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I agree with Sanchez. How can one model kill twenty models?

Hate: Defensive weapons being str. 5 and KPs.

Love: The Run rule and only Troops scoring.

Worst rules?

Pages 16-24
Page 30
Pages 56-73
Page 91

Oh I almost forgot I deeply deeply HATE Dawn Of War Deployment LOL!

Best Rule would be Solar Pulse from the necron wargear. That totally breaks Dawn of War first turn shooting .
(For one necron turn of night fighting you ignore the night fighting rules for all units, then for the next turn you have to use night fighting rules when shooting at the lord's unit)


Worst Rule: Phase Out. That was a good balance in 4th edition cause you could massive blow up vehicles, now it's just ridiculous in a bad way.

Best: Hmmm I like faith a lot and I really like any special movement rules (run, fleet, hit and run, extra 6" for jetbikes that kind of thing).

Worst: Without fail the new wound allocation rules. They slow the game down massively, they're hugely counter-intuitive, they potentially completely screw over armies who rely on their special weapon troopers and they are open to so much "gaming" (i.e. abuse that is better for winning the game but against the spirit of the rule and the thing the rule is meant to simulate) like invbulnerable nobs or all the low ap hits been allocated to one random grunt.

Horrible, horrible rules. Change them back to the way they were.

Worst:
1) Fearless Wounds -- how does this make sense? especially when matched against Nids with psychic scream

2) Kill Points-- simply add the point value for the unit destroyed, end of story. Use a calculator.

3) Reserves-- the ability to keep everything in reserve is the bain of drop pod armies and demons as well as making dawn of war pointless. You should be allowed to hold either 2 units in reserve or as many units with deepstrike/outflank USR in your list, whichever is greater. Fight like a MAN!

4) Rules completely prohibiting you from firing into an engaged assault. If i want to risk shooting my own troops for the chance to take down a rampaging walker or MC, I should be capable of taking it!

5) Chaos Icons

6) Random Game Length

Best Rule:
1) TLOS



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah and I think everything should be scoring... at the very least HQ!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaos should also be able to ally with Chaos Demons. Ok i'm done i promise

Going off what Deuce said, the nerfed summoned daemons, now they're basically summonable meat-shields that just suck up points if not in assault. Especially bad if you're against a shooty army.

Deuce11 wrote:Worst:
1) Fearless Wounds -- how does this make sense? especially when matched against Nids with psychic scream

2) Kill Points-- simply add the point value for the unit destroyed, end of story. Use a calculator.

3) Reserves-- the ability to keep everything in reserve is the bain of drop pod armies and demons as well as making dawn of war pointless. You should be allowed to hold either 2 units in reserve or as many units with deepstrike/outflank USR in your list, whichever is greater. Fight like a MAN!

4) Rules completely prohibiting you from firing into an engaged assault. If i want to risk shooting my own troops for the chance to take down a rampaging walker or MC, I should be capable of taking it!

5) Chaos Icons

6) Random Game Length

Best Rule:
1) TLOS



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah and I think everything should be scoring... at the very least HQ!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaos should also be able to ally with Chaos Demons. Ok i'm done i promise

You appear to have requested 3rd edition? Good lord no.

Random Game Length is a fantastic rule. Anyone who remembers 3rd ed cleanse and the turn 6 everybody scramble to a different quarter maneouvre knows why.

Best: The sagas for the Spacewolves are pretty dang cool, not going to lie. Lumbering Behemoth is pretty cool, too.

Worst: The entire 5th edition rulebook.

Best: Removing models from anywhere in the unit. It’s a simple rule, and while some people struggle with the abstraction it neatly solves the issue of range and LOS sniping – rules abuses that could make the game unplayable.

Worst: Running. It was bad enough when Tyranids would use fleet of claw to move every model twice per turn, slowing games to a crawl, but at least it was a distinctive rule for them (technically for elder as well but they weren’t running 100+ models across the board into assault), and it made sense given they were superhumanly quick. Now apparently every unit in the game is superhumanly quick, although be it at the cost of making the game incredibly slow.




Edit: Actually, the best rule is that Chimeras are amphibious. This is objective truth.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

You appear to have requested 3rd edition? Good lord no.

Random Game Length is a fantastic rule. Anyone who remembers 3rd ed cleanse and the turn 6 everybody scramble to a different quarter maneouvre knows why.

I think i was on 40K hiatus during 3rd, so your input was helpful.

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:Hmm oddly enough my favourite is daemonkin the best way is to simply put them in a rhino in reserve then whatever you roll it can be used correctly.

? Isn't one of the results Scouts? Which you can't use because you've already placed the unit in regular Reserves?

The both best and worst rule in 40k is Deep Strike

Best because you can suddenly put a unit anywhere on the table, and some units have special rules that let them assault as they come down!

Worst because you have no control over where they come down and they tend to scatter a lot. Even worse is how some of the old 3rd edition codex special rules deal with deep strikes ("Monolith is not destroyed in a mishap" "...but, you could go back into reserve, or I could place it, does it just not mishap?")

but I love gutsy deepstrikes, even better from my opponent, if they mishap hey, thanks for the killpoint! If they hit dead on that makes a cool story to tell later.

Best rule - new combat resolution. No more oh look I've charged you on turn 2 now let's sit here and have a sissyfight for the rest of the game hurr.

Worst rule - new combat resolution. So your 11-strong squad of wolf scouts conga-lines onto my board edge, assaults a fire warrior squad, 2 units of broadsides and a unit of crisis suits and they ALL run off the table because you racked up wounds on the fire warriors? Well that's just fantastic. Really.

Best: True LOS. I just wish so many people wouldn't take advantage over it. "That guys bolter-end is sticking out, I can shoot the WHOLE squad! But it's okay, you get a 4+ cover save..."

Worst: Sweeping Advances, it has been mentioned already I know, but I think that if they unit fails to break off sucessfully then they should take saves equall to waht they lost the combat by (like the Fearless rule) and THEN fall back. Regardless of whether the one model facing them catches them.

don_mondo wrote:

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:Hmm oddly enough my favourite is daemonkin the best way is to simply put them in a rhino in reserve then whatever you roll it can be used correctly.

? Isn't one of the results Scouts? Which you can't use because you've already placed the unit in regular Reserves?

Simple, outflank

Best
IG Orders
TLOS
Skimmers Moving Fast

Worst
Defensive Weapons being Strength 4
Kill Points

Deuce11 wrote:Worst:
1) Fearless Wounds -- how does this make sense?

At times yes.
This Weekend
15 Blood Claws with all the bells and whistles lead by a Wolf Priest
Turn 2
5 Vanguard Drops in with “Heroic Intervention”.
-I roll for Counter Attack, LD10 no problem, “11”
-They inflict 8 unsaved wounds, I none
-I take 8 wounds Fearless, save 4 times
Result, My 16 man Assault unit in one Phase is now 4 members strong and still locked in combat.

Worst = Fearless rule sucking bigtime in CC? What were they puffing on when they decided that route? Who wants a deadicated fearless unit now? I would prefer Combat Tactics to fearless. Fearless should be removed.

Best = Cover saves, most people will tell you rooting out a unit in cover should always be hard. Cover has force games to be interesting instead of the typical - (I stand and shoot you for 6 turns while you stand and shoot me for 6 turns.)

sniperjolly wrote:
The Inquisition would beg to differ, with C'Tan phase weapons, psycannons, psycannon bolts (on LRC's! ) incinerators and shieldbreaker rounds, "Invul" saves are toast... Unless you have a 3+ save

well, that proves my ignorance No one in my group plays the inquisition (I've thought about starting them myself) nor have I read their codex yet, so.

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:

don_mondo wrote:

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:Hmm oddly enough my favourite is daemonkin the best way is to simply put them in a rhino in reserve then whatever you roll it can be used correctly.

? Isn't one of the results Scouts? Which you can't use because you've already placed the unit in regular Reserves?

Simple, outflank

Nope, that's just it, it's too late to declare Outflank because you've already declared them into regular Reserves.
They don't get their "ability" until after all deployment is done, correct? So at the time you place them into Reserves, they're unable to Outflank since they do not yet have Scouts. And once placed into regular Reserves, you cannot change it.

My favorite rule is Cover Saves - everyone can get a 4+ cover save most of the time.

My least favorite rule is Cover Saves - everyone can get a 4+ cover save most of the time.

SJ

My favorite rule is the idea of armor piercing. That really influences troop choices in a more-complex-than-rock/paper/scissors fashion.

Least favorite? Units cannot assault out of a drop pod. Wtf. What kind of servant of the Imperium are you, just standing there after being smashed to earth at great expense to the Emporer? You were launched from space because you kill people. Often. Get on with it already. I mean, if you are a genetically engineered super-soldier from hell wearing super power armor and you are just waiting to massacre everything that breathes and isn't human... ok. I think you get my point. I flicking hate that rule.

Not being able to take all saves: I have a 3+ save, am in cover and the cover doesn't do anything. Sure it keeps things fair but it's a bit unrealistic

Being in range of 1 model in a squad and being able to kill it all with 1 round of shooting.

I'm basing this on improvements of the main rule set over previous editions.

Best: Troops as scoring units. This is harder for some armies than others, and lots of codices kind of get around it by making slots elsewhere on the force organization chart count as troops slots, but overall I think it's effective at forcing players to take more troops choices thus representing the intent of the force organization chart better than merely saying "must take 2 troops". It also adds a deeper tactical aspect to the game, as the troops choices actually need to stay alive now!

Worst: Kill points. The complete opposite of the above. It limits tactics a lot. Players are discouraged from making armies of several small units, running independent characters without retinues, or even taking the one or two fun (and sometimes highly effective) "suicide" units anymore solely because it means possibility of more kill points for the enemy. With kill points, it's possible to do more damage to the enemy than they do to you and still lose the game. LAAAAME.

Overall I have to say 5th edition is a lot smoother to play than past editions. Still needs some tweaks as always, but has noticeably improved. Throw in sensible gaming by the players and I'm pretty satisfied with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

don_mondo wrote:

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:

don_mondo wrote:

waaagh!orksrocks wrote:Hmm oddly enough my favourite is daemonkin the best way is to simply put them in a rhino in reserve then whatever you roll it can be used correctly.

? Isn't one of the results Scouts? Which you can't use because you've already placed the unit in regular Reserves?

Simple, outflank

Nope, that's just it, it's too late to declare Outflank because you've already declared them into regular Reserves.
They don't get their "ability" until after all deployment is done, correct? So at the time you place them into Reserves, they're unable to Outflank since they do not yet have Scouts. And once placed into regular Reserves, you cannot change it.

Ok that's just hilarious. Maybe it's a joke... instead of just saying "on a roll of 1, no ability" they gave them a useless ability. Or is there already a no ability option? Please say yes, I will poo myself laughing. I <3 GW

abortedsoul wrote:Least favorite? Units cannot assault out of a drop pod. Wtf. What kind of servant of the Imperium are you, just standing there after being smashed to earth at great expense to the Emporer? You were launched from space because you kill people. Often. Get on with it already. I mean, if you are a genetically engineered super-soldier from hell wearing super power armor and you are just waiting to massacre everything that breathes and isn't human... ok. I think you get my point. I flicking hate that rule.

It's the seatbelts man, you gotta remember they wear their seatbelts! (for fear of the emperor's wrath and a $94 fine) And those seatbelts aren't the kind where you push a button to release. They're the automatic ones where you have to sit there with your door open like a doofus while it slides forward at a creeping pace. That's why they can't assault.

Favorite rule?

The one that lets my Librarian warp out of close combat, obviously. And any other rule that doesn't explicitly say I can't do something, so therefore I can do anything I want.

Worst rule?

Anything that keeps me from braking the game in my favor. I hate when I have to get the consent of my opponent on my own personal interpretations of the rules.


Ok so seriously now.
Favorite: FNP, Blight Grenades, and Mishaps with the SAG.

Worst: The mix-match of "realism" rules along side rules that fall in line with the more fantastic. EG TLOS "I'm in range of that one dude, so I will kill the entire squad by blasting that single model to pieces." Apparently, in the 41st millennium, you can massacre a single guy so horribly that all of his friends die too as a result, simply by being said massacred dude's friend.

HiveMind09 wrote:Apparently, in the 41st millennium, you can massacre a single guy so horribly that all of his friends die too as a result, simply by being said massacred dude's friend.

They did explain this in the rulebook. Remember the part about ricochets?

Feel no Pain, wtf come on AP 1 and 2 can kill you?
I thought this was FEEL NO PAIN!
*face palm*

Feel no pain isn't the same as feel no incineration. It doesn't matter how beserk you are, something that shreads flesh and bone will still kill you outright.

Worst rule (and it's been mentioned alot): no retreat. In addition to the nerfing of glancing weapons, it did in the practicality of running swarm nids, and rather hurt orks (which also have a 6+ save) too. Space marines, being armor 3+, don't give a gak about the rules change. Hurrrrr.