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Kanluwen wrote:Then why BRING the issue up?

I mean, there comes a point where it's just asking for attention Luna.

Excuse me? things happen in the world whether it happens to me or not.
Just because it doesnt happen to me, doesnt mean it doesnt happen to others.

And because it does, i care about it, and i want to see people's view on it.

What does this have to do with asking for attention? If i seek attention , you would already see me post "omg female gamer here"
not only do i never do that , i have people thinking im gay because i dont openly scream my gender to everyone to know.

Wolfstan wrote:Wargaming is about the gaming, the hobby part came later, it's artificial, a concept banded about GW.

Actually, you're incorrect. Painting miniature soldiers was around long before miniatures wargaming.

Is there some kind of anti-painting league I should know about?

I sincerely doubt there are people out there, or at least large numbers of them, who are feeling that they've been discriminated against because of the lack of paint on their models.

And I say this in the nicest way possible, but it seems quite often that you are only starting threads whenever you want some attention, and then play the empathizing with everyone in the whole wide world card whenever someone calls you on it.

If you're genuinely concerned about something like this or feel that it's hurt or wounded you in anyway, feel completely free to talk at me. But seriously, I'm not trying to be a bringdown here. Not every little bit and piece of your life needs to relate to dakka in some way or form.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Wargaming is about the gaming, the hobby part came later, it's artificial, a concept banded about GW.

Actually, you're incorrect. Painting miniature soldiers was around long before miniatures wargaming.

But they paint it for historical display purpose , not gaming purpose.

Thus incorrect again .

Kanluwen wrote:Is there some kind of anti-painting league I should know about?

I sincerely doubt there are people out there, or at least large numbers of them, who are feeling that they've been discriminated against because of the lack of paint on their models.

And I say this in the nicest way possible, but it seems quite often that you are only starting threads whenever you want some attention, and then play the empathizing with everyone in the whole wide world card whenever someone calls you on it.

If you're genuinely concerned about something like this or feel that it's hurt or wounded you in anyway, feel completely free to talk at me. But seriously, I'm not trying to be a bringdown here. Not every little bit and piece of your life needs to relate to dakka in some way or form.

What .... the .... ******* ?

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then why BRING the issue up?

I mean, there comes a point where it's just asking for attention Luna.

Excuse me? things happen in the world whether it happens to me or not.
Just because it doesnt happen to me, doesnt mean it doesnt happen to others.

And because it does, i care about it, and i want to see people's view on it.

What does this have to do with asking for attention? If i seek attention , you would already see me post "omg female gamer here"
not only do i never do that , i have people thinking im gay because i dont openly scream my gender to everyone to know.

"Note"
()

The part about calling Luna gay is really immature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Is there some kind of anti-painting league I should know about?

I sincerely doubt there are people out there, or at least large numbers of them, who are feeling that they've been discriminated against because of the lack of paint on their models.

And I say this in the nicest way possible, but it seems quite often that you are only starting threads whenever you want some attention, and then play the empathizing with everyone in the whole wide world card whenever someone calls you on it.

If you're genuinely concerned about something like this or feel that it's hurt or wounded you in anyway, feel completely free to talk at me. But seriously, I'm not trying to be a bringdown here. Not every little bit and piece of your life needs to relate to dakka in some way or form.

What the #%o.O is right... why are you trying to mess the thread up? Discussions are what forums are for, if Luna really gets on your nerves use the blocking feature, problem solved. Now lets continue the discussion please.

Wrexasaur wrote:If it isn't worth it to paint your army, you should play with people of a like mind. It just isn't fair to ruin (yes, ruin) someone "meditation time" with an unpainted army every time you play them. 2 colors and some wash will cut it no problem. Ask people in your store for help, and I am sure you can find it.

What I said wasn't fully directed at you Luna, I just meant to address the topic with my perspective.

I don't personally know that many good painters that are actually all that snobbish. If they rush you, tell them you are still learning and they should understand. If they don't poo poo to them, who cares that you can impress everyone, I can add details WITH MY MIND. Seriously though no one is asking you to go crazy with the painting, most don't have the time for that either way.

"Note"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOxt3cMTDZE

Again why? It makes no sense. You'd prefer to play a person who has made the effort to stick 2 colours on their models, to someone who has an unpainted army but knows the rules of the game and for his force inside out? Why does this make them "lazy"?

Wolfstan wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:If it isn't worth it to paint your army, you should play with people of a like mind. It just isn't fair to ruin (yes, ruin) someone "meditation time" with an unpainted army every time you play them. 2 colors and some wash will cut it no problem. Ask people in your store for help, and I am sure you can find it.

What I said wasn't fully directed at you Luna, I just meant to address the topic with my perspective.

I don't personally know that many good painters that are actually all that snobbish. If they rush you, tell them you are still learning and they should understand. If they don't poo poo to them, who cares that you can impress everyone, I can add details WITH MY MIND. Seriously though no one is asking you to go crazy with the painting, most don't have the time for that either way.

"Note"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOxt3cMTDZE

Again why? It makes no sense. You'd prefer to play a person who has made the effort to stick 2 colours on their models, to someone who has an unpainted army but knows the rules of the game and for his force inside out? Why does this make them "lazy"?

I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean. My preference of players is my decision. I will prefer to play tabletop models over any other type. 2 colors and wash IS tabletop, no one said anything about dipping or anything. If you paint your 2 colors messily and in a rush it will look pretty bad, but if you practice brush control and possibly a bit of drybrushing, you can make really nice armies w/o having to spend all your spare time on them.

If you don't want to play me because you can paint an amazing army, then who the heck cares either way?

...Who said anything about lazy? Yeah I am don't understand exactly what you meant by your statement.

Wolfstan wrote:

Golga wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:I'm with you on this Luna. Although I really enjoy the collecting and painting aspect of the hobby and hate to field unpainted models myself, I have no problem with unpainted models. Now here's the part where I rant and upset people

As far as I'm concerned if you are a gamer who believes that your fellow gamers should paint their models or attempt to paint their models then you are wrong, end of. What right do you have to look down your nose at someone for not having painted models. Where is the committee that sets these so called standards for us mere mortals to follow? Wargaming is about the gaming, the hobby part came later, it's artificial, a concept banded about GW. Non- historical wargaming has taken years to emerge from the anal attitutes that traditional historical wargamers had, (not the right colour cuff strip on a 15mm model!! etc) and now gamers want to replace it with their own version of accepted standards. Get over yourselves or join a country / golf club where you can tut tut over failing standards.

I don't think many of us here say you must have a painted army in order to play. Were mostly just saying that if you have had an army for a year or 2 and have not even attempted to paint a model. maybe you should just try to do a little something with them.

Why? If you buy a chess set nobody expects you to paint up the pieces. What about casual gamers who liked the idea behind Space Crusade or Space Hulk, are they expected to paint their models at some point? So why do we expect someone who has built up a Warhammer / 40k army to do the same? They may just like the game and want to play it and are happy / not interested in painting them.

Wow calm down there dude. What I was trying to say is that no one in this thread (well when I posted that anyways) Was attacking people for there lack of painting. We were all discussing why some one should or should not have a painted army and why some people would be miffed that they dont. And honestly that's a terrible example. If you spent as much money on a chess set as you do warhammer (and ive seen some chess sets that can go for over 2 grand) Why on earth would you paint it?

Also with space hulk it was a small game. It was never really intended to have the models painted. If you did well fine on you. But with a real army. Well its just nice to see some one put a little work into it. Give those little plastic men a personal touch of your own regardless of how small or terrible it is. As I said above I use to be one of those people that played with unprimed models. But when i actually had a fully painted army. Well it made me like them just a bit more.

Do I expect others to have the same feeling. No I dont. But I have to say I do like seeing it when its done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Wargaming is about the gaming, the hobby part came later, it's artificial, a concept banded about GW.

Actually, you're incorrect. Painting miniature soldiers was around long before miniatures wargaming.

But they paint it for historical display purpose , not gaming purpose.

Thus incorrect again .

Wait how is he incorrect there? He stated that painting models was around long befor wargaming was. Which it was. Regardless if it was used for a war gaming purpose or not. Painting them was around long before war gaming. Gw simply took something that most people liked to do and gave it the war gaming aspect.

I am going to take some time to post examples of what I would want to play against as a minimum of paint. Props to these painters.

I will say again that I don't have that much of a problem playing unpainted stuff, but I usually do so because someone has a new unit that they want to test. You build it prime it, and field it a few times, then you finish it within a month or two. You can add details throughout the models career. Think of it as a reward for the unit doing well.

This is a perfect example of a simple yet effective paintjob. Nothing fancy, but it really gives the model some life. I can't imagine this taking more than one hour to make. So do 2-3 of these per week, and maybe a vehicle on the side, you will only have to spend 2/3 of a full day over the course of the entire week.



You can add your details with spare time, I would personally play without the details, and no complaints about it. These are 3 colors I suppose, 4 if you want to be picky.



Nothing I play with has to look any nicer than this, these are very nice works. Simple too, I will see If I can find the thread where it was explained. Beautiful shade of yellow with very little effort, he even painted them on the sprues to keep things simple.



Yet again, simple yet very effective.



And again, very simple. With practice this is within pretty much everyone's reach.



Simple.



Good example of an HQ standard.



Another HQ.

Wrexasaur wrote:I am going to take some time to post examples of what I would want to play against as a minimum of paint. I will say again that I don't have that much of a problem playing unpainted stuff, but I usually do so because someone has a new unit that they want to test. You build it prime it, and field it a few times, then you finish it within a month or two. You can add details throughout the models career. Think of it as a reward for the unit doing well.

Eh I occasionally use unprimed models when testing out units. Id much rather not have a half primed model when I figure I should change around a bit of wargear.

*shrug*
My comment was based on observation, nothing more.

If you're not looking for attention, than my apologies. I'm cranky and completely unable to sleep due to an inner ear infection.

But I don't get why you're starting a thread about painted armies, when you say you've never finished painting an army(including Necrons, which are arguably one of the easiest armies to batchpaint and look presentable) and then say that the thread has nothing to do with you other than "it goes on in the world"?

Kanluwen wrote:*shrug*
My comment was based on observation, nothing more.

If you're not looking for attention, than my apologies. I'm cranky and completely unable to sleep due to an inner ear infection.

But I don't get why you're starting a thread about painted armies, when you say you've never finished painting an army(including Necrons, which are arguably one of the easiest armies to batchpaint and look presentable) and then say that the thread has nothing to do with you other than "it goes on in the world"?

Because:

- I know there are plenty of people in person that hates painting ( oh guess who commissions me to paint for them )
as well as people on dakka that dont particularly care for hobby aspect either ( which ever reason they have )

- While i dont have any army complete, that does not mean im a lazy painter . ( look in my gallery , while im not very good at it , you can atleast tell i put some effort into it )
Necron for example , just because the usual way people does it is easy and fast , that doesnt mean i paint them the same way . ( again , my necrons are not painted that way )
thus you cant really use one person's standard and try to apply it to others.

Lastly , i do ask alot of questions on Dakka . But instead of assuming im asking for attention , why not try to see it from my point of view?

I can ask a few people irl these "random" question that they think is silly . Or i can in "in theory" get hundreds of response from people everywhere on the net.
Its a good way to get variety of ideas in no?

If they hate painting, fine. Go for it, pay someone for a commission job.

I do not, for the life of me, understand why someone would get involved in an artistically driven hobby, and ignore the artistic part. I just can't understand it. I still have random models from when I first started that I'll go back and try to improve on. Heck, as I type this I have Inquisitor Lord Hector Rex sitting next to me with a file because he's going to be primed tomorrow for his part in my Guard army.

I didn't say you were a lazy or a terrible painter. I didn't mean to immediately imply that you're some kind of attention-seeking malcontent.

I meant that it's a weird topic to start, when you can guess at most of the responses.
You'll have the "don't want to spend gaming time painting" crowd, and the "at least try to learn how" crowd, along with the "don't care, never bothered" crowd or the "I won't play them unless they're tabletop standard" crowd.

LunaHound wrote:Its wrong and unreasonable to judge others on the assumption that
they should value / judge / behave things the same way you do.

So, arent you sort of judging the people that are painting elitists? Telling people that acting one way isnt righ/unreasonablet- is very much a double sided blade Its all about an individuals perspective.

I think the simple nature of this being a competitive game/hobby will instill basic levels of elitism, regardless of whether its painting, playing or passing gas to incapacitate your opponent (you know who you are you nasty nurgle a$$!).

Any level of competition is like this, pro sports, week night bowling leagues, pee wee football. Its human nature really. People try to show others they can do something better, even if it seems ridiculous. Like curling....I mean...seriously...sliding rocks on ice....its in the olympics...

So, if Im across the table for some guy with an unpainted army, Im gonna razz him about being lazy. If I see someone with an army thats painted, and theyre at least trying, I'll give them painting tips, and maybe even sit down with them and help them paint some stuff.

If someone chooses not to paint, they have their reasons, and from that choice they gotta accept some people might give them some crap about it. If getting crap about unpainted minis bothers them too much, they can deal with it, paint their stuff, or go play d&d minis or clix so they can avoid painting

Ive helped alot of my freinds paint stuff. If you cant paint well, find someone that does and ask them for some help. This is a social hobby, and for the price of a burrito and some soda you might jsut find someone that will sit down and help cover up all that bare plastic- and everyone has fun doing it. I mean, look at the tutorials that are out there now- stuff that took me years to figure out on my own can now be seen on youtube and takes 10 minutes....that evens out the learning curve

Mistress of minis wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Its wrong and unreasonable to judge others on the assumption that
they should value / judge / behave things the same way you do.

So, arent you sort of judging the people that are painting elitists? Telling people that acting one way isnt righ/unreasonablet- is very much a double sided blade Its all about an individuals perspective.

Oh yes , but there is one big difference.

I dont go around hurting good painter's feelings by saying things like " lol you spent 10 hour + on a mini " ( reverse situation for example )

Also i noticed something when i post on the net . Every time i question something , people automatically assume im against them.
Thats far from the truth because again , in warhammer i do the hobby way more than i game.

Wrexasaur, no pop at you intended, but your photos are just reinforcing a point that both me and Luna are trying to make.

As I understand it Luna was raising the point, without naming people (I don't know who I just joined in) who have made comments about painted models. I have to say that during my time on the board I have seen plenty of comments on non painted models and people getting worked up about them and playing against them. Again I think Luna is the same opinion as me that this should in no way matter when playing a game. Whether a gamer likes to field a painted army themselves, well that's their choice, but you shouldn't be judging your opponent because their force is unpainted.

To me Wrexasaur all you appear to be doing is saying is , "hey look how easy it is, this is what you can achieve in a few simple steps", which is still reinforcing the idea that painted models good, unpainted bad.

I haven't ever seen people say anything about unpainted models, other than commenting perhaps about heavy conversions that--frankly--if you're going to take the time to do, why not sit down and paint?

And you can't tell me who not to judge!
I'll judge you all!
Bwhahaha!

Wolfstan wrote:Wrexasaur, no pop at you intended, but your photos are just reinforcing a point that both me and Luna are trying to make.

As I understand it Luna was raising the point, without naming people (I don't know who I just joined in) who have made comments about painted models. I have to say that during my time on the board I have seen plenty of comments on non painted models and people getting worked up about them and playing against them. Again I think Luna is the same opinion as me that this should in no way matter when playing a game. Whether a gamer likes to field a painted army themselves, well that's their choice, but you shouldn't be judging your opponent because their force is unpainted.

To me Wrexasaur all you appear to be doing is saying is , "hey look how easy it is, this is what you can achieve in a few simple steps", which is still reinforcing the idea that painted models good, unpainted bad.

Yes that pretty much sums it up , without me having to point finger at actual names.

Even if the paint can be hastily applied , you'll still get people that says

" wow thats awful , it pains me to see minis painted that way. I rather play a gray army than that "

Wolfstan wrote:Wrexasaur, no pop at you intended, but your photos are just reinforcing a point that both me and Luna are trying to make.

As I understand it Luna was raising the point, without naming people (I don't know who I just joined in) who have made comments about painted models. I have to say that during my time on the board I have seen plenty of comments on non painted models and people getting worked up about them and playing against them. Again I think Luna is the same opinion as me that this should in no way matter when playing a game. Whether a gamer likes to field a painted army themselves, well that's their choice, but you shouldn't be judging your opponent because their force is unpainted.

To me Wrexasaur all you appear to be doing is saying is , "hey look how easy it is, this is what you can achieve in a few simple steps", which is still reinforcing the idea that painted models good, unpainted bad.

Dude... I said WITH PRACTICE. Has anyone ever done archery? It will really piss you off for the first few tries. As long as you are dedicated enough to paint a few hours a week, you WILL get better at it. Most of the stuff was very simple to do, but you need to know how to control a brush, and how to thin your paints in order to apply them in manageable layers (thin them down to a glaze for the extreme of this).

"Note"
Putting up examples was something that I thought would illustrate what I was writing about quite accurately. The fact that you can can use them as a way to reinforce a point is your prerogative.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Wrexasaur, no pop at you intended, but your photos are just reinforcing a point that both me and Luna are trying to make.

As I understand it Luna was raising the point, without naming people (I don't know who I just joined in) who have made comments about painted models. I have to say that during my time on the board I have seen plenty of comments on non painted models and people getting worked up about them and playing against them. Again I think Luna is the same opinion as me that this should in no way matter when playing a game. Whether a gamer likes to field a painted army themselves, well that's their choice, but you shouldn't be judging your opponent because their force is unpainted.

To me Wrexasaur all you appear to be doing is saying is , "hey look how easy it is, this is what you can achieve in a few simple steps", which is still reinforcing the idea that painted models good, unpainted bad.

Yes that pretty much sums it up , without me having to point finger at actual names.

Even if the paint can be hastily applied , you'll still get people that says

" wow thats awful , it pains me to see minis painted that way. I rather play a gray army than that "

And??? WHO CARES? That person is a douche and should be kicked out of the store if they make a habit of it. PERIOD.

"Note"
How long did this take you Luna? I like it a lot.

Also lets not forget to factor in the situation of reselling the army. Some people switch army often and have no loyalty to a certain army. And can always get more returning value by leaving it unpainted.

Why ? various reasons . Game play can be very different than imagined or planned.

Or you can get into an "omg so cool army!" but late. Then new edition comes out and completely changes everything.

Mix that with rule of " require 2 color atleast to play" then what happens?
You quickly throw 2 colors on the army / find out you dont like them / cannot sell them for 1/4 th of what you purchased them for.

Now what happens?


The destroyer? count assembling or not? because assembling part usually take longer than the actual painting process.
I dont spend more then a hour per model unless its monstrous creature or vehicles. ( thus infantry size i do 5 at a time )
And if its tanks or large monsters i dont spend more than 3 hours ( i sit there till its finished , and 3 hour is all i can last )

LunaHound wrote:
Also lets not forget to factor in the situation of reselling the army. Some people switch army often and have no loyalty to a certain army. And can always get more returning value by leaving it unpainted.

This is true, and I know people who do this. You can get your AOBR box, assemble them, paint what you keep and sell the rest to people you play with. It is a pretty good way to advertise. My friend (who is a better painter than I with 2+ years more experience than me) said he would never buy a painted mini that wasn't pro level. With effort I can produce the same results as the average painter, and I can do it in my own style, with flare and what have you.

LunaHound wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Wargaming is about the gaming, the hobby part came later, it's artificial, a concept banded about GW.

Actually, you're incorrect. Painting miniature soldiers was around long before miniatures wargaming.

But they paint it for historical display purpose , not gaming purpose.

Thus incorrect again .

HG Wells was one of the first people to popularise recreational wargaming. It existed before that as a planning tool in the military.

The playing pieces he used were painted soldier figures owned by his son.

Luna - can you show an earlier example of recreational table-top wargaming in which un-painted figures were the playing pieces of choice? ETA or any example of table-top wargaming where un-painted miniatures are the preferred playing pieces?

BTW if anyone's interested in how wargaming started I thoroughly recommend HG Well's Little Wars. It's quite suprising how many of the standard conventions of modern wargaming are present in his book.

Scott-S6 wrote:
HG Wells was one of the first people to popularise recreational wargaming. It existed before that as a planning tool in the military.

The playing pieces he used were painted soldier figures owned by his son.

Luna - can you show an earlier example of recreational table-top wargaming in which un-painted figures were the playing pieces of choice.

Chess ?

A friend of mine had collected tau, and I play guard.

I was alreardy painting stuff for some years so all looked alright. My tau friend didn't paint anything more than 2 gundrones and a commander.
He was convinced he sucked at painting. But everytime it came to gaming, he won. No matter what scenario or what type of game.

He always won.

You don't have to be a good painter, but if you are, it helps.

I counter your chess with checkers.

Go play with your clix-Chess elsewhere!

Ritz wrote:
You don't have to be a good painter, but if you are, it helps.

I really like that type of attitude in a gamming community.

Where the good paintings are a bonus , a treat. not a necessity .
and certainly not target of ridicules when a lesser paint job is presented.

LunaHound wrote:Also lets not forget to factor in the situation of reselling the army. Some people switch army often and have no loyalty to a certain army. And can always get more returning value by leaving it unpainted.

Why ? various reasons . Game play can be very different than imagined or planned.

Or you can get into an "omg so cool army!" but late. Then new edition comes out and completely changes everything.

Mix that with rule of " require 2 color atleast to play" then what happens?
You quickly throw 2 colors on the army / find out you dont like them / cannot sell them for 1/4 th of what you purchased them for.

Now what happens?


The destroyer? count assembling or not? because assembling part usually take longer than the actual painting process.
I dont spend more then a hour per model unless its monstrous creature or vehicles. ( thus infantry size i do 5 at a time )
And if its tanks or large monsters i dont spend more than 3 hours ( i sit there till its finished , and 3 hour is all i can last )

The rest of this is entirely up to the people who are playing. Nuff' said.

In this group of "Super-gamers" I would be the guy fending all the new armies off with the occasional change in a solid list.

I would love to have this opportunity, but I am still pretty new to the hobby, and have not met more than 100 or so gamers personally. I think it would be fun to have a single perspective that can contribute to the understanding of how WH40k is evolving, because it is changing and will continue to do so despite it's rather complicated rules (comparatively).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Ritz wrote:
You don't have to be a good painter, but if you are, it helps.

I really like that type of attitude in a gamming community.

Where the good paintings are a bonus , a treat. not a necessity .
and certainly not target of ridicules when a lesser paint job is presented.

I like this when their are options to do your own thing, and the environment is diverse. Dakka Dakka has provided me with some of the best tips for minis I have found online, and I think it may continue to be like that as I learn to navigate forums with a bit more expertise.

Dude... I said WITH PRACTICE. Has anyone ever done archery? It will really piss you off for the first few tries. As long as you are dedicated enough to paint a few hours a week, you WILL get better at it. Most of the stuff was very simple to do, but you need to know how to control a brush, and how to thin your paints in order to apply them in manageable layers (thin them down to a glaze for the extreme of this).

But it's still the same message. Someone could well of bought their army with no intention of painting it, so why get nagged about painting, even if well intentioned? I should know I've got a mate who loves gaming, but not really into painting, so he usually buys 2nd hand models that are already painted. I've tried numerous ways to encourage him to paint, but to no avail, so he just gets his legged pulled over it. It's his choice at the end of the day and it's none of my business.

HG Wells was one of the first people to popularise recreational wargaming. It existed before that as a planning tool in the military.

The playing pieces he used were painted soldier figures owned by his son.

Luna - can you show an earlier example of recreational table-top wargaming in which un-painted figures were the playing pieces of choice? ETA or any example of table-top wargaming where un-painted miniatures are the preferred playing pieces?

The point I was trying to make and that Luna responded to was that GW appears to of influenced the whole concept of it being a "hobby". If you use the word Hobby, it's usually in the context of "what hobbies do you do". You'd answer something like, "walking golf, wargaming". GW would appear to want it to mean, in connection with wargaming, to mean, the collecting, painting and playing of their models". If you said you were a keen walker, you wouldn't expect people to force some type of standard on you for you to qualify as a walker. I don't think the Ramblers would refuse to walk with you if you had unpolished boots or the wrong type of jacket.

Wolfstan wrote:

Dude... I said WITH PRACTICE. Has anyone ever done archery? It will really piss you off for the first few tries. As long as you are dedicated enough to paint a few hours a week, you WILL get better at it. Most of the stuff was very simple to do, but you need to know how to control a brush, and how to thin your paints in order to apply them in manageable layers (thin them down to a glaze for the extreme of this).

But it's still the same message. Someone could well of bought their army with no intention of painting it, so why get nagged about painting, even if well intentioned? I should know I've got a mate who loves gaming, but not really into painting, so he usually buys 2nd hand models that are already painted. I've tried numerous ways to encourage him to paint, but to no avail, so he just gets his legged pulled over it. It's his choice at the end of the day and it's none of my business.

This is true, but it is not unreasonable to attempt to do so in the first place. If two people are into entirely different aspects of the hobby that is their own business.

An excellent point Wolfstan.

I personally, am of the opinion that it's another persons army. If they want to paint it, they'll paint it. If they don't, they won't. It's not my care, business, interest or concern. The only time I see their models is when I'm playing against them, and since having three colours base in no way influences the outcome of the game, or affects the rules, it's beyond my scope of giving a damn.

It has nothing to do with me.

Some people will rant and rave about how the game is enhanced by extra aesthetic appeal, or how it's 'disrespectful' to your opponent/gw/people looking in on the game/wandering tramp to NOT have a well painted army, but to be perfectly frank, it's a game. You're there to play the game, not critique the other persons painting. If some guy came up to me and said, LOL UR A N00B FOR ONLY HAVING THREE COLURZ', and I would quite simply tell them it's none of their business. If they persist, I'll tell them to frag off. And if they persist after that, I might get nasty.

That's my two cents worth anyway.