Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

JWDD either only ever sees things from his own point of view, or is a troll.

didn't this thread have something to do with white dwarf? i can't recall after reading all this off topic stuff.

God forbid a discussion should develop organically.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I'm finding your patronising and smug-choked posts somewhat irritating but I will reply nonetheless.

they should have an obligation to maintain ALL armies they produce, not just the best selling ones.

Buying models is a costly business, a full army is an expensive thing to acquire, when people buy them they do so with the understanding that the army won't be shelved or neglected and yet GW keep doing this.

What I find most boggling whilst discussing this with you is that you own a 'squatted' army, your Fantasy Dogs of War and are often to be found bemoaning their extinction, yet you find nothing wrong with a tiered and prejudicial system leaving the owners of other armies without updates and in certain cases also relegated to the scrap heap.

It's a clear double standard in what you're posting.

You find *my* patronizing and smug posts irritating? Really? *holds up mirror* YOU"RE BLACK!

OK, then it appears we differin what we mean by the word "maintain". To me, it means that GW does something for them eventually, even if it means they merely keep army alive in name (e.g. Dark Eldar) and basic availability. I believe that the GW Studio has done *far* more for Dark Eldar than their players realize, and that if it were a pure dollars and cents issue, Dark Eldar would have been formally Squatted in 2004, like Sisters in 3rd or 4th, and Necrons as well.

I buy minis with the notion that I will play with them for some foreseeable future. If I get 5 years out of them, I've done OK. A decade? Awesome. I no longer gamble on armies that I don't see going long term (e.g. DE, Kroot).

I find absolutely nothing wrong with a steeply-tiered and highly-prejudicial system of updates as in 40k. In 40k, I can predict with some fairly strong certainty which armies will get updates, and when they will get them. So I think the 40k system is *excellent*. It allows GW to keep core armies moving forward, while also having large numbers of non-core armies available for flavor and specialization. It let's me choose whether I want to be on a fast, or slow update schedule, based on the army. I would prefer GW formally lay bare which armies are which, if only to silence those who haven't been keeping score, but as most of us can figure it out, it's not a big deal.

I am less happy with the WFB system, because both the DoW and CD armies were scrapped without explanation. This, after the Storm of Chaos army legality debacle. For a system as old as WFB, you'd think GW could keep this stuff straight. But then, I've basically given up on Fantasy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:JWDD either only ever sees things from his own point of view, or is a troll.

Who's "JWDD"?

If you're referring to me, try "JHDD".

Da Boss wrote:JWDD either only ever sees things from his own point of view, or is a troll.

I think you'll find it's "and", not "or".

JohnHwangDD wrote:

I find absolutely nothing wrong with a steeply-tiered and highly-prejudicial system of updates as in 40k. In 40k, I can predict with some fairly strong certainty which armies will get updates, and when they will get them. So I think the 40k system is *excellent*. It allows GW to keep core armies moving forward, while also having large numbers of non-core armies available for flavor and specialization. It let's me choose whether I want to be on a fast, or slow update schedule, based on the army. I would prefer GW formally lay bare which armies are which, if only to silence those who haven't been keeping score, but as most of us can figure it out, it's not a big deal.

I am less happy with the WFB system, because both the DoW and CD armies were scrapped without explanation. This, after the Storm of Chaos army legality debacle. For a system as old as WFB, you'd think GW could keep this stuff straight. But then, I've basically given up on Fantasy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:JWDD either only ever sees things from his own point of view, or is a troll.

Who's "JWDD"?

If you're referring to me, try "JHDD".

Oh, sorry. Slight spelling mistake there.

You do realise that GW have never outright stated your tier system for 40K right? So the situation is actually WORSE than the situation for fantasy? I don't understand how you can be happy with one and think it is excellent and unhappy with another, when there is no difference between them from GW's official standpoint.
If GW were honest and forthright about tiering, I'd have very little problem with it- people would have realistic expectations. As it is, people will assume that all armies get equal treatment (because this would be the reasonable, fair way to do it) and will therefore be butthurt when they wait 2 editions with no update.
There is also no real reason that they couldn't release the rules much faster or even all at once, considering they don't bother to playtest.

Da Boss wrote:Oh, sorry. Slight spelling mistake there.

You do realise that GW have never outright stated your tier system for 40K right?

So the situation is actually WORSE than the situation for fantasy?

I don't understand how you can be happy with one and think it is excellent and unhappy with another, when there is no difference between them from GW's official standpoint.

As it is, people will assume that all armies get equal treatment (because this would be the reasonable, fair way to do it) and will therefore be butthurt when they wait 2 editions with no update.

There is also no real reason that they couldn't release the rules much faster or even all at once, considering they don't bother to playtest.

Oh, OK, no problem.

The only thing that GW's stated is that they're going to continue supporting armies that have printed 40k3+ Codices / WFB6+ books. They never said how, or how effectively. So far, GW seems to be holding true to that statement, and it's unfortunate (read "utter gak") that DoW and CD got caught out in the cold. Of course, players having the patience of a housefly doesn't help things along.

Given that no statement has been made for WFB either, I fail to see how things are worse in 40k than Fantasy. Fantasy balance is worse, and cannot be "fixed" for 4 or 5 years, waiting for the most common armies get their updates.

I'm a realist, so I'm paying more attention to what GW does than what they say, and what actually happens vs what GW says will happen. From a results standpoint, I'm happier with 40k. Could it change? Perhaps. But the idea that GW would cancel any of my current armies is a bit unlikely. Although, as I do collect SMs, I suppose some segment of Dakka would be joyous over that particular thought.

Given that GW hasn't ever stated they'd do every army, every edition, I don't know why people expect this.

I'm sure if GW thought they could make more money via a faster release schedule, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

It's obvious that the wargaming business world is different from everything else. I can't imagine any company promising to support X product with the caveat that they'll do it whenever, if ever they get around to it.
GW is one of the few companies that apparently can get away with that.

I think people are wondering though what has happened to GW. The White Dwarfs have gone down hill clearly.Gamedays are not what they were if you believe the reports and commentary from people who've gone to many over the years.
The prices keep going up and while the general quality of the minis is decent (The ones that get updated anyway) the pricing scheme is obviously a dart board with prices on it they have a blind guy throw darts at.
While there is some nerd-rage going on, it's the internet after all, I hear it even at my local store.
People have invested a metric feth-ton of cash into their armies and they expect some kind of bone thrown to them.

Business is business, I have no arguments there. Stay solvent or go bankrupt. But GW needs to with it.
How many codices/armybooks are over 5 years or 8 years or 10 years old?

Notice I didn't bring up DE?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:God forbid a discussion should develop organically.

QFT btw.

This thread has gotten quite a bit off topic (not to mention snippy) and so is being locked.

I know its fun to try to turn every thread into why you think Games Workshop has ruined their company and the hobby, but PLEASE try to stay on-topic!