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When reading through various army lists I tend to see CSM players choosing between these two when outfitting their Plague Marines. Right now I'm favoring Meltaguns due to their tank busting capabilities. I intend to leave these on objectives while my DP's and Heavy weapons clear a path to run up some zerkers in a LR. So seeing as they will most likely find a spot and park it would the range of a Plasma Gun be more effective than a higher strength Meltagun with tankbusting capablities? I plan of running 2 squads of 7, each with a Aspiring Power fist champ and 2 of my selected special weapon.

If you are running pure Plague Marines then meltas would probably be better.
But otherwise Plague Marines are good candidates for plasma guns because FNP gives them an extra layer of protection.

I run one squad of each as it gives me some flexibility. One nice way to run plasma PM's would be to have the champ and rhino take a combi plasma gun as well as the two members in the squad. This way they could really open up once per game.

With the list you gave I would say plasma. Tho a champ with a combi melta would be something to think about.

Plasma weapons are better if you intend to sit them on an objective and hang out. Personally, I use my Plague Marines for taking objectives, so 2 Meltas and a Combi-Flamer is my choice since I'm going to be so close.

Meltas, because of the risk of overheating with plasmas and goes past toughness

But if the Plasma overheats, you get your 3+ and FnP against it. In my experience, that is rather hard to fail. Besides that, you won't even be able to fire the Meltas if you are sitting on an objective.

Personally, my squad runs 1 of both. Mostly because I have a melta for tanks, and plasma for troops. Not only that, a plasma gun CAN pen Rhinos and things, so its not all bad. Yeah, it can't pen Land Raiders, thats why I run melta bombs on my HQ and champion that runs with the squad... just in case >.>

If you are walking them and using them as rear guard plasma is probably better.

I find melta works better for rhino based squads.

Pete

Edit for doublepost.

I have one squad loaded out like Darkhound, and one just like it but with plasma instead of melta. One for holding objectives, one for getting up in my opponents face and picking fights midfield(with a Rhino, of course).

One melta, one plasma. They are both high S low AP weapons, so their jobs overlap often, and it gives them much better flexibility.

I'd rather specialize though. Shooting at a Land Raider or other suitably heavy vehicle I'd want the extra melta for insurance (I often miss) where the plasma is wasted. Same thing goes for the extra wound potential a rapid firing plasma gun has over the one shot of a melta gun. Or when an objective camping squad really needs to nuke that flying Demon Prince/JetTarch/whathaveyou before it engages them in combat and negates their armor and FnP. Personally I would rather field duplicates because there are too many situations where specialization is an advantage over diluting capability.

Canonness Rory wrote:One melta, one plasma. They are both high S low AP weapons, so their jobs overlap often, and it gives them much better flexibility.

So you don't find yourself in situations where you're at 24" and unable to fire your melta, or within 12" and wishing you had an extra melta? I just find it better to have units with 2 of the same weapon so my melta units can go after armored units (not necessarily vehicles), and use my plasma against infantry so I'm not in a situation where I can't use all of my weapons to their full potential.

The only situation I can see that would make mixing worthwhile is if you ran into a situation where your all-plasma squad was met by 1+ armored infantry or vehicles with 13+ armor. I don't find myself having this problem though, and I think adding meltabombs and/or power fists would solve it just as well without requiring mixing weapons. I just see a need for that kind of flexibility that doesnt cause as many potential problems as it fixes.

Maybe there is some other secret that makes mixing special weapons a good choice , if so I'd love to hear it.

In the current meta, do people not find flamers worth running? I usually give my guys 2 meltas and then another squad gets 2 flamers. I find it works pretty well.

I run all Plasma in my 4 Plague Marine squads - there are also two specialized "tank hunter" Havoc squads with 4 meltaguns apiece and the Plague Marine squad with the Sorceror has two flamers (plus his Wind of Chaos power), for up-close and personal objective sweeping goodness.

I find going all plasma in the rank-n-file squads gives 'em great anti-MEQ firepower, and they can even engage light armor or even medium armor with the right positioning. I know everybody is going Melta-crazy in the new metagame, but short range is already a problem for my Plague Marine army, and I'm loath to cut the range of their shootyness back any more...

I play against a CSM player who runs 2 squads of 5 men in rhinos, one with two plasma guns, one with two melta guns. Against my lists, the plasma squad always does the most damage. They just kill more stuff, because they can shoot more, and he has yet to lose a plague marine to an overheat (Although it is a 1/36 chance of happening per shot). He doesnt use his PMs as anti tank, he just uses them as a rock hard ant-infantry unit that can hold objectives also. Boltguns and Plasma go together well for that purpose.

To be fair, I dont run any AV14 in any of my lists, and I have beaten my friend every time I have played him, so take the advice for what it is worth.

I prefer meltas.
They don't rob you of a charge.
Great anti-tank, when you have to.

I don't like plasmas as I'm a risk averse player. If it can, it will and I do not want to kill my own dudes.
I don't particularly like bolters or their operational ranges.

If I do run a footsquad that hangs back, by all means double plasma.

But for the 3 troop choices I have in rhinos, two squads are double melta nd one squad double flamers.
As I'm more of an offensive/chargy sort of player.

My 7 Cents.

Da Boss wrote:In the current meta, do people not find flamers worth running? I usually give my guys 2 meltas and then another squad gets 2 flamers. I find it works pretty well.

Combi-flamers on my Champs. People can tend to forget they're their, even after they read your list, once they see the melta guns.

I don't expect to get more than one shot with a flamer anyway, so the combi-status doesn't bother me much. Unless you go full on flamer overload, or are a full unit of Burna boys, you won't flame an entire unit to death so much as you'll be blunting a charge or clearing an objective before a charge.

Halsfield wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:One melta, one plasma. They are both high S low AP weapons, so their jobs overlap often, and it gives them much better flexibility.

So you don't find yourself in situations where you're at 24" and unable to fire your melta, or within 12" and wishing you had an extra melta?

Not as often as im 12" away with 2 meltas and wishing at least one of them was a plasma, or right up next to a land raider and wishing I had at least one melta, or I'm about to assault some necron warriors and wish I had a melta to fire instead of 2 rapid-fire weapons, or im up against a wraithlord and wishing I was wounding on 4's instead of 5's, or im shooting at an AV10-11 vehicle where 2d6 is useless and 4 shots end up with more pens, the list goes on.

Sanctjud wrote:I prefer meltas.
They don't rob you of a charge...

yeah,
All Plague Marines have bolt pistols, you can fire your pistol once on the way in!

Panic...

Panic wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:I prefer meltas.
They don't rob you of a charge...

yeah,
All Plague Marines have bolt pistols, you can fire your pistol once on the way in!

Panic...

S4 AP5 vs S8 AP1....
Tough decision.

yeah,
I never said that a BoltPistol was better than a MeltaGun...
Just that If you really want to shoot before charging Having a Plasma gun doesn't 'rob you of a charge', since you can fire your pistol.

PAnic...

Canonness Rory wrote:

Not as often as im 12" away with 2 meltas and wishing at least one of them was a plasma, or right up next to a land raider and wishing I had at least one melta, or I'm about to assault some necron warriors and wish I had a melta to fire instead of 2 rapid-fire weapons, or im up against a wraithlord and wishing I was wounding on 4's instead of 5's, or im shooting at an AV10-11 vehicle where 2d6 is useless and 4 shots end up with more pens, the list goes on.

Rapid fire is a decent reason to want plasma within 12" I guess. I still think if you mix your weapons you even out to the same amount of shots anyway, only now when you need a second shot of melta you don't have it, or when you want to rapid fire a unit you're down a plasma. Like I said if you're really running into vehicles/walkers/whatever with your plasma unit that often that it becomes a problem, why not take melta bombs + powerfist ? With doubling up of the same weapon in the same squad you can focus your anti-infantry on the infantry, and your anti-tank meltas on the heavier armored units.

I also don't understand why you think meltas' 2d6 roll is useless against a av10-11 vehicle. Plasma is 7 str , you roll 1d6, you still have a chance to not even glance, with a melta it is a guarantee, you might consider it overkill but if I use my melta squad against it my plasma squad is off dealing out death to infantry so my anti-vehicle unit is doing its job and so is my infantry unit, nothing is being wasted. If plasma's are all it takes for you to take down av10-11 then let your plasma unit go up against them and use your melta against the harder targets to bring down.

The other reason to double up on the same weapon is for plague marine squads. Give the plasmas to your plague marines to handle the "gets hot" rolls more easily and put the meltas on regular csms. If I mixed them I would have 1 plasma in my csm unit making them more likely to die from it and lose my special weapon and my points.

It evens out to the same amount of meltas and plasmas either way you do it, I guess it just depends on how you play, but I personally don't find my plasma units running up against things that need to be penetrated that often, and if I do my melta unit or a havoc unit or an oblit squad isnt far away.

To each his own I guess, I just wanted to hear your reasoning.

I follow the philosophy that "no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy"

If you're my enemy and have a squad of terminators in reserve, are you going to deep strike near my dual plasma marines, or dual melta marines? Chances are the latter, because on average 1-2 terminators will die, compared to 2-3 vs the plasma. If your dreadnought has a choice to be within assault cannon range of either of those squads, you'd probably want it to be the plasma squad, lastly, if you run a list with lots of heavy vehicles, which squad are you going to concentrate fire on? the melta squad probably. Mixing weapons means you have 2 squads that will kick your arse in any given situation, albeit with only 75% of the efficiency of a specialized squad.

After extensive use of 2 x plasma, 2 x melta, and 2 x flamer I have settled on the following with very good results:
Rear objective: 5 Plague Marines, 2 X plasma, rhino w/havoc
Forward objective: 7 X Plague Marine, champ w/ combi flamer and pf, 2 x melta, rhino

I run a 2 forward to 1 rear ratio and it works extremely well. The havoc launcher on the plasma squad is very useful, I would not run that configuration without it.

I prefer pairs of weapons.
It's not that 2 meltas/flamers/plasma are twice as good...it's that they are 4 times as good.
____________________

@(My name is) Inigo Montoya (you killed my father. Prepare to die).

I think the loadouts are ok.
I don't like the min. sized squad, but the backfield role has merit.
I like the melta/combi-flamer, but the double flamer to make use of 'multiple template' resolution just seems so juicy to me.

My 7 Cents.

I prefer pairs of weapons.
It's not that 2 meltas/flamers/plasma are twice as good...it's that they are 4 times as good.

Are you going to defend that or just state it as fact and expect us all to agree?

Sorry I didn't mention Force Concentration, specifically the Lanchester laws.

Basically: 2 meltas against a tank are supperior by the factor of 4 because it is squared.

As with mathhammer, it's a guide, not something to bank on completely.
But by my using pairs of weapons it's as if both support each other. One picks up the slack of the other in most cases.

My 7 Cents.

I would want to run at least 2 rhino melta squads in an all comers list if I were using them - and then add a third with plasma for covering your own objectives.