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I actually agree with everyone, if that's even possible on the internet.

As a troll player I couldn't be happier with the sculpts, but as a consumer I will most likely only buy them from an online discounter.

This sucks as I have a few FLGS I'd like to support. These days I tend to only buy a few things in there a month just to make sure I'm not being a total a-hole. It used to be the bulk (check that, all) of my purchases were in a store, but these days PP and GW are pushing it too far to constantly pay retail when there are other options.

With the cost of living in the US now-a-days, I don't begrudge what PP charges for models. I just may not buy it right away. Noone is holding a gun to you head saying "Buy This." Its like the price of GW tanks now-a-days, I'm keeping the same line of thought, I'll buy it, if and when, I can afford it.

The days of being able to buy an army on minimum wage and still have money to waste are over.

Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because a standard Troll infantry model isn't a large as a WHFB Ogre. A light Warbeast is close to that size, but a standard Troll is small, more closely sized to a Terminator.

Besides all - Its time for OGRUN TIME.

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because that puts a chink in the argument.

Anyway, people like CT GAMER really annoy me. Just because I think PP is as bad as GW (if not worse coz the hide it better) doesn't make me a GW fanoy. It is possible to dislike more than one company at a time if you are of average intelligence .... ah, just realized....

10 for $50 plastic models is obscene. I thought the goldswords were obscene at $42. I wonder if they ever do a jack it will be the price of the plastic steam tank. Anyway, size real doesn't matter - the cost to produce one v's a larger model is negligible on a per model basis.

Still hate their sculpting and I still think it sucks.

Price wise: Damn.

Model Wise: Damn fine!

Some great sculpts, for sure.

Very pretty but I will stick with 40K.

Well, to those of you who think the sculpts suck or that they are overpriced, what kind of models do you like then? An example or two of sculpting that doesn't suck? Or a box of miniatures that you think is fairly priced?

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because a standard Troll infantry model isn't a large as a WHFB Ogre. A light Warbeast is close to that size, but a standard Troll is small, more closely sized to a Terminator.

So they decide to compare them to five smaller, more expensive models instead of six larger and cheaper models?

Ghaz wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because a standard Troll infantry model isn't a large as a WHFB Ogre. A light Warbeast is close to that size, but a standard Troll is small, more closely sized to a Terminator.

So they decide to compare them to five smaller, more expensive models instead of six larger and cheaper models?

No, the comparison is to similarly sized model. Why would you compare them to different sized model? That would like comparing prices of Mega Armored Nob and Black Orcs.

Hordini wrote:Well, to those of you who think the sculpts suck or that they are overpriced, what kind of models do you like then? An example or two of sculpting that doesn't suck? Or a box of miniatures that you think is fairly priced?

I am a big Rackham metal fan, though sometimes the prices of those made me whince - I have a large devourers army and some others just for the sake of painting.

I like Tom Meier work. I also like the larger scale sculpts coming from Ultraforge $65 for the treewoman btw - bueatifully cast model. I like the work coming out of Dark Sword Miniatures. One I do like for realism is Ebob Miniatures - serious considering buying his horses and camels - camels for the w1n!!

But at the end of the day, at $35 for a box of 16-20 minis you cannot beat the value of warhammer troop boxes - DE Cold Ones are 5 for $22. SM tactical box @ $35 isn't bad either. Now please don't say I am a fanboy because GW stupidity annoys me as much as the next person. Please note I haven't included Perry Bros - hate their sculpting more than PP, especially their horses.

Cruentus wrote:

Railguns wrote:Have they started charging $95 per 5 cavalry models yet like the GW Blood Knights. I'm still laughing at the guys at the flgs that think WM is the cheaper game.

Actually, PP was the originator of the $100 unit of cavalry

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/units/storm-lance-cavalry

Storm Lance cavalry, $19.99 per blister of 1 knight. I think GW actually copied PP in that category

The trouble with PP cavalry is that it's all metal, each cavalry unit is vastly different
from the other factions' cavalry units (requiring completely different sculpts) and
each cavalry model is the size of a warjack.

People don't tend to buy them unless they really want them.

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because a standard Troll infantry model isn't a large as a WHFB Ogre. A light Warbeast is close to that size, but a standard Troll is small, more closely sized to a Terminator.

So they decide to compare them to five smaller, more expensive models instead of six larger and cheaper models?

No, the comparison is to similarly sized model. Why would you compare them to different sized model? That would like comparing prices of Mega Armored Nob and Black Orcs.

Irregardless of the comparator - bigger, smaller, whatever, $50 for 10 plastic models and $45 for 5 is just obscene. The only way I can think that companies can justify it is if they know that their base customer size isn't going to grow significantly and you know the elasticity/inelasticity of your bases customer you would soak them for every penny.

RogueMarket wrote:
Besides all - Its time for OGRUN TIME.

Too bad eThagrosh works really well with more warbeasts and all that Ogrun is
going to eat up points fast.

WRT costs
In 1994 10 Space Marines were $30. All Metal. Minwage was 4.25. A box of Marines cost over 7 hours labor at that rate
Or 30 Plastic were $30.
2009 10 Sternguard are $70. Costs 9 hours labor.
Or 10 Plastic SM are $35. Minwage(IL) is $8. Costs a little over 4 hours.

PP Trollkin above at $50 cost about 7 hours labor.

Not that everyone is at min wage. But I think it is a useful baseline for discussion like this.

Trollkin are a bit bigger than Termies, are they not?
I know that my Black Ogrun are bout that same size. Definitely not as big as GW Ogres.
Are warmongers bigger than Black Ogrun or the Bokur?

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) or Ironguts (four models) for $40?

Because a standard Troll infantry model isn't a large as a WHFB Ogre. A light Warbeast is close to that size, but a standard Troll is small, more closely sized to a Terminator.

So they decide to compare them to five smaller, more expensive models instead of six larger and cheaper models?

No, the comparison is to similarly sized model. Why would you compare them to different sized model? That would like comparing prices of Mega Armored Nob and Black Orcs.

You totally missed my point. Although the Ogres are larger, they're less expensive. Larger should mean that they'd be more expensive. Since GW's not consistent with their own models, how can you justify using them as a comparison for somebody else's models? Or you could also claim that PP's models are an even worse deal since GW sells larger models for a lower price.

Wait, is that the two wrongs make a right argument?

Alpharius wrote:Wait, is that the two wrongs make a right argument?

shhhh, don't say that too loud of "the Nurg" will come into the thread an produce 40 lines of unreadable writing/ gobbledegook that will actually prove that two wrongs do make a right - many posters will lose the will to live whilst others will bleed from the eyeballs after reading it. Many will be catatonic unable to make a decision as simpe as moving after reading the 10 pages of unintelligble replies where no-one will remember what was posted or what their reason for living is. However, I will remain short, fat, bald and clueless.

Alpharius wrote:Wait, is that the two wrongs make a right argument?

No, it's the "GW's pricing is so whacked you can't use it for a comparison" argument

Ghaz wrote:Why does everybody always compare these releases to the terminators instead of the Ogre Kingdoms Bulls (six models) for $40?

Because everybody plays Spaz Marinz, and nobody plays Ogres?

(OK, I exaggerate, but not by much)

Cruentus wrote:

Railguns wrote:Have they started charging $95 per 5 cavalry models yet like the GW Blood Knights. I'm still laughing at the guys at the flgs that think WM is the cheaper game.

Actually, PP was the originator of the $100 unit of cavalry

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/units/storm-lance-cavalry

Storm Lance cavalry, $19.99 per blister of 1 knight. I think GW actually copied PP in that category

Ahahaha. Thats hilarious. I remember seeing the then-new Chaos Knights from the last big WFB Chaos release (Somewhere areound storm of Chaos?) and thinking that $45 for 5 guys was pushing it. These days I can't help but laugh at this.



Edit: The Fenblades are the one time the PP Bludgenswords style is acceptable; if they are to be used as anti-cavalry models.

I know it's already been said, but despite them looking nice why do they cost so much?

We can all thank GW for setting the standard for pricing -_-
great now other companies does the same

Wargaming is simply an obscenely expensive hobby these days. It won't be long before it prices itself out of the market, with console games, WoW and alcohol positioning themselves as vastly cheaper vices for potential customers to ruin their lives with. We might very well be the last generation of wargamers. An amusing thought.

Railguns wrote:Edit: The Fenblades are the one time the PP Bludgenswords style is acceptable; if they are to be used as anti-cavalry models.

Oddly enough, the one model I own who could get away with having a blunt sword, doesn't. I mean, I won't cut myself on the blade anytime soon, but it's a decently fine representation of what a big choppy steel girder would look like

Also - when it comes to it - its not the actual material that ensures the high price increase.


Look at the dreadought - just a few sprues - yet 40$.

Look at Special characters now - some number 20$.


I personally believe- stats have to play a role too - in influencing price.


And Warspears aren't that bad ;P

Quick question... do these plastics get glued with common plastic glue? Someone said they are more like resin?

I think - and heard.. they are more like resin.

Thanks.
Well, for me one of the best things of buying plastic kits is that they are easy to glue and fast to built with just some drops of plastic glue here and there... Resin is easier than metal to built but still needs pinning and is much more time consuming than regular plastics.

I'm going to buy the new jack extreme, draco and 3 commandos to finish my khadors sometime in the future and call it off. Cant justify the high prices of new plastics anymore.
I can take high prices for some big chunks of metal jacks though.

I tend to pick several companies ranges for diferent reasons... I choose warmachine because they were the big steampunk metal things for painting in town... with plastics they are no longer on that boat, big part of the charm of these beasts, for me at least, was the metal weight, If I want to have fun with plastics GW covers that already for me.

Like rackham, pp shifting to plastics will loose my money, although these are light years ahead of rackham plastic crap.

Good models design overall with these new releases, just not inside of what I'm after at PP.

Personally, I prefer PP's sculpts, background and game. The one thing I don't like is the marketing model. Each book escalates the power level, so you have to buy new stuff.

Less of an issue with GW, although WFB Daemons have moved the goalposts quite a way.

Does pricing mean I won't be getting PP or GW toys? No. I'll get less, and I'll get them from discounters, but I'm in this hobby for the long run.