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Sidstyler wrote:I thought one of the advantages of plastic models was cheaper pricing...so what the hell was the point?

Quoted from my local red shirt " You will find it to be a blessing now they are in plastic! which means more modelling possibilities! "

* I just noticed 5 people actually voted for pricing error . Does GW really deserve such faith from their customers?

Modeling possibilities? For WHF models? You're basically looking at sword up or sword down, I can't imagine many Fantasy players go nuts on conversions since it makes ranking them up a bit more difficult.

LunaHound wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I thought one of the advantages of plastic models was cheaper pricing...so what the hell was the point?

Quoted from my local red shirt " You will find it to be a blessing now they are in plastic! which means more modelling possibilities! "

* I just noticed 5 people actually voted for pricing error . Does GW really deserve such faith from their customers?

Typical sock puppet talk, I wouldn't be too surprised if the manager was standing behind him with his arm up his arse.

Jin wrote:My guess is they figured "Hey, currently, it's about $50 to buy 10 of these guys including command! Why not package them in 10's and make 'em only $42? Awesome! Notwithstanding that these are now plastic minis...."

It's really daft.

Especially considering that the amazing Cold One Knights box set costs less than these guys with roughly the same number of models.

From what i've heard around gw, this ones the truth of it. The company sees this as a price decrease and does not show any distinction between metal/plastic. In thier eyes £25 for 10 greatswords is a steal as they are cheaper than what they were. (incedentally they make the same argument with the steam tank.... but its the same price as a Valkyrie and at least with respect to sheer volume of plastic nowhere near as big).

This is really ominous. I think the main reason is that a unit of 10 of these guys is a decent unit (or at least you wouldn't bother playing 20). Therefore people will only buy 1 (if they use them at all).

Regular state troops you need probably at least 4 boxes of, hence the $22 price tag.

What scares me though is this:

Back when everything was metal, you'd pay (say) $40 for 10 models.

Out come plastics and at first we're paying $25/$30 for 16-20 models.

But GW is aware that the public has previously accepted paying more.

Regiments move to $35-$40 for 16-20, but then they start releasing them in units of 10 for $22-25.

Now we're paying $22-25 for something that we showed 6-7 years ago we were happy to pay $40 for.

GW knows that they can price creep up to around the $40 range. Of course they can justify the price - e.g. it's cheaper than the metals were.

What scares me is that, as posters have noted, units like cold one knights, marauder cav, chaos knights etc are WAY cheaper than this (and great deals imo). How long can they possibly stay at this price.

I do LOVE the greatsword sculpts. And I'll probably buy them.

Certainly the battalion looks like a better bet now:

20 state troops - $44
10 handgunners - $22
8 knights - $35
10 greatswords - $42

That's $143 going for $105. Not too shabby (even though it's really only $123 value since the greatswords should cost less...

I dunno. Maybe someday 5 plastic termies will be $20 like they're supposed to be. I know I'd buy more chaos termies if they were cheaper.

Sidstyler wrote:I thought one of the advantages of plastic models was cheaper pricing FOR GW

Fixed for you.
They make them cheaper and sell them to us for more.
Greater profit. Brilliant!

Yeah, already answered, elite unit, sells less and on a strict basis it's still a price cut.

Use state troops and the great sword arms from Empire Militia and save a bundle.

Sidstyler wrote:I thought one of the advantages of plastic models was cheaper pricing...so what the hell was the point?

Actually, the advantage to plastics is the insane detail and the complete and utter lack of imperfections. You might have to sand off a couple of mold lines but you end up with a much more detailed, highly convertable fig that you don't have to worry about going over with green stuff. I have a lot of metal models that just bug the ever living crap out of me. They're missing eyes. There are chunks missing where chunks shouldn't be missing. Just when you think everything is all good there's a big lack of detail where the glob of metal covered it over. Metal feels heavy. That's about it. It's inferior to plastic in every other way. If plastic models were so cheap and easy to produce then more of these "garage workshop" game companies would be producing plastics rather than metal bits or resin bits that are riddled with imperfections.

Methinks you know little about the miniature industry beyond what's been spoon-fed to you by Red Shirts, artyboy.

Plastic models are surely more detailed now than they used to be, and they can be posed in many different ways, but they sure as hell don't hold more detail than a metal model (they're about on the same level as far as that goes), and you're outright lying when you say they never need to be filled with green stuff. Every plastic tank and model (besides infantry) that I've ever built begs to differ.

And LOLZ @ "complete and utter lack of imperfections". You must be new to GW and the miniatures hobby in general since you've never bought a plastic kit with miscast parts. And the bad thing about miscast plastic is that the only real way to fix it is with a new, expensive mold...for instance, Tau players will know about that famous pair of fire warrior legs on the fire warrior sprue, it's always going to be miscast, you can't just phone up customer service and get a new, free replacement that isn't fethed up. And while we're talking Tau, the fire warrior crew in the Tau piranha kit are also not that impressively detailed, and that one used to be a FW resin model so I don't know how you can mess that up.

Anyway, the point is plastic is not perfect like you think, and while it has its advantages over metal you shouldn't start making gak up, like claiming that plastic models never need to be filled and never have imperfections. But other than THAT, I agree with you, I don't think metal has any obvious advantages over plastic...it's heavier, harder to work with, and while you could argue about the level of detail that's possible with metal, in my opinion it has more to do with the quality of the sculpt than the material its cast out of. There are some plastic kits that look either just as good or in rare cases better than their metal counterparts (but that's pretty rare, like I said before they're mostly on the same level for details if you ask me...the only plastic-is-better-than-metal kit I can think of is terminators at the moment).

Some things come out better in plastic than metal - such as flat vehicle panels. Other things come out better in metal than in plastic - such as fur cloaks and hair.

Space Marines were designed for plastic (lots of large flat areas), which is why they work so well in that medium. Anything mroe "human" and with lots fo fine detail and undercuts (e.g. clothing) always works better in metal. Of course with recent improvements in sprue-construction, then a multi-part plastic kit can get around much of the limitations of plastic, for the trad-off of creating multi-part models that need to be glued together, instead of a handy 1-piece mono-pose model.

Another advantage of plastic over metal. from the producer's point of view, is shipping costs. It is a lot cheaper to ship 100 cases of plastic than it is to ship 100 cases of metal. For a global company like GW, the savings in shipping would be significant, especially as fuel costs continue to rise.

I've just clapped eyes on the 3 ups for the perry miniatures War of Roses range.

The price of Perry plastics is about 18 pounds for 36-40 miniatures and as I'm sure you can see the level of detail puts the new Empire bits to shame.

All I can say is GW be damned, if I was going to do an Empire army it would consist of these bad boys. I'm sure if enough people do this GW will soon start to pay attention.

Oooo! Good find, Lucius!

Those are simply over the fething top ace. I'll be keeping my eyes out for those.

Wow those are excellent that puts GW to shame.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Yeah, already answered, elite unit, sells less and on a strict basis it's still a price cut.

Use state troops and the great sword arms from Empire Militia and save a bundle.

I have to say I don't buy this.

Take the Flagellants. Previously around £50 for 20, and now a far cheaper £24 for 20. Less if you're lucky and can track down the 20 box (£20 from memory?).

So the Greatswords...buggered if I know.

Jin wrote:Oooo! Good find, Lucius!

Thanks. Currently there is no release date for this range but the 3 ups you can see are from the first boxed set which will be called 'Bill and Bow', unsurprising as the Bill was the most common infantry weapon in the WotR. The miniatures will make very fine halberdiers and archers for any Empire army.

Pikemen, Handguns and Crossbows were also used in the WotR so it wouldn't surprise me if these were to follow in another set. Heavy Cav which bear a striking resemblance to Empire knights (or more accurately the other way round) were also common so an alternative knight set may also appear.

Swords however are another matter as the were a very rare weapon in the WotR. So you will be unlikely to get greatswords or Swordsmen from this range. However 28mm miniatures armed with Zweihänder must be out there somewhere (and for a Damn sight cheaper than £25 for 10!)

There is no news on other releases in this range as of yet but knowing the Perrys (bless them) more will follow.

Over here, Greatswords cost more than a Stegadon, and the new Stank is the same as a Fire Prism. GW, what the hell is going on?