Teleportation

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**Emperors Faithful**

Orkeosaurus wrote:
The tau aren't actually the Japanese.

Close enough. One could certainly be forgiven for thinking so. God help any space whales in 40k. (Do Hive fleets count?)

Anyway, orks to not truly UNDERSTAND how stuff works, they know it DOES work and how to make it work, but not HOW it works.
The Tau understand their tech.

Imperium is a lot like orks now actually, rellying heavily on STCs (manuals) for anything.

Please point out the most advanced orky stuff, and I will try to list stuff that beats it.

Zzapp Gun:
-Termie Teleporters
-Warp Spiders
...Actually, they are pretty much the only stuff that teleports.

**Orkeosaurus**

Emperors Faithful wrote:Close enough. One could certainly be forgiven for thinking so. God help any space whales in 40k. (Do Hive fleets count?)

Void Whales do.

Anyway, orks to not truly UNDERSTAND how stuff works, they know it DOES work and how to make it work, but not HOW it works.
The Tau understand their tech.

That's half true. Meks understand quite a bit of engineering and physics, but they generally understand these things on a basic, subconscious level. They don't study them abstractly, so they only understand the concepts in relation to their technological use, and they're probably not able to communicate anything about them beyond "ded shooty" unless they're talking to another mek.

Imperium is a lot like orks now actually, rellying heavily on STCs (manuals) for anything.

Orks never rely on templates, though. They rely on templates less than anyone else. Different mek inventions use the same principles, but most have a huge amount of variation between them.

Please point out the most advanced orky stuff, and I will try to list stuff that beats it.

Zzapp Gun:
-Termie Teleporters
-Warp Spiders
...Actually, they are pretty much the only stuff that teleports.

You're actually thinking of a Shokk Attack Gun, Zzap Guns shoot lightning (also fairly advanced, but not quite as useful, unfortunately).

Terminator teleporters aren't more advanced than the SAG, they're stationed aboard huge ships. Warp Spider jump packs are advanced, but they're used in such a different manner it's hard to compare. For one thing, though, they teleport in short bursts instead of huge snotling waves, and they have a much more limited range.

The fluff teleporters used by orks (such as the ones on Armageddon) are even better. They transported a huge number of orks, a feat that the Imperium would have a great deal of trouble trying to match. (Eldar webways are great in that regard, of course, but that's using the webway network.)

Also, Kustom Force Fields can protect a huge area while still being carried by one ork. I don't know of anything that can compare to that; the dire avenger shimmer-shield is similar, but only covers one unit. I think Azrael has something similar as well, but I'm also pretty sure that's a one-of-a-kind artifact.

**orkishlyorkish**

Lukus83 wrote:I would seriously doubt the orks are masters of any technology.

Ghazkull made a deal with a warlord who had a bunch of meks. He traded an alliance for the information on how to make teleporta's. Also the shokk attack gun.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orkesaurus, thing is meks have absolutely NO knowledge. They only have skill, big difference

**Orkeosaurus**

It says plainly in the ork codex that they have an inherent knowledge of technological principles. If you don't like the wording take it up with Games Workshop.

**orkishlyorkish**

Orkeosaurus wrote:It says plainly in the ork codex that they have an inherent knowledge of technological principles. If you don't like the wording take it up with Games Workshop.

GW has bad gramar

If you are born with something it is a skill, if you learn something it is knowledge. Meks never study anything they are just born with the skill.

**Emperors Faithful**

Well they do kind of experiment.

Anyway, I believe we can all agree that Ork tech is the least RELIABLE.

While the Shock Attack Gun does teleport snotlings, half of them get sucked into the warp or driven insane. A very bad ratio compared to the ability of Spaz Marinz and Eldar. Also, Spaz marinz teleport HUGE differences.

Ork tech gets more gretchin and boys killed than the enemy. That much is certain.

...Orkesaurus, are you gonna cuase some trouble? (roll up sleeves)

**Orkeosaurus**

orkishlyorkish wrote:
Orkeosaurus wrote:It says plainly in the ork codex that they have an inherent knowledge of technological principles. If you don't like the wording take it up with Games Workshop.
GW has bad gramar If you are born with something it is a skill, if you learn something it is knowledge. Meks never study anything they are just born with the skill.

So you can't learn a skill?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Well they do kind of experiment.

Anyway, I believe we can all agree that Ork tech is the least RELIABLE.

While the Shock Attack Gun does teleport snotlings, half of them get sucked into the warp or driven insane. A very bad ratio compared to the ability of Spaz Marinz and Eldar. Also, Spaz marinz teleport HUGE differences.

Ork tech gets more gretchin and boys killed than the enemy. That much is certain.

...Orkesaurus, are you gonna cuase some trouble? (roll up sleeves)

Oim alwuz reddy fer a scrap!

I'll agree on them being the least reliable. Although, snotlings are all driven insane with the trip, that's half the point!

**Emperors Faithful**

They are only insane if they COMPREHEND that, in the short time warp travelling, they got molested by a pack of deamons.

What do you class as ADVANCED?

**Orkeosaurus**

Advanced? Using higher level technological concepts, or using those concepts in a better way.

Force fields and teleporters are some of the more advanced technology in 40k. Presumably, because they're not related to anything that actually exists right now.

(Why doesn't my spell check understand the word "teleport"?)

**Emperors Faithful**

Eh, it's not a proplem for me, i don't use thspellchek! (evil grin)

Anyway, I really do think that the Brainboyz, if they existed, were not orks. (Heard they may have been old ones). And orks only really don't MAKE, or COME UP with, new tech. They scavenge it. Like, um, that warboss who found a derelict Necron Tomb world and teched out his fleet with the pylons and guass stuff.

**Orkeosaurus**

Brainboys were apparently the same thing as Snotlings, only geniuses.

They may be related to the 'krork' created by the Old Ones.

**TheAlmightyPillock**

Emperors Faithful wrote: I really do think that the Brainboyz, if they existed, were not orks. (Heard they may have been old ones)

In the realy old fluff the Brainboyz were the intelagent master race of the greenskins, but the mushrooms that grew on thier home planet died out and they then became the snotlings.

Acording to the new fluff however (takeing this from the Necron rule book) all the greenskins (Orks, gretchin, snotlings ans well as squigs) were created by the Krork, a race created (not long after the Eldar) in the Old ones war with the C'tan. The Krork, for whatever reson, were ding out and they wanted their creations to continue on living without them. to make sure that they would survive they introduced the racial memory with all thier technology. Unforchanutly most orcs can barly comprihend this so the Mech gene was introduced who would be inteligent anuff to use some of the Krork's tech.

Weve strayed a fair bit, isnt this ment to be a telaportation thred? I first mentiond Orks jsut to say that they were realy good at telaportation and when I come back all youve done is argued about the merits of orcs and wether its knwolege or skill

. Go back to talking about Telaportation again.

**Emperors Faithful**

I would say ork teleporting is the least reliable of all the races (surprised Tau don't have it), and is therefoe the least advanced.

**Cheese Elemental**

I don't see the Imperium successfully teleporting power armoured Spess Mehrens en-masse.

**Nurglitch**

The way I think of it is kind of like the various technologies for transporter-style technology used in Doctor Who.

There's teleportation, transmaterialization (trans-mat), and transduction.

Teleportation is what it sounds like: The part of reality to be transported is dematerialized in one location, transmitted as information to a destination where it materializes. This is dangerous as data can be corrupted, leading to incomplete transmission, loss of packets, jamming, and cross-materialization with other bits of reality on arrival, like solid rock, if there isn't a proper receiver on the other end. Plus, the whole dematerialization, pure information, rematerialization requires transmission through the Warp and is essentially daemonology.

Human, Ork, and Eldar use teleportation technology because they have relatively strong Warp-presences, and that means less of the being needs to be dematerialized, and in the case of Orks a strong link binding them to the material extensions of their gesalt which allows them to execute mass teleportation. By comparison, the Eldar have it the worst, since She Who Thirsts actively draws upon Eldar souls. The relatively weak psychic presences of Human souls thus make teleportation both difficult, and relatively safe.

Transmaterialization doesn't bugger around with the interface between the material world and the Realm of Chaos, as the matter that it being transported is simply altered to a transmittable format and shot in the right direction. However, transmat beams can be intercepted by all sorts of things, depending on the composition, frequency, and power of the transmat beam. Incepting a transmat beam is very dangerous, because interacting with the beam will affect the reconstitution of matter at the other end. Still, once you've gotten the hang of all the relative dimensions in time and space, transmat technology is like a cart and buggy: crude.

Transduction technology is the cat's meow. It's what the Time Lord use to shunt time capsules around their docking bays, for example. The basic idea is that, essentially, space and time can be folded and unfolded like transdimensional origami to resituate the co-relative space-time co-ordinates of any particular quanta of space-time in relation to another quanta. It's also used to protect Gallifrey from intrusion, by putting an effectively infinite amount of space between Gallifrey and its dependent reality, and occasionally in tailoring, interior decorating, and data storage. As a consequence of such nigh-absolute power, the Gallifreyans are surprisingly primitive when it comes to fashion, computing, and other accoutrements of what one typically considers high-tech civilization.

The Necrons use transduction technology, although clearly their mastery of this technology is nowhere near that of the Time Lords. No doubt this is due to lacking the Gallifreyan sensitivity to movement in time, and their own somewhat stagnated infrastructure (they lack a super-massive black hole like the Eye of Harmony, perhaps due to underdeveloped stellar manipulator technology). Still, they can use it to appear to move capsules faster than light by moving through less curved dimensions of space-time than the four branes upon which most humanity understands itself to exist, and they can use it to recover damaged Necrons, or simply move them around. As yet, however, they cannot use it to move pieces of Necron techology with organic computing component, or any that use zero-point power plants, due to the unpredictability of these item's link to the non-material of the Warp.

Bending space and time is fairly predictable, economically speaking, given the lawful nature of the Material Universe. But material objects with a strong Warp-presence, even a negative presence, will deform less and less predictably. While zero-point power plants depend on drawing limitless power from the material vacuum of the Warp, they depend upon extremely precise geometries to ensure that warp-energy materializes as a particular 'material' energy (weak force, strong force, EM, etc) rather than crystallizing as hydrogen or worse. The Cadian Pylons are one application of this warp-dampening technology, enforces structure on the nothingness of the Warp that bleeds into our Galaxy from the Eye of Terror.

**Emperors Faithful**

Cheese Elemental wrote:I don't see the Imperium successfully teleporting power armoured Spess Mehrens en-masse.

100 grey knights teleported directly in front of Angron in the 1st War for Armageddon.

**Cheese Elemental**

Grey Knights are psykers. They have relative control over where they go in the Warp, and thus can withstand Warp travel without Terminator armour.

Besides, just look how bad Imperial teleportation can be. The Imperial Fists First Company got fethed up when a few cultists performed some kind of ritual that teleported them into solid rock.

There isn't even any indication that Ork teleportation utilises Warp travel. It could use a different dimension to travel, like Necrons do.

**Emperors Faithful**

...The Shokk attack gun shoots snotlings through the warp don't it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And now that you mention it, only the warp spiders DEFINITELY go through the warp, Imperium might use different technology too.

**Cheese Elemental**

No, the Imperium use the Warp. Dawn of War II has cutscenes of ships flying into the Warp, there are mentions of traveling in the Empyrean (the Warp), and countless other sources say so.

Oh, and Navigators have 'Warp-sight', which lets them guide ships through the Warp.

**Emperors Faithful**

No, I meant the teleportation of Terminators in Particular.
How do orks travel if not through the warp?

**Orkeosaurus**

I'm pretty sure everyone but the Necrons go through the warp, for teleportation and for space travel (although the tau skip across the surface instead of plunging in).

**Emperors Faithful**

Okay, but then why did you say ork tech is different?
(And you haven't answered the Termie-Teleport question.)

**Cheese Elemental**

Orkeosaurus wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone but the Necrons go through the warp, for teleportation and for space travel (although the tau skip across the surface instead of plunging in).

No, the Warp is anathema to the Necrons. They can't stand it, which is why they want to seal it off.

**Orkeosaurus**

Wha?

Orkeosaurus wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone but the Necrons go through the warp

everyone but the Necrons

Automatically Appended Next Post:
With regards to Emperor's, I just said ork tech was better; as in, it's more compact, requires less maintenance, teleports more, would be more reliable if it wasn't actually built and maintained by lazy grots and psychotic meks who still have it operating surprisingly well considering. Also, the orks can manufacture it much easier, as teleportation technology is really high-level mechanicus stuff for the Imperium.

I don't know what your question about termies was; could you repeat it? Was it the gray knights you were talking about?

**Emperors Faithful**

Do termies (grey knights) teleport through the warp?
(You answered how people space travel)

You just said ork tech requires less maintenence, yet you then said that it sucks becuase it is maintained by lazy grots? How does it teleport way more? (remebemer, Piscina V didn't teleport them ALL AT ONCE), also, I would say that this kind of ork tech is not found in every meks backyard, it is a rarity to be sure.

Only aspects that it beats the Imperium is in two things.
1) It seems to be made out of stuff the mek found lying around (could be a bad thing)

2) Slighty more sturdy, yet always liable to collaspe.

**Orkeosaurus**

Teleports way more? On Armageddon they teleported massive amounts of troops around the planet. You could teleport a full squad of orks with Nazdreg in the old codex. Whole warbands frequently teleport themselves aboard space hulks (and create force fields to stop them from being thrown into the warp).

Less maintenance and lazy grots kind of go hand in hand; ork teleporters work okay despite not being very wel maintained, while Imperial teleporters require highly trained techpriests to maintain and operate them.

While not every mek has a teleporter in his backyard, they're still more common among the orks than among the Imperium. The Imperium only hauls them around on ancient battle barges or battle ships the size of cities. The only things they can usually afford to teleport (and equip for teleportation) are elite things like terminators or gray knights, or things that absolutely need to reach the planet's surface. Even the elite of the elite space marines usually drop pod down.

Also, yes, Gray Knights travel through the warp. (Actually, I believe Gray Knight marines teleport as well as the terminators).

While I'm at it, I should probably mention that mastery of force field and teleportation technology was emphasised a lot more in the older fluff than it is now. The current ork codex doesn't seem to make much of a distinction regarding ork expertise with those specific areas.

**Emperors Faithful**

It still seems that Imperium has more teleportas than orks. Most meks will not have tellyportas. Only the biggest, baddest lot of them (Nazdreg ect.). Also how is thier Teleportation device more "better-er" than other races?

(I'm surprised that the tech-advanced tau don't teleport.)

**Jon Garrett**

I was under the impression that for the mass teleports performed by the Orks they required only the telporter itself but a reciever, located in a Rok that got dropped to the planet. Only then could they actually teleport large numbers of troops in one go. Otherwise they're no better and likely worse than the Imperial versions.

And yeah, the Imperials teleport through the Warp the same as everyone else. There's a story in the back of the Daemonhunters book that describes in detail when Brother-Captain Stern and his Terminators teleport in, and mentions the warp things at the edge of his perception...and that they're going through the warp, I seem to recall.

**Emperors Faithful**

But why is Orkeosuarus saying that Ork teleporting is better than others?

**ph34r**

Orkimedes was a brilliant ork responsible for inventing the Tellyporta. They can be used to teleport troops, gargants, etc. I'm sure they aren't anywhere near as safe as Imperium teleporters, but orks make them work.