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Sanctjud wrote:Sorry I didn't mention Force Concentration, specifically the Lanchester laws.

Basically: 2 meltas against a tank are supperior by the factor of 4 because it is squared.

Please elaborate beyond statements.2 Meltas may be better than 1 Melta, but I fail to see how 2 meltaguns is 4 times as good as 1 Melta one Plasma, especially considering plasma is just as good if not better against AV10-12. At 6 inches meltas may shine, but at 12 they don't, and at 13 or higher they are useless, plasma guns shine at 12 inches, but are still usable at 13+, for when you dont want to get assaulted.

Sniped from Wiki:

"Lanchester's laws
During the First World War Frederick W. Lanchester formulated Lanchester's laws that calculated that the combat power of a military force is the square of the number of members of that unit so that the advantage a larger force has is the difference of the squares of the two forces[1], i.e.

If force A has say 2 units and force B has 3 units, then the advantage force B has is 3²-2² that is 5.
If force A still has 2 units and force B has 4 units then the advantage force B has is 4²-2² or 12.
If force A still has 2 units and force B has 5 units then the advantage force B has is 5²-2² or 21.
So a two to one advantage in units will quadruple the firepower and inflict four times the punishment, three times as many units will have nine times the combat ability and so on. Basically the greater the numerical superiority that one side has the greater the damage he can inflict on the other side and the smaller the cost to himself."

So one can loosely apply that law to having a pair of meltas for the purposes of tank hunting.
It's more of a point of view than anything to physically affect the game.

At the end of the day it's specialization vs. generalization of squad roles, it depends on play style.

My 7 Cents.

I think it depends less on some nebulous 'play style' than it does on the rest of your army.

A specialized unit should either do something that the rest of the army does not, provide redundancy for another unit, or synergize with the rest of the army somehow.

Likewise, a generalized unit should be flexible enough to do whatever the rest of the army can do, and provide redundancy for the rest of the army, and provide synergy through maximizing the number of units in the army.

This follows my "Flexibility-Redundancy-Synergy" theory of 40k army building. I really need a better name for it, but the idea is that the most competitive armies balance these three properties between units and armies: if units are to be flexible, for example, the entire army must be composed of flexible units to maximize redundancy and synergy between units.

The synergy of having many units should be obvious in the 40k game, particularly because some units are notable for breaking this rule: each unit can only shoot one unit. Since shooting proceeds one unit at a time, and on a one-to-one basis, an army of flexible units must concentrate its firepower on one enemy unit at a time until that unit is destroyed in order to overcome the opponent army's ability to sustain damage. Having more units than one's opponent protects the overdraft of your own units because than reducing the enemy's firepower across the board.

Plague Marines are very much a shooting unit because their capacity for causing damage in close combat pales beside their ability to shoot. Sure, they can sustain a charge pretty well, but you really want to maximize either the flexibility of their armaments, the synergy between their armaments and those of other units, and the redundancy of those armaments within the unit and across the army.

Plasma Guns maximize synergy because, like the Plague Marine's Bolters, they are essentially anti-infantry/monster weapons. Plasma Guns improve the effects of the Plague Marine's own Bolter fire against infantry targets, and improve their ability to engage light vehicles and monsters. Plague Marines are very well suited to using Plasma Guns thanks to their Feel No Pain.

Melta Guns maximize the flexibility of the unit, and possibly the redundancy of Melta Guns in the army, by allowing them to engage infantry with Bolters, and anything heavier with the Melta Guns. This flexibility, however, comes at the cost of less anti-infantry power, and the redundancy comes at the cost of wasting bolters against hard targets.

Flamers maximize the anti-infantry synergy with the unit's Bolters, while sacrificing range and the ability to engage hard targets. They have to get very close, but that's alright because Plague Marines are Fearless, so they won't get pinned, and they can take a charge very well, so no worries about getting close enough to use them. In addition, flamers often maximize the flexibility of an army to engage both mechanized enemies, and enemy hordes.

So if you're planning a Plague Marine horde, I'd say give a couple of units paired Melta Guns, a couple of units Plasma Guns, and a couple of units Flamers. Otherwise, give Plague Marines Plasma Guns or Flamers, as other units carry more Melta Guns, just give their Champion Melta Bombs in case anyone attempts tank-shock.

yeah,
That makes sense, but:

As a nurgle player I think I have had a fair amount of sucess with 7PM with plasma x2 and I make sure I bring Preditors/vindicators/oblits to do my anti tank...

plasmax2 in a rhino can move up to 12" get out and put out the hurt another 12" of rapid fire...
plasma x2 sitting on a objective in cover is almost impossible to move!

I can't remeber the last time PMs on foot with meltas did any tank damage... too easy to avoid
They have to be in a rhino, which is easy to take down... because they are easy to see coming!

also 7PM melta x 2 champion with PF in rhino costs 279pts... and gives up alot of anti personel firepower to be able to take on tanks...
then if the rhino moves to get you into 12" range you'll only get two shots before the enemy moves off. 24" range max reduced to 18" if the rhino gets popped.
I know this squad is a scoring unit with five other bolters but for antitank a Preditor TL LAS and LAs sponsons costs 165pts or 3 oblits costs 225pts seem like better anti tank with 3 shots each with better range...

Panic...

About foot plagues with meltas.
I've had success with them, but only in fun lists.

My 1250 runs a horde plague marine list, always likes to move, so the options are flamer or meltas, and the reach on meltas is decent enough.

Move + run + 12" range sets you up a turn away, just have to plan out the moves. It's not as efficient as a rhino squad, but it works.

At the end of the day, one can use meltas defensively. As in an insurance policy when/if something gets close they can deal with it.

The 7 man plasma rhino is a staple in many lists, most notably Plague spears.

But ALL of the special weapons work well on plague marines, and most of them are on a need basis for a chaos army to function well.
I don't personally like plasma as I'm risk averse, but I still use it.
But since I am more likely to charge in, I won't use plasma guns on my plague marines.

_________

Generally you take oblits for 2 things:
Multi-meltas and Plasma cannons.
The lascannon is just gravy, but it's a pretty lacklustre shot when you have a battery of 3 plasma cannons to throw around.

My 7 Cents.