North Korea ditches armistice, threatens force

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**sebster**

warpcrafter wrote:Yes, Seoul would be flattened, and North Korea would most likely be so messed up that it would look even more like that show "Life after people" than it does now, but it's looking more and more like it's gonna happen. We need to get a couple of carrier battle groups and some cruise missile ships and some drone control teams over there. We could launch a preemptive high-tech strike from hell on them that would leave them wondering if they ever had a military in the first place.

Or we could not initiate a war that'd kill a million people. Yes, this is a serious situation but right now all we have is a threatening statement, and every possible to step to avoid war should be taken.

**avantgarde**

nvm I should read the thread.

**dogma**

sebster wrote:
But there are more than 1,000 conventional artillery pieces in place right now that can hit Seoul. While any military engagement would be outrageously one-sided, the civilian casualties among the S Koreans could be enormous.

And that doesn't even factor in the likely use of artillery rockets loaded with chemical or biological warheads. In the event of North/South hostilities Seoul would effectively cease to exist.

**Cheese Elemental**

I hope the South Korean government has the foresight to set up an evacuation plan and anti-air defences.

**sebster**

Cheese Elemental wrote:I hope the South Korean government has the foresight to set up an evacuation plan and anti-air defences.

I'm not certain, but I don't think it matters. To meaningfully evacuate a city you're looking in terms of days. If war is declared by N Korea and a coalition force (NATO or something representing most of its members) responds, the destruction of the conventional forces around Seoul would be measured in hours. So I think you could remove the threat far quicker than you could evacuate the city, it's just that by then you'd looking at immense destruction.

Getting people into safe points in the city is probably a lot better than getting them out of the city.

**avantgarde**

Isn't Seoul like 30 something miles away from the DMZ?

Does NoKo even have conventional arty that can hit that far?

*edit*

Huh, found this article: http://www.redorbit.com/news/international/551403/north_korean_guns_clear_and_present_danger_to_south/index.html

The 170 mms have a range of 60 km, so barely. Apparently the US has a counter-barrage plan.

**Dreadwinter**

I wonder how the world is going to be in about 10-15 years, when the last of the old world crazy ass dictators has bit the dust.

How many we got left anyways?

**Evil Eli**

Dreadwinter wrote:I wonder how the world is going to be in about 10-15 years, when the last of the old world crazy ass dictators has bit the dust.

How many we got left anyways?

One too many.

**Frazzled**

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:
Cheese Elemental wrote:If he really does push his nation into war, he doesn't deserve any mercy, because he's condemning thousands of innocent people without any sensible reason.

I'm not sure of Kim Yong-il's history though. Is he like Robert Mugabe, a hero who became a mad dictator?

Far as I know, Kim Jong hasn't had his military rape, mutilate, and kill innocent women and little girls to ensure his power. He's still fething nuts, and one of his generals is gonna see this and out one between those outrageous sunglasses of his.

Your lack of education is frightening in its depth. North Korea has the world's largest concentration camp. North Korean policy is that your family suffers for THREE generations for any perceived crimes. Thats right grandparents and children in the camps.

Next time before you type something it would be good if you actually did a little research before spewing forth nonsense.
http://indianchristians.in/news/content/view/680/45/

Kim Young-soon said North Korea was "a place that should disappear from the earth". She estimated that six or seven out of every 100 people died in Yodok Political Prison Camp Number 15 in one year. She herself spent eight years at the camp.

Kim Tae-jin suffered various tortures in the same prison, including being beaten with burning wood and being forced to sit on burning quicklime. "I realised pain can be more dreadful than death," he said. Kim said lack of food at the camp was a continual ordeal.

"One meal consists of a handful of corn kernels and they mix it with some edible tree leaves and they add some salt." He said he caught and ate rats, snakes and frogs to supplement his rations.

http://www.newser.com/story/45015/23-years-in-a-north-korean-prison-camp.html

Shin describes the daily horrors of life inside Kim Jong-Il's gulags, from fire torture to mutilation. He committed no crime—he was born in the camp—and is struggling to adjust to life in the South 3 years after his escape.

Guards cut off the tip of Shin's middle finger for accidentally dropping a sewing machine at the factory where he performed slave labor. Later, he was dangled over a fire and pierced with a steel hook to force him to confess to an escape plot he knew nothing of. He spent 7 months in an underground cell, to be released only to watch his mother hanged and brother shot to death

http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/north-korea/page.do?id=1011213

**reds8n**

Yeah NK has been a horror story for a long time now.

Still when you're as good at golf as the Beloved Leader is you can do that sort of thing I suppose.

The most extreme claim came from the North Korean Ministry of Information, which reported that dictator Kim Jong-Il had 11 holes in one in his first attempt at golf.

Take that Tiger Woods!

**Frazzled**

He would have had twelve, but he had to kidnap some Japanese and send some spies south between the 9th and 10th holes.

**reds8n**

He's a good sport like that.

After all, no one likes a show off.

**Frazzled**

Exactly. He doesn't like to be a showoff.

**Napalm**

As long as the Chinese don't back them the North Koreans have nothing. The only reason that miserable country exists is because of China.

**JD21290**

Great, another war threat.
Rather not go out to korea -_-
cant we just bomb em and tell them to fething be quiet?

**Frazzled**

Don't worry JD1290, we've been at war with North Korea since 1951 (it never ended). NK reminds us about once a month by re-declaring war. Its like a 3 year old-they throw a tanrum if we ignore them. We should ignore them now. As stated I'm all for pulling evrything out of there. There's no reason we should be defending South Korea.

But if they even blink funny at us directly, nuke every square inch of North Korea.

**dietrich**

I say we airdrop weapons all across the North Korean countryside and let the North Koreans deal with Kim Jong.

**Frazzled**

Now thats thinking outside the box.

Having said that, I'm still up for the invasion of Switzerland, Brazil, and Tahiti. The reasons are obvious

**dietrich**

It's the same thing we should have done with Iraq. Just airdrop weapons. If you give a person something for 'free' (in Iraq's case, it's allegedly democracy), they don't want it. ("Saddam was an awful man, but at least we had electricity for 8 hours a day." aka, "Mussolini made the trains run on time.") If they have to earn it, they value it. If the dictator is really so hated and opressive, arm the populace, and they'll topple him, and form the government that they want. If in 20 years, it's another tin-can dictator running the country, repeat. Let the population determine their own fate.

Do you really think that the factions in Iraq want to be a single country, and wouldn't rather be separate countries? Turkey will never allow the Kurds to seceed, because then all their Kurds will want to.

**LunaHound**

Frazzled wrote:
Your lack of education is frightening in its depth. North Korea has the world's largest concentration camp. North Korean policy is that your family suffers for THREE generations for any perceived crimes. Thats right grandparents and children in the camps.
Kim Tae-jin suffered various tortures in the same prison, including being beaten with burning wood and being forced to sit on burning quicklime. "I realised pain can be more dreadful than death," he said. Kim said lack of food at the camp was a continual ordeal.
"One meal consists of a handful of corn kernels and they mix it with some edible tree leaves and they add some salt." He said he caught and ate rats, snakes and frogs to supplement his rations.

Shin describes the daily horrors of life inside Kim Jong-Il's gulags, from fire torture to mutilation. He committed no crime—he was born in the camp—and is struggling to adjust to life in the South 3 years after his escape.

Guards cut off the tip of Shin's middle finger for accidentally dropping a sewing machine at the factory where he performed slave labor. Later, he was dangled over a fire and pierced with a steel hook to force him to confess to an escape plot he knew nothing of. He spent 7 months in an underground cell, to be released only to watch his mother hanged and brother shot to death

**JD21290**

this will sounds evil and very cruel (like most of my posts)

but i think we should just keep out of it.
it has no effect on us (i know, cruel) but why keep getting dragged into everyone elses problems?
our country is falling apart and what do we do? spend what money we do have helping out another country.

Failing that, send out a small tac unit of SAS and get rid of the prick with a single bullet.

**youngblood**

Simply put, it's far more complex than simply sticking up for human rights or trying to control oil, international affairs are obscenely complicated. This shouldn't be pinned solely on Mr. Bush, there are other countries in the UN after all. If people would stop looking to America to be the World Police, maybe we would stop acting like it.

**Frazzled**

this will sounds evil and very cruel (like most of my posts)

but i think we should just keep out of it.
it has no effect on us (i know, cruel) but why keep getting dragged into everyone elses problems?
our country is falling apart and what do we do? spend what money we do have helping out another country.

Simply put, it's far more complex than simply sticking up for human rights or trying to control oil, international affairs are obscenely complicated. This shouldn't be pinned solely on Mr. Bush, there are other countries in the UN after all. If people would stop looking to America to be the World Police, maybe we would stop acting like it.

Agreed and agreed. The US and UN (in its one shining moment of glory) already fought one war there. Our interest is to keep them from spreading nukes, but that’s its. South Korea is a big boy now. Time to let them take care of themselves.

**JD21290**

This is why i do admire some of hitlers views (dont panic, im not a genocidal maniac)
he believed he could control the world through sheer violence, force of will and fear.
in retospect that is the only way you can control the world (and still not 100% effective)

we cannot control a country, helping them out would simply lose our own troops in a battle which isnt ours.
if we decide to fight, then we should be taking the country from them, not helping them.

either we leave them, or we take over 100%

and having the experience of being thown into the battlefield im pleased to say im pissed off with fighting for no fething reason atall, why would i want to risk my life for something that is none of my buisness?

**youngblood**

JD21290 wrote:
and having the experience of being thown into the battlefield im pleased to say im pissed off with fighting for no fething reason atall, why would i want to risk my life for something that is none of my buisness?

clearly it became your business then.

**JD21290**

clearly it became your business then.

Well since i had no say in it then yes, it did become my buisness, but not by choice.

**Cheese Elemental**

JD21290 wrote:This is why i do admire some of hitlers views (dont panic, im not a genocidal maniac)
he believed he could control the world through sheer violence, force of will and fear.
in retospect that is the only way you can control the world (and still not 100% effective)

we cannot control a country, helping them out would simply lose our own troops in a battle which isnt ours.
if we decide to fight, then we should be taking the country from them, not helping them.

either we leave them, or we take over 100%

and having the experience of being thown into the battlefield im pleased to say im pissed off with fighting for no fething reason atall, why would i want to risk my life for something that is none of my buisness?

Because if NK takes SK, they're going to attack somebody else.

And honestly, how can you have such views? So what, if your allied countries are under attack, you'd march in there and take it all for yourself? What good will that do? It will only incite more violence and a guerilla war would start.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JD21290 wrote:
clearly it became your business then.

Well since i had no say in it then yes, it did become my buisness, but not by choice.

You were the one who joined the army. What were you expecting, a part-time job which consists of shining your boots and parading around every few weeks? No siree, you join the army, you're expected to fight.

**youngblood**

JD21290 wrote:
clearly it became your business then.

Well since i had no say in it then yes, it did become my buisness, but not by choice.

That sucks. But hey, in the words of the famous Major Payne "Killing is my business and business is good"

**JD21290**

Because if NK takes SK, they're going to attack somebody else.

You have proof of this how?
and if they do attack us then we have a reason to fight back.

And honestly, how can you have such views? So what, if your allied countries are under attack, you'd march in there and take it all for yourself? What good will that do? It will only incite more violence and a guerilla war would start.

Well, seems every country we "free" from thier problems either turns on us, or feths it up again, they lose out, and we lose our ladies and lads that helped out in the 1st place.

and i have my views simply because thats how i think, watch a good friend of yours laying on the slab and then tell me it wasnt pointless.

You were the one who joined the army. What were you expecting, a part-time job which consists of shining your boots and parading around every few weeks? No siree, you join the army, you're expected to fight.

Of course i knew i was going to fight, to defend this country.
Not some other country simply because they are having problems and some tosser in a suit thinks we should help.
there is something i didnt expect when i joined the army though, and that was some loud mouthed bastard voicing his political views at me over a computer when i couldnt really give a feth what he has to say.
hows that for indirect fire?

That sucks. But hey, in the words of the famous Major Payne "Killing is my business and business is good"

Killing is no buisness, its just something that needs to be done.
child with a gun? if he open fire on your unit you open fire back, child or not he is putting your lives in danger.
not as easy as it sounds, but if you dont then your 6 feet under for having emotions.

**Frazzled**

Because if NK takes SK, they're going to attack somebody else.

If they attack SK, then SK will kick their teeth in. The populace of NK is starving-they can't compete. But if they win they win. Sucks to be SK but they should have quit lazing about and built a bigger military.

If they attack someone else again-why do I care?
*China. I'm totally down with that watching China obliterate them in 4.7 seconds.
*Japan. I'm totally down with that watching Japan obliterate them 7.4 seconds.

Who else? They have no ability to project power and they are in a neighborhood of industrial powerhouses that should have equally strong militaries. Iuf they don't its because they were nationwide welfare moochers mooching off the protection of the US.

I want men like JD12120 to do their job and what they signed up-to protect the US and its citizens. Not the citizens of every country in the world. After all, haven't you heard? We're the great Satan, if only the US weren't illegally assaulting countries the world would be a paradise and there would be no wars ever again, as there weren't before the US unilaterally started WWII. Thats what I keep being told.