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Don't feed into Timmah Gwar!

He's been on an irrational anti-ork crusade for about a month now. I think he just doesn't know how to use them effectively, and is upset that he loses so much with them.

See the "help with orks" thread in the tactics forum.

I usually take 3-4 in 1850 points, although that goes right up to 6 with Orks.

phillosmaster wrote:Don't feed into Timmah Gwar!

He's been on an irrational anti-ork crusade for about a month now. I think he just doesn't know how to use them effectively, and is upset that he loses so much with them.

See the "help with orks" thread in the tactics forum.

Lol 1 day = a month

anyways orks are highly subject to personal opinion and you either think they are tier 1 or tier 3.

Anyways it was just a little joke thrown in, not a challenge.

That ork 3rd tier stuff started like a month ago.

And I know you were joking. I didn't think Gwar! knew though.

The ork stuff started a lot more than a month ago, and I sure didn't start it.

phillosmaster wrote:That ork 3rd tier stuff started like a month ago.

And I know you were joking. I didn't think Gwar! knew though.

No, I didn't, because Orks are about as Teir 3 as The Sun is made from Marmite.

Huh really? I did not know the sun was made from Marmite.

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:As far as orks, it doesn't really matter how many you take, your going to get beat by any decent army anyways.

Lolwut? Orks are one of the best armies around atm.

Well at least you are good with rules Gwar!.

Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

With Necrons
Only 2 under 1750
3 Between 1750 & 2000
4 in games over 2000

If I take more than this, it tends to limit my firepower.
But Necrons are 'special' case.

Pika_power wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:As far as orks, it doesn't really matter how many you take, your going to get beat by any decent army anyways.

Lolwut? Orks are one of the best armies around atm.

Well at least you are good with rules Gwar!.

Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

What ork player is ever scared of termies? Mass volume of attacks beats any 2+ save unit. Give me my thirty boyz against 10 termies any day. Or kan walls with KMBs if you're feeling frisky.

AV14 is.....AV 14, its a problem, every codex has weaknesses.

indigo_jones wrote:

Pika_power wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:As far as orks, it doesn't really matter how many you take, your going to get beat by any decent army anyways.

Lolwut? Orks are one of the best armies around atm.

Well at least you are good with rules Gwar!.

Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

What ork player is ever scared of termies? Mass volume of attacks beats any 2+ save unit. Give me my thirty boyz against 10 termies any day. Or kan walls with KMBs if you're feeling frisky.

AV14 is.....AV 14, its a problem, every codex has weaknesses.

Wheeeee Pyramid! And anyway aren't Nobz and Warbosses for Dealing with AV 14?

Exactly

Remember when you are math hammering that orks get +1 str on the charge. Also tankbustas are good but not everyone follows me down that path.

We need to be careful though this topic often quickly degenerates into a flame war.

Flamewar? No WAI, esp. with Gwar here to steer us on course.

Just look at the title, isn't that an indiciation we would end up like this?

My 7 Cents.

Nobz and Warbosses can deal with AV14, but not AV14 that moves 7" and they need 6's to hit. Kan/Dred wall is much more effective, especially with KFF support.

But yeah, versus a Vulkan marines sort of setup Orks are pretty much autofail.

In a 1500 point game I tend to be very troop heavy: 3 mechvet squads and a platoon that has multiple squads and heavy weapon squads. I probably need to change that, however, because I have a problem dislodging higher AV units off objectives.

At the risk of being on-topic...

I like 4-5 Trukkboy squads and 30 grots. Good for screening lootas and holding your own objective.

At 1500, I have usually 2 infantry platoons, with usually 3 infantry platoons each. That number goes up to 3 squads with 4 platoons each when I really feel like it.

I actually realized a while back that I had started using the golden ratio for the amount of troops I have; now I use it all the time because it seems to work perfectly for my mounted orks.

Take the total points for the army and divide it by 1.618 this is the amount I spend on my troops choices plus their transport. So in a 2000 pt army I have about 1236 points worth of troops.

Dark Angels - I usually take 4 troops at 1750-1850 and it doesn't matter if I'm playing Deathwing or Green Marines.
Tyranid - Almost always have all 6. I use lots of gaunts so it's easy to take all the slots.
Tau - Typically 3: 2 FW, 1 Kroot
Iyanden - I do take the 10 wraithguard troop unit as I wouldn't consider my army Iyanden if I didn't so that usually only leaves points for 1 or 2 more troops.

Six full platoons of death korps, obviously. (not)

This tends to bug me alot
Due to playing a mix of BA and ork im allways struggling on troop choices.

With orks you can throw 1,000 points into troops and not only have a rather large army, but also have enough points left to field alot moer to add some impact.
With BA the unit cost on troops seems insane compared to orks, so i allways seem to take more than i actually need.

Orks - allways take 5 troop choices (maybe a 6th comprise dof gretchin)
BA - allways take 3-4 units (once again, maybe another unit of scouts)

I'm going to prove myself the daring fellow and go against everyone's statements of "3-4!" with the following

TWO

Now, bear in mind I'm talking about 2 units of 12 plaguebearers, unless I'm playing 2000+ then there's 3 of 10. I lose both squads in maybe 1 in 10 or so games, usually against orks when I let them charge full 30 boy mobs into them and they all attack on the charge.

With my guard, it's usually just 2, until I hit about 2000 (then it's 3 mech vets and a platoon, usually); a vet squad and a platoon of PCS/infantry/infantry/infantry. Chimera the vets and the PCS, give the guardsmen a flamer and a meltabomb to keep them from getting chased off the board by empty rhinos, and walk them in front of your demolishers/executioners. Objective taking/keeping hilarity ensues.

I agree with sourclams... I think the number of troops you take hinges on the army/race you play. I primarily play Blood Angels and I will field 3 troops at 1850 points or 4 troops at 2500 points... at 2000 points I will field 3 troops as this is an extension of my 1850 point list so I use the additional 150 points to take something along the lines of a cheap HS unit such as a Baal predator or some attack bikes (FA). These levels have always worked out well for me so far.

G

As a Daemons player, I bring as many as I can, usually limiting at 5; This is usually at 1000 points to 1500 though. As a Grey Knights player, let's just say I take whatever I can fit in.

I've played a lot of armies and it really does depend on what you want to do.

IG : 3 @ 1,000 ; 4 @ 1,500; 6 @ 2,000+

Their Vets in Chimeras are deadly and don't subtract from firepower so I always like to load up.

Space Marines: 2 @ 1,000; 3 @ 1,500+

I find SM troops a bit weak for their cost to be honest.

Nids: 2 @ 500+

WoN Gaunts in small groups are win in all cases, I can spend a total of 128 points on troops in a 2,500 point game and still compete.

indigo_jones wrote:

Pika_power wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:As far as orks, it doesn't really matter how many you take, your going to get beat by any decent army anyways.

Lolwut? Orks are one of the best armies around atm.

Well at least you are good with rules Gwar!.

Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

What ork player is ever scared of termies? Mass volume of attacks beats any 2+ save unit. Give me my thirty boyz against 10 termies any day. Or kan walls with KMBs if you're feeling frisky.

AV14 is.....AV 14, its a problem, every codex has weaknesses.

Although I am one of the people who tend to think that the ork codex can produce some tier 1 lists I'd take 10 assault termies against 30 ork boys any day.

To get back on topic though; I use 3 tac. squads in razorbacks or rhinos at 1850, or 3 squads of berzerkers in LRs at the same pts. level.

Gwar! wrote:

indigo_jones wrote:

Pika_power wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Timmah wrote:As far as orks, it doesn't really matter how many you take, your going to get beat by any decent army anyways.

Lolwut? Orks are one of the best armies around atm.

Well at least you are good with rules Gwar!.

Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

What ork player is ever scared of termies? Mass volume of attacks beats any 2+ save unit. Give me my thirty boyz against 10 termies any day. Or kan walls with KMBs if you're feeling frisky.

AV14 is.....AV 14, its a problem, every codex has weaknesses.

Wheeeee Pyramid! And anyway aren't Nobz and Warbosses for Dealing with AV 14?

I just wanted to elongate the pyramid, tbh.

And hopefully annoy Nurglitch.

Anywaaaaay, 10 TH/SS Termies aren't in ANY way afraid of 30 Orks, even assuming (lols) the Orks get to charge. Since the Ork player, presumably, isn't Fail, the Boyz have Shootas. So (29*3A=) 87 Attacks, half of which hit (44, being kind) half wound (22) saves are failed on a 1, so 1/6 = 4, being really, really kind. Nob hits with 4 A (2 hit, 2 wound, one dies, after 3+ Invul.) Orks kill 5 total. On the charge. 6 TH/SS guys strike back, with 12 A = 6 hit= 5 wound = 5 kills = drawn combat. IF we give the Orks the benefit of the doubt, AND assume all 30 get into the combat. Next round, too many Orks in B2B for any supporting Ork units (though SM turn anyway) - assuming no Marines join in, the Orks can expect to kill 1, from the Nob AND Boyz put together, 4 TH/SS guys kill approx 4, 3 more Orks die to Fearless wounds...the Orks are stuck, and won't win. that also didn't assume Vulkan in the list (which, obviously, he would be) - the Terminators would win.

Also,

ThatEdGuy wrote:I actually realized a while back that I had started using the golden ratio for the amount of troops I have; now I use it all the time because it seems to work perfectly for my mounted orks.

Take the total points for the army and divide it by 1.618 this is the amount I spend on my troops choices plus their transport. So in a 2000 pt army I have about 1236 points worth of troops.

I see no purpose to the formula, when it gives no indication as to how many choices that is. Some armies can easily shell out 400 points on a single Troops. Stupid, yes - but like I say all the time, points breakdown is a 2nd Ed piece of bollocks that's thankfully gone, replaced with the FoC which makes far more sense, and is more fun for players who don't play BAs.

Pika_power wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Huh? Since when did KFF meks, 30 Stron Boyz, Nob Bikers and Lootas suddenly become crap?

When people realised that Orks are terrified of AV14 and terminators. Cue Land Raiders.

Yeah... terrified of Terminators if by terrified you mean "tickled". I'm always happy when I see Land Raiders since that means there's another 15 Marines that are not on the table.

The last time I faced Terminators in a Land Raider it ended when my Battlewagon tank shocked his Terminators, two of them died to the Deff Rolla, they failed their Morale test and then broke for the board edge. When the Skorchas from the Nobs hit him and two more died he just gave up.

Yep, that one "terrified" me.

Oh and I pretty much always max out Troops when I play Orks. A Grot mob only costs 40 points.

^ TGG, please see Maths in my post. Arguing with a lucky instance against a player who shouldn't have allowed that to happen < Maths.

On the Ork issue Burnas in Battle Wagon> SS/TT Termies in Land Raider.

Anywaaaaay, 10 TH/SS Termies aren't in ANY way afraid of 30 Orks, even assuming (lols) the Orks get to charge. Since the Ork player, presumably, isn't Fail, the Boyz have Shootas. So (29*3A=) 87 Attacks, half of which hit (44, being kind) half wound (22) saves are failed on a 1, so 1/6 = 4, being really, really kind. Nob hits with 4 A (2 hit, 2 wound, one dies, after 3+ Invul.) Orks kill 5 total. On the charge. 6 TH/SS guys strike back, with 12 A = 6 hit= 5 wound = 5 kills = drawn combat. IF we give the Orks the benefit of the doubt, AND assume all 30 get into the combat. Next round, too many Orks in B2B for any supporting Ork units (though SM turn anyway) - assuming no Marines join in, the Orks can expect to kill 1, from the Nob AND Boyz put together, 4 TH/SS guys kill approx 4, 3 more Orks die to Fearless wounds...the Orks are stuck, and won't win. that also didn't assume Vulkan in the list (which, obviously, he would be) - the Terminators would win.

You're also forgetting the shooting attacks before the charge. That would be 60 shots, 20 hits, 1.66 dead Termies. The rest of your math is fine so we get a total of 6.163 kills for the Orks, 4.5 in CC so we'll say 4. That is worth 240 points on average. That Ork mob is only worth 220 points if you kill it all.

Now the 4 remaining termies hit back killing 3.33 Orks. They lose, but being marines they stay in combat.

Orks attack again killing 1.43 with regular boys and the warboss kills 0.625. The Termies attack again and kill 2.5 boys this time. Orks lose this time and lose an ork to no retreat.

Orks attack again killing 1.222 termies, and the warboss once again kills 0.625. The lone remaining Termie kills 0.833 orks before dying.

Orks leave combat with a Nob and 21 boys left. Orks win.