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Anung Un Rama wrote:That Strike Force almost makes me want to play "normal" Guard

That Strike Force definitely makes me want to play normal Guard.

Especially as "normal" Guard is more-or-less reasonably priced and gets really awesome Apoc stuff when you take 3+ Platoons.

Necros wrote:That stormtrooper one sounds good. I plan to invest in a valk squadron, so all I'd need is 1 more unit of stormtroopers eventually...

Does anyone besides HBMC own 12 HW squads?

I own 10 of each type in Cadian, another about another 6 of each in Catachan. So 16*5= 80. Yeah. Got it.

I like the data sheet for the storm troopers thats real nice, its a shame they didnt actually give them that rule in their regular dex, they let vets take center stage

grizgrin wrote:I own 10 of each type in Cadian, another about another 6 of each in Catachan. So 16*5= 80. Yeah. Got it.

Wait, wait. 10 HW Teams, or 10 HW Squads? Big difference there. If you have 10 HW Squads of each type for Cadians, then a further 6 squads of each type for Catachans, then you have 240 HW Teams. Do you have 240 HW Teams (480 Guardsmen!), 'cause that's excessive even by my standards.

Wow, look at me and my illiterate self! Nah man, it's just teams. Thanks for catchin me on that, I'd hate to add to the rumor and bs mill.

10 HW TEAMS in each of 5 heavy weapons (Cadian). 6 HW TEAMS in each of 5 heavy weapons (Catachan). 80 teams total.

EDIT: Heh. I had actually been thinking before I finished that post that some of these quotes sounded kinda...low."

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well about 5 of Dakka's most repected members and about 5 or so newbies are all actually sockpuppets of mine, and I use them to go into threads and ask questions about me so I can boost my own ego.

Translation: I don't know why everyone's so interested in what I have. I'm just answering questions!

Maybe the rank and file of Guard players here on Dakka just recognize your experience. Its only natural that the resident senior Guard commander attracts attention. It could be said that you are the unofficial Warmaster of the Guard Regiments mustered here .

I am but a student of Janthkin, A-P, and will defer to him in all matters of Guard... ok most matters. I'm sure they are areas where we disagree.

I've been playing guard for like 3 years now and I have only 6 HW teams :( I'm such a noob.

I do have 6-7 large bases laying around and I keep planning to make new teams out of the extra weapons and men I have, I just never get around to it :( too many projects and too little time

I do think 12 squads is a bit much for that datasheet though. I would have rather seen them do it more like bringing back the heavy weapon platoons, maybe with a 4+ squads requirement or something like that.

IG Datasheets are designed to drive sales of sub-optimal models (Tide of Spawn, anyone?).

The HWP Datasheet is designed to sell a lot of Heavy Weapons models, which aren't nearly so good with the T3 W2 nonsense. And the special rule pretty much crushes potential use of mixed Heavies in the unit.

The StormTrooper thing, isn't going to make them good, particularly at a 150-pt additional cost.

JohnHwangDD wrote:IG Datasheets are designed to drive sales of sub-optimal models (Tide of Spawn, anyone?).

The HWP Datasheet is designed to sell a lot of Heavy Weapons models, which aren't nearly so good with the T3 W2 nonsense. And the special rule pretty much crushes potential use of mixed Heavies in the unit.

The StormTrooper thing, isn't going to make them good, particularly at a 150-pt additional cost.

Not in 3000pt games, but the bigger the game, the better that vital objective becomes. Nobody can castle up on an objective like IG, and being able to score twice for holding an objective in your own DZ tilts the table pretty dramatically in favor of the IG. That's worth 150pts regardless of what the stormtroopers do. 16pts a peice for a superior bladestorm at AP3 and -1 to cover? That makes stormtroopers at least viable in an anti-meq role, as 7 troopers (not counting sarge and specials) will get 28 shots, 18.66 hits, 6.22 wounds, and even in 4+ cover they'll kill four marines. Add in two plasma guns and a plasma pistol (because, why not at the point), and not counting Get's Hot losses, you'll get 10 shots, 6.666 hits, 5.555 wounds, and in 4+ cover kill ~3 more. That's just not bad. It becomes more interesting if you take meltas, and shoot at one vehicle, run to get in range of another, and then either peform the death blow on the first or light up a second.

I don't think it's worth buying 30 stormtroopers for, but if you own 30 stormtroopers (like I do), that data sheet is gold in 5000pts and above.

JohnHwangDD wrote:IG Datasheets are designed to drive sales of sub-optimal models (Tide of Spawn, anyone?).

A bit cynical but knowing GW,s track record entirely believable. And yes, Tide of Spawn is the Suck.

@Polonius: While there's no denying that Vital Objective is a great thing, the opportunity cost of taking Storms & Valks is pretty high. Thing is, I could take Vital Objective as my base strategem and build around other, better Datasheet formations to get more synergistic bonuses overall.

Now I agree that double-double-tapping makes Storms not totally suck as their effective shooting cost comes down. But in Apoc, I can take 3 units of 5-10 Scoring ISTs at 10 pts each, and put them in Vendettas.

stompa hunters are a real win


10 sentinels as a unit

+1 to pen rolls when near command sent.

can fire twice (but may not move or shoot next turn) in a single turn

makes these guys last turn heroes

And yes, Tide of Spawn is the Suck.

Tide of Spawn may suck... but it's a great boxed set when you want to build 9 Beasts of Nurgle... there's like 64 bazillion bits in that box!

The Stompa Hunters can Fuzzy-Wuzzy a Titan.

That's pretty cool, actually.

Tho, to make it really work, you need 10 Lascannon Sentinels. If you had Multi-Melta Sentinels, it'd be a no-brainer. So let's look at the costs...

Lascannon Sentinels are 55+15 = 70 pts each, so you're paying 700+ pts for the models, + 100 pts for the Datasheet = 800 pts total.

That's 20 Lascannon shots, of which 10 will hit. S9+1 vs AV14 means you need 4s, so that's about 2 Glancing and 3 Penetrating Hits. So you'll probably drop enemy Void Shields and get a scratch on the target.

In Apoc, for 750 pts, you can, instead take a single Warhound Titan with a pair of R96" SD dual Turbo-Laser Destructors. This is a BS4 model that would score 4 SD hits on the same target...

Over the same 2-turn timeframe, the Sentinels are shut down while the Warhound lays down another 4 SD pie plates.

So, while the Sentinels are good, the same points in a Warhound is *much* better.

Point for point, the Warhound is clearly better.

Only the Warhound isn't easily accessed by everybody.

True, it's a whopping 300 GBP for the Warhound, so you'll pay nearly twice as much vs a "mere" $250 USD for the Sentinels.

This, of course, is why I'm just going to wait for the plastic Warhound to release.

Are we supposed to be looking at competitiveness in Apoc? I thought it was about taking what was the coolest, like 20+ Deffkoptas with that datasheet and 10 leman russes with theirs. I didn't realize we were actually trying to be competitive?!

Some people look at effectiveness - particularly when you're looking at laying out cash for new models.

Ozymandias wrote:Are we supposed to be looking at competitiveness in Apoc? I thought it was about taking what was the coolest, like 20+ Deffkoptas with that datasheet and 10 leman russes with theirs. I didn't realize we were actually trying to be competitive?!

I'd say that 'useful' would be a nice middle ground Ozy, which the HW Company certainly isn't.

I think the new datasheets are great. They bring some of the new flavor from the new codex into Apocalypse. I can't wait to try them out.