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JohnHwangDD wrote:I have no need to troll - I actually am pretty decent shot at the range.

Of course, it is fair to note that the targets don't shoot back...

I think that's a big, big difference. Don't want to offend you personally, but war is much more and much worse than being at the shooting range. I haven't been in one, and I'm glad. I think everyone who hasn't can be glad. I bet the real war veterans that spoke up in this thread can tell you their share of stories-you-wouldn't-want-to-witness.

To be on topic, "veteran" is a word that is quite general. It's a good thing some people reflect on their hobby in a questioning way; wargames isn't a thing to be taken too lightly. It's okay to play them, but you should always be aware of their "weight". However, one doesn't have to be too sensitive. If you've put some though into what you're doing as a pastime, you might well use the word "veteran". Just don't take (real) war too easy, and you should be okay.

Then again, maybe it's just a German point of view. I've always wondered what other nations' position towards war and wargames is. I think the education elsewhere is quite different, and so might be the opinions at adult age.

Silverthorne wrote:
And veteran isn't really offensive at all. My Dad is a veteran surgeon, because of his long service. And even though I'm an officer and he is a civilian, since I'm so light in gold braid nobody really calls me a veteran, even though I am. Savvy?

Are you really a veteran? I should clarify, I don't know you or anything about you, but being "light in gold braid" mught sugest that whilst you may be familiar with "warfare" but are you really in the creme de la creme of people who have seen everything, really are experienced, or are you just, more than fresh out of baisic. Again, I don't want to cause offence, I'm just wondering as to how you define veteran, All I have to go on is your D.P. which is a yound wonam, so thats how I think of you
TBF, I'm not one to talk, I desperatly want to join, but haven't.


To the origional post, I don't think it shows disrespect, the majority or wargamers have a huge respect for soldiers, it's just that we all take on the persona of a miliatary commander(or screaming loony) and veteran fits in to describe someone who has a deal of experience.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Aww, I love Eeyore.

That doesn't surprise me.

Completely off topic but what kind of fish meangreen?

Cichlids are my bag, I used to mod over on Cichlid-Forum many moons ago as 'Hap44'.

Although I've kept hundreds of species over the years, freshwater that is, I only started marines for a couple of years when I had to move and I've not kept fish for about a year now, miss it terribly.

So if you have any fish questions, you can ask me if you like, I might be able to help.

Kyley wrote:

Silverthorne wrote:
And veteran isn't really offensive at all. My Dad is a veteran surgeon, because of his long service. And even though I'm an officer and he is a civilian, since I'm so light in gold braid nobody really calls me a veteran, even though I am. Savvy?

Are you really a veteran? I should clarify, I don't know you or anything about you, but being "light in gold braid" mught sugest that whilst you may be familiar with "warfare" but are you really in the creme de la creme of people who have seen everything, really are experienced, or are you just, more than fresh out of baisic. Again, I don't want to cause offence, I'm just wondering as to how you define veteran, All I have to go on is your D.P. which is a yound wonam, so thats how I think of you
TBF, I'm not one to talk, I desperatly want to join, but haven't.


To the origional post, I don't think it shows disrespect, the majority or wargamers have a huge respect for soldiers, it's just that we all take on the persona of a miliatary commander(or screaming loony) and veteran fits in to describe someone who has a deal of experience.

Yeah, I'm like really a veteran. Like you read about. Officers don't go to 'baisic', but no, I'm not 'fresh out of' our equivalent either.

Golly, this is a bit of a non-discussion, isn't it? 'Veteran' is used in all sorts of contexts, but in our hobby it's usually used in conjunction with the word 'gamer', so it's neither disrespectful of returned servicemen (as they used to be called) and nor is it confusing. 'Grognard' is a terrible word (in the same way as 'gusset' is a terrible word) - who wants to be called a grognard? It also tends to be used to describe hard-core historical wargamers, rather than participants in this hobby. I'd rather be a veteran gamer any day. Never mind, though - we've discovered that one of our members likes Eeyore. Which is cool - I like Eeyore too. And MeanGreenStompa likes fish. Which is also cool as well as being slightly unexpected.

Having established that most veteran soldiers don't mind the use of the term 'veteran gamer', perhaps the thread should be closed before someone does actually offend a real veteran?

Um...

Hate to burst bubbles here buuuuuuut:

I'm pretty sure that the slang term veteran for GW gamers comes from the Space Marine veteran squads.

As in: Space Marines are the most popular army/ focus of the game ----> People who have been around a long time have a nickname based on the name for old Space Marines.

I mean, yes it does have to do with being veterans in the sense of having lots of experience, too, I get that, but I always assumed that the term was more associated with Space Marines than anything else. Much like how the word Grognard is Wargamer-speak for the same thing and is a common term in Historical Games since Napoleonics was one of the first time periods represented in miniatures games.

So what I'm basically saying is that if old space marines were called something different, like say, I dont know, greyjowls, we would probably call veteran GW games Greyjowls

Euron Crowseye wrote:Um...

Hate to burst bubbles here buuuuuuut:

I'm pretty sure that the slang term veteran for GW gamers comes from the Space Marine veteran squads.

As in: Space Marines are the most popular army/ focus of the game ----> People who have been around a long time have a nickname based on the name for old Space Marines.

I mean, yes it does have to do with being veterans in the sense of having lots of experience, too, I get that, but I always assumed that the term was more associated with Space Marines than anything else. Much like how the word Grognard is Wargamer-speak for the same thing and is a common term in Historical Games since Napoleonics was one of the first time periods represented in miniatures games.

So what I'm basically saying is that if old space marines were called something different, like say, I dont know, greyjowls, we would probably call veteran GW games Greyjowls

Hmm, it's an interesting theory but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. As has been rehashed elsewhere in this thread, the term veteran doesnt have in itself military connections; however it has become associated with military service, particular in US English, less so in UK English. Again, as pointed out before, the term can be used interchangeably to describe anyone of longstanding experience or history. An example being of a long time football (soccer) player here in the UK might well be described as a veteran purely by dint of being around for a while. It doesn't have anything to do with veteran Space marines; in point of fact, the term veteran Space Marine is used to describe a regular Space Marine but one who has a heap of experience behind him.

Euron Crowseye wrote:So what I'm basically saying is that if old space marines were called something different, like say, I dont know, greyjowls, we would probably call veteran GW games Greyjowls

Why doesn't anyone call veteran gamers Terminators, then?

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Euron Crowseye wrote:So what I'm basically saying is that if old space marines were called something different, like say, I dont know, greyjowls, we would probably call veteran GW games Greyjowls

Why doesn't anyone call veteran gamers Terminators, then?

Because we would expect them to smell of cordite, oiled servos and sacred unguents, not B.O, halitosis and Burger King!

This is all so beautifully PC.


I can see it now, old men standing around gaming tables discussing the intawebz;

Dakka Dakka, HA! Pollitically Correctness gone mad I tells ya!

Since I think of military vets as Diggers.. the whole idea of the clash never occurred to me.

You are missing the entire point of "context." You took the word out of its context so of course you are having problems.

I dare say that not many random passers-by are spending enough time in a GW branch or wargaming store to be reading posters/calendar entries on "veteran's nights" and thinking that former military personnel are gathering in a store filled with grown-up nerds, socially-inept college students, and children to tell old war tales around the fire.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Aww, I love Eeyore.

you ARE Eeyore.

Polonius wrote:
No offense taken, and yeah, I think it's probably just my own residual guilt about not serving. Good call on that.

Wondered about putting it out there. Can be touchy for some.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have no need to troll - I actually am pretty decent shot at the range.

Of course, it is fair to note that the targets don't shoot back...

Can it be that the point zoomed past you that much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Silverthorne wrote:...
Yeah, I'm like really a veteran. Like you read about. Officers don't go to 'baisic', but no, I'm not 'fresh out of' our equivalent either.

Glad someone understood that post. Looked like gobbledygook to me there in the middle. What branch?

Cairnius wrote:You are missing the entire point of "context." You took the word out of its context so of course you are having problems.

And you're missing the entire point of connotation, which is an equally subjective matter in many cases. This thread has nothing to do with context. The OP was asking a question about the connotation of the word veteran.

Gotta go with dogma on this one.