Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For the most part, ignore Monoliths.

They are expensive models, and the more of those that the Necron is playing, the less warriors they have. If I am playing a 1750 game, and I see 2 Monoliths, I usually chuckle. That's a huge investment of points which means that it's that much easier to force a phase out.

Sure the monoliths can do some damage, but even a lascannon shot is better delievered to a necron in the focus of making them phase out rather than beat on the stubbornly tough monolith.

The best Necron armies I have faced have included no monoliths, but instead warriors/immortals/scarabs/destroyers/spyders. Those are the armies that give me the biggest problems.

I once played a 1000pt necron army with 2 of them.
My Chaos SPace Marines caused them to phase out by the end of my first turn with no casualites.
He has never used them again and his cron army is now 10 times better.

Space_hoppo wrote:I once played a 1000pt necron army with 2 of them.
My Chaos SPace Marines caused them to phase out by the end of my first turn with no casualites.
He has never used them again and his cron army is now 10 times better.

500 points of Monoloths
~100 points for his lord
That left 400 points for his warriors/destroyers/spyders!

The sad part is that he probably thought he was going to steamroll you with the two monoliths.

Yes, i think it was a Lord, 2 Monoliths and 20 crons. I had like a Daemon Prince, 20ish CSM, some autocannon havocs, and i think a vindicator. Then again, my Daemon prince did kill 30+ crons in one game by himself once. 10ish came from some epic nurgles rot.

Actually, a Monolith costs less points than a LR, yet is better armed and armored. And as an IG player, how do you ignore something that deep strikes into the center of your line (and wont mishap on your line) and shoots a D6 gauss heavy bolter at your 10+ infantry squads and tanks? 'liths are the reason I have a dozen lascannons and the like.

But using epic guard shooting to slaughter as many crons as you can before it deep strikes in

Res orbs ensure that it won't be enough before turn 2-3. I have, however, taken steps to counter the 'lith and necrons in general. Master of the fleet, Vindacare assassin, a landraider (godhammer), and topped off with a CC oriented Inq. lord. All I'm waiting for is enough disposable income to pick up that LR, and I'll be set. So it's not impossible, it just shifts the local metagame that favors 'crons (not that I'm complaining... much...)

Illeix wrote: 'liths are the reason I have a dozen lascannons and the like.

What is the chance of a lascannon actually doing something significant against a monolith?
Lets assume you hit, then there is a 1/6 chance that you will penetrate it. There is a 1/3 chance that your penetrating hit will cause the monolith to explode, giving your lascannons a 1/18 chance of destroying the monolith. Given that your models have a BS of a 3 for the most part, that's 36 lascannon shots to take down 1 monolith!!

Those same 36 lascannon shots could turn 15 necrons into piles of smoldering ash, greatly pushing your opponent to a phase out. Lascannons have a great range! If his lord is near a normal necron squad, shoot at the destroyers ourside his lord's range.

As a IG player, you should have enough pie plates to wipe the squad his lord is joined with fairly quickly. Once the rest of the lords necron squad has been wiped, why not turn those same 36 lascannos on the necron lord and see how well his invuln save holds up?

When we suggest to ignore the monolith, we are not saying to put your head in the sand and pretend it does not exist. As it deepstrikes move models away from it, etc...just realize that the same firepower you can use to bring it down can be used elsewhere to better effect.

Now, I agree with all of that. You are correct. It's the local metagame that is my problem. Twenty strong squads and few destroyers are common around here, and monoliths are deployed to deny LoS (inflicted casualties are secondary) giving me little to shoot at, not to mention the stupidly good luck of WBB rolls I see...

That's why I'm in the proccess of changing up my army by bringing in some Inq. firepower, as well as giving considerable thought to a demolisher squadron. With luck, it's a solved problem.

I don't, i'd just focus on getting my boyz into cc with the warriors instead.

LoS shouln't be a problem anymore should it? Thought the monolith hovers a few inches from the gameboard giving you ample room to shoot under it?

Might be totally wrong here, havent seen a monolith in a few years.

Lloldrin has a good point.

Are not monoliths skimmers? On page 21 of their codex it clearly shows that they are.
Given the true LOS rules, and that players SHOULD be playing with a skimmer base, then a non-immobilized monolith should not block LOS.

You won't get the LOS you think you might... a Monolith has a well in the middle of the bottom that the flight stand goes into and projections off the circumference of the well also. All total the flight stand holds the Monolith less than an inch off the table. You'd have to be silly far away and laying down to get that shot off.

Steel Legion Heavy Weapon squads maybe.... those guys in the REAL combat poses. The tripod mounted stuff is not going to cut it.

Lysander with 3 str 10 attacks with +1 on the damage should do the trick

MarineFist wrote:Lysander with 3 str 10 attacks with +1 on the damage should do the trick

Doesn't move 3/6 2/6 or 42.1% from 3 attacks

does move 3/6 3/6 2/6 or 23% from 3 attacks

not bad ....

Railguns, railguns, railguns...i'm i forgetting something?

AH yes................RAILGUNS!

Dont forget, a railgun only penetrates a monolith on a 5+. Albeit the AP1 does mean death on a 4+ if so. But still 4+ to hit, 5+ to penetrate and 4+ to destroy it isnt very good! Its better to ignore it, and railgun the lord.

If you play dark eldar, your only option is a big hammer.

That's right, all you guys get is the Dark Lance. Have fun against the 3 Monolith armies that keep the warriors in reserve until te last couple of turns to grab objectives.

Necron players don't have a choice in the matter when the warriors come in.
The dice decide that as you MUST roll for reserves.

Now if the warriors and all the mono's are in reserve, then yea. A bit messy IMO, but warriors have every chance of coming in earlier as they do later.

Str 10 with AP 1 is the deal. (railguns, Vortex of doom, something like Lysander hitting it, or a dreadnough CCW or siesmic hammer).
Or weapons that result in automatic effects like Wraithcannon, then you just have to hope for enough pens to roll a destroyed result.

My 7 Cents.

Tau's chance of destroying a Monolith through shooting.

Railgun (on Broadside w/ Targeting Array + Markerlight hit) 27%
Railgun (on Broadside w/ Targeting Array) 17.5%
Railgun (on Broadside w/ ASS) 14.5%
Railgun (on Hammerhead) 13%

Compare that with Pretty Much Anything Else's chance of destroying a Monolith through shooting.

Lascannon (Twin-linked BS4) 5%
Lascannon (BS5) 4.6%
Lascannon (BS4) 3.7%
Lascannon (BS3) 2.8%
Meltagun (BS4) 2%
Meltagun (BS3) 1.4%

Eldar weapons not included because I have no idea of their stats.

The moral of the story is pretty obvious.

I try to at the very least immobilize it. This has worked in the past where I went against 2 monos. Both where immobilized first turn and didnt pose much of a threat from then on.

Dreadnoughts work wonders against them though, lascannon and DCCW have taken down their fair share of monos and raiders.

orchewer wrote:
Eldar weapons not included because I have no idea of their stats.

Eldar player here to help ... odds to Wreck or Explode

Fire Dragons* 5 x Fusion Gun + tank hunter = 33.3%
Fire Dragons* 5 x MeltaBomb + tank hunter
Stationary = 24.9%
Moving = 13.1%

Fire Dragons* 10 x Fusion Gun + tank hunter = 54.6% (not bad)
Fire Dragons* 10 x MeltaBomb + tank hunter
Stationary = 43.5%
Moving = 24.5%

Warlock 1 x witch blade (A 3= B1 +1(2HW)+1C)
Stationary = 15.8%
Moving = 8.1%

Warlocks 5 x witch blade(str9 vs vehicles) (A 3= B1 +1(2HW)+1C)
Stationary = 57.6%
Moving = 34.5%

Warlocks10x x witch blade(str9 vs vehicles) (A 3= B1 +1(2HW)+1C)
Stationary= 82% (.... well that's killed it ...)
Moving = 57%

Wraith Guard 3x Wraithgun =20.6% ++
Wraith Guard 5x Wraithgun = 31.9% ++
Wraith Guard 10x Wraithgun = 53.7% ++
(note you can/should also include a warlock in the unit)

Swooping hawks 5x Hay wire
Stationary = 1/18 =24.9% ++
Moving = 13.1% ++

Swooping hawks 10x Hay wire
Stationary = 43.5% ++
Moving = 24.6% ++

WrathLord in CC (A3 = B2 +1C)
Stationary = 29.8%
Moving = 15.8%

Fire Prism TL St10 AP1 blast (note chance of hitting 1071/1296) = 16%


So for Eldar the answer is Wraith Guard, Fire Dragons or Warlocks.


*Exarch included
++(note this is the chance of destroying any non-open topped vehicle not just a monolith)

Orks actually have an easy time with mono's believe it or not.


1: Use a green wall to stop it shooting anything important.

2: Maybe do a drive by tankhammering with a unit of bustas.

3: drag all crons into CC and phase them out quickly.

Maybe you guys should just wish for it 'real' hard, lol.

seriously, Las cannons in force will do the trick. I played a list at 1850 with 2 of them and watched as a Havoc squad with 4 LCs popped them like a zit from the other side of the table.

Mr. Tau-statistic is also right for the Tau, but did anyone NEED to tell them to take railguns? lol.

Mr. Ork-- you're boned. sure, go ahead and rush your troops and walkers, etc. toward the 'lith and watch them dematerialize at 24" in. Also say hi to the Big-D when you actually, WILLINGLY come anywhere flippin' close to him. If they're packing pariahs in support then you can watch your beautiful massive FEARLESS mob get pinned and the turn after your walker beaten like a readheaded step child by initiative 5 Str 8 double D6 penetrating liquid metal.

Mr. Tyranid... well, there's always tomorrow. lol, but seriously, you've got to line your godzillas and give cover to the stealers , etc. coming in behind lest they be torn apart by immortals, pariahs, etc. and then punch the monoliths, troop lines, etc. for the win. Pretty simple. Also, as Big-D comes over to greet you better get lucky. He's going to start curb-stomping your carnifexes and if you try and team up on him he'll just skedaddle out of combat.

IG guy. you're set- the word of the day is Medusa.

Eldar...you've got plenty of options-- just work through Big-D first and then pop the 'Lith.

All-Marines... lascannons or vindicators.

Dark Eldar... I really don't know that much about you. All I ever hear is this magical 2+ invulnerable character...

Inquisitorial forces... what are you doing here? You're only good as allies *kicks out of the thread*

Dragon, so your saying that Mr D and a mono can kill 180 orks before they phase them out?
keep in mind that 180 ork boyz only cost 1,080 points, in a 2k game they can take alot of great things.

Nob bikers for example (i hate them, but they work) could easily take down a unit of crons per turn due to thier high movement and sheer strength through mass high Str attacks.
also, they get a 4+ cover save, FNP aswell.

Even with 3 mono's in the army they still couldnt do enough damage to boyz to worry an ork player.
Also, the more points spent on mono's, gods etc etc.. the less you have to put on troops, meaning quicker phase out time.

The only use that a monlith has that causes any real concern is if I play any kind of gunline army such as guard platoons or eldar snipers in cover the monilith can crash down right in the midle of your firebase and force you out of cover and then start spitting reserve warriors out of itself while you are not in cover. Other then that and an ordanice weapon on it, just keep it at range and phase out everything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh an a nids only reliable chance at killing one is a fex with strength 10 and a whole lot of attacks, getting them there isn;t a huge problem either with the running rule.

The Dragon wrote:
Mr. Ork-- you're boned. sure, go ahead and rush your troops and walkers, etc. toward the 'lith and watch them dematerialize at 24" in. Also say hi to the Big-D when you actually, WILLINGLY come anywhere flippin' close to him. If they're packing pariahs in support then you can watch your beautiful massive FEARLESS mob get pinned and the turn after your walker beaten like a readheaded step child by initiative 5 Str 8 double D6 penetrating liquid metal.

Um, what? You're saying that S9/10 Power Klaws WON'T hurt a Monolith? How about Ghazghkull in a Battlewagon with MANz? What about Tankbustas? What about Deff Dreads and Killa Kans? Shokk Attack Guns? Biker Bosses? Boyz with a PK Nob?

Clearly, you've never played Orks before, mate.

Genestealers could glance a monolith down. W/ toxin sacs they are Str 5 each. w/ rending on 6's they will be str 11 + D3. Roll a 5 or 6 thats a glance. Do that enough times (10-12 genestealers would have a decent chance) and they could knock it down. problem is if they don't they're gonna get a Str 9 ap 3 shot to the dome

A Land Raider Terminus could do the job - a Monolith is about the only super heavy big enough to train the weapons on.

Otherwise I would say sternguard with lascannons alongside their lascannon razorback.