsters speak, Mugabe comes to mind here, it is worth to take heed to what they are saying.

Israel went too far by withdrawing their ambassador to Switzerland because the Swiss premier met Ahmadinejad. First Switzerland is neutral, it doesnt pick sides, second the man was a head of state and a guest in the country. It was common diplomatic coutesy to play host to him. all this happened before todays outbursts. Ahmadinejad goes too far but often he is condemned before he even speaks, just for turning up, and others are condemned for meeting him. In the world of international diplomacy this is not a good thing. It is one thing to drown out a poor leaders word, it is another thing altogether to drwon him out for factional reasons. On the international stage, and especially the UN, every government should be entreated with.

When it gets to the stage where host nations face diplomatic repurcusions for even allowing leaders to attend and not cold shouldering them I see darker problems than the reaction to words spoken. Drowning out diplomatic voices, especially when done under the false guise of protesting against discriminatory comments sets us on a dangerous partisan road.

Agree with the above. Paying no heed and ingoring doesn't make him go away.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Exactly. And not one of the people he claims to be a bunch of bastards so much as gave him the time of day.

Way to work against his propaganda.

Had people walked out on a British or US delegate, we'd never hear the end of it.

Sit. Listen. Refute. Simples.

Frazz, I didn't say the various delegates had to respect his views, but they still deserve to be heard, regardless.

If the representative of UK or US was a holocaust denier or believed the jews were behind 9/11, then there wouldn't be much surprise about a walk out.

It's actually a pretty tricky subject, because admission into Israel is based on ethnic identity. Technically its religion but when the primary determinant of the religion is the ethnicity of your mother, it's really a race thing. Now that in itself is fine, but Israel occupies a large amount of land inhabited by hundreds of thousands of people to whom it will not grant citizenship, but who are forced to work within the Israeli syste, albeit as secondary citizens. So yeah, there really is a debate to be had about the basically racist foundation of Israel and the impact that has on the lives of a lot of people. Unfortunately there's blokes like Ahmadinejad, who are nutburger racists, and they don't have anything to contribute to the debate. Nothing wrong with saying 'this guy isn't constructive to the discussion we won't pretend he has anything useful to say about this'.


And it is also very, very important to remember he may be President, but that position isn't the same in Iran as it is in the US. He's about 10th in power in total, because Iran is not a complete democracy, all the positions of major power are unelected. For the most part, they're a lot more, well... not nice, but a lot more sensible than Ahmadinejad.

Frazzled wrote:Er. no. You refute that with a pie to the face. You refute that by clandestinely giving his opponents billions of $. You refute it by NOT giving him air time.

Yeah! It's a great idea to start pumping money into the enemies of Iran... how did that Sadam thing work out anyway?

Isn't it oh so ironic that Israel calls someone a racist?

As for it being surrounded by enemies - while their presence wasn't welcome in their early years (and frankly, no one else wanted them anywhere - hence why they were dropped there) now it's evolved to a point that nobody likes them because of what they do rather than what they were.

So, instead of voicing their protests or trying to talk about it, which is what should be done at a conference like this to promote peace, they throw a fit and leave the conference. Of course, this wouldn't happen if Israel didn't have the military muscle it has, as well as support from the States.

Israel probably really doesn't mind Ahmadinejad being in power. He's the international face of 'jew haters are stoopid', and hence he is a great deterrent against anyone addressing the actual problems with Israel.

You know, this is one of the predictions of how the world would end.

Israel and Iran go to war, and I mean full blown war. America comes to the aid of Israel and Russia then comes to the aid of Iran. Then bam, end of the world.

When it comes to Israel being a country I blame France.

halonachos wrote:You know, this is one of the predictions of how the world would end.

Israel and Iran go to war, and I mean full blown war. America comes to the aid of Israel and Russia then comes to the aid of Iran. Then bam, end of the world.

When it comes to Israel being a country I blame France.

No blame the British for the breakup of the Middle East into strange little states that follow now ethnic boundaries.

Blame the French for Escargo
PRaise the French for Crazy Horse!

I will praise the french for NOTHING!! NO PRAISE FOR YOU FRENCHIE!!

The Israel problem is in a large part about how England handled things.
As is the Pakistan/ India problem.
Not to mention a large percentage of the Islamic terrorists are from Pakistan.

But anyway - if Palestinians were white Europeans, then I don't think we'd be happy about their treatment in Israel. So it's really no surprise other Arab nations are pissed.

(Though there are white skinned, blue-eyed, blond haired Palestinians)