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Cheese Elemental wrote:That's horrible. Are military personnel permitted to carry firearms inside the base when not training or on parade?
If not maybe they should have been.
Seriously though, this might just be one of those things where no one really made a mistake, but everything goes wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 00:13:49
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Twelve people have been killed and at least 31 injured after a soldier went on a shooting rampage at the Fort Hood military base in Texas.
Base commander Lieutenant-General Bob Cone says the gunman was killed during the incident at the facility, while two other soldiers were apprehended as suspects. The base is locked down.
* One shooter is dead and two suspects have been apprehended
* President Obama calls shooting a "horrific outburst of violence"
* Shooting took place before graduation ceremony
US media reports have named the dead gunman as Army Major Malik Nadal Hasan. It is understood the soldier, believed to be about 40 years old, was about to be deployed to Iraq. US media also identified him as an army pyschiatrist.
President Barack Obama, speaking during an event at the Department of the Interior in Washington, described the incident as a "horrific outburst of violence".
"It's difficult enough when we lose these brave Americans in battles overseas. It is horrifying that they should come under fire at an army base on American soil," he said.
Mr Obama offered his "thoughts and prayers" to the families of the victims.
"We are working with the Pentagon, FBI, Department of Homeland Security to ensure that Fort Hood is secure," he said.
"I would ask all Americans to keep the men and women of Fort Hood in our prayers."
The US Senate held a moment of silence in sombre acknowledgement of the shooting rampage.
Motive unclear
Lieutenant General Cone said the shooting took place about 1.30pm local time at a Soldier Readiness Facility, where troops preparing for overseas deployment were getting last-minute medical checkups.
"The shooter was killed. He was a soldier," he said.
"We since then have apprehended two additional soldiers who are suspects.
"They tracked the suspected individuals to an adjacent facility and they were apprehended. They are soldiers, but they are suspects at this time, and we are looking at that.
"There were eyewitness accounts that there may have been more than one shooter."
Christopher Hogue, chief of media at Fort Hood, told reporters: "The only one we know who was shooting was killed and he had two handguns."
The shooter was included in the total of 12 killed.
Pentagon officials said it was unclear what triggered the shooting.
"I don't know how anybody can speculate about motives at this time given how few facts we have," Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said.
A US Army official in Washington said the incident took place shortly before a scheduled graduation event at the base.
Foot Hood is the biggest military base in the world and a prime point of deployment for US operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It is home to about 50,000 troops, although Texas US Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison said there were about 35,000 troops at the base at the time.
Fort Hood is halfway between Austin and Waco, about 100 kilometres from each city.
The US Army is suffering a record high suicide rate and there has been plenty of other signs of stress from fighting two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
US media also identified him as an army pyschiatrist.
If that's similar to a psychiatrist, I don't know if he was very good at it.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Hmmm.... I can't imagine this being a group of civilians, or terrorists, so the facts sound pretty solid.
The psychiatrist may have been the sole reason any of this happened. PTSD is some very complicated stuff, and being in Iraq for a long time, probably comes with an enormous amount of stress for everyone. I would be interested in knowing what the history of these guys was. In all honesty, that may be part of the reason that this happened.
At any rate, the psychiatrist probably had a heavy dose of way too much reality, causing whatever issues were already present, to become that much worse.
Yeah, the fact that he was supposed to be, in a sense, above this kind of thing, analysing it, recommending help for others and such, may have made it harder for him to deal with himself.
Still don't know a whole lot about the situation at the moment, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 01:25:26
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Yeah, the fact that he was supposed to be, in a sense, above this kind of thing, analysing it, recommending help for others and such, may have made it harder for him to deal with himself.
Still don't know a whole lot about the situation at the moment, though.
It's ironic in a very grimdark and unfunny manner, isn't it?
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
I wonder just how depressing his job was. Hopefully we can find out because he's alive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 02:48:51
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
This happened a walk across the street from my old unit buildings. While all of my friends and colleagues are off doing other things (new duty stations, units are deployed), it really hits home as I still do have some friends in that area.
Speculation is running rampant on the airwaves and it's really starting to piss me off. So I've decided I'll wait until the Army and the Feds put out their info instead of listening to morons who know nothing talk out of their asses.
grey_death wrote:Speculation is running rampant on the airwaves and it's really starting to piss me off. So I've decided I'll wait until the Army and the Feds put out their info instead of listening to morons who know nothing talk out of their asses.
This is just another shining example of how speed is far more more important to the media than accuracy.
grey_death wrote:Speculation is running rampant on the airwaves and it's really starting to piss me off. So I've decided I'll wait until the Army and the Feds put out their info instead of listening to morons who know nothing talk out of their asses.
This is just another shining example of how speed is far more more important to the media than accuracy.
Good to hear the police officer that shot the guy is in a stable condition.
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Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sexiest_hero wrote:He had been ordered to be deplyed, and was a medical doctor and V.Tech Grad. (why do shooters come from there)
-MY PERSONAL GUESS- He was fed up with the war and being deployed in a war he felt was against his culture/beliefs, Texas has a lor of extreme blowhards who rant on the radio and on post. (I'm in the military I've heard the rants first hand) Who knows when or what turned a doctor who spent his whole life learning to save people, into a horrible mass murderer. I think he may have heard something that ate him up till he snapped.
He was never deployed. He was going to be deployed to deal with people there (noncombat).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 12:01:24
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
It's very sad. My friend's uncle was at Ft. Hood when it happened. If it weren't for the court-martial he was guarding the prisioners for, he would have been in the guman's path. For once, someone else's stupidity saved his life.
FORT HOOD, Texas – Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Well I guess we have most of the motive at this point...
This should set back Western/Islamic relations significantly.
A little heads up as to the guys rank after talking it over some with my wife:
He likely went in as an O3 and was promoted to O4 automatically after his residency. The medical field tends to do this to get Doctors and other professionals to a suitable pay grade for retainment.
This might help some understand how someone like this might make ranks in the military.
First off, my thoughs and prayers go out to the victims and their families.
Grey_death is right about how he became a major. I'm an officer in the army myself and medical service corp personnel along with JAG personnel often are directly commissioned at a higher grade as incentive and compensation for their level of expertise. Neurosurgeons, for example, are directly commissioned to either Lt. Colonel or Colonel.
I think we know his true motivations. As soon as I heard about this shooting, I pretty much assumed it was a Muslim. I know that's stereotypical and unbecoming, but in the post 9/11 world, I'm fairly sure most of us had the same thoughts.
I'm not saying that Islamic fanaticism was his only motivation, but it seems to definitely have been a contributing factor. It appears he may have been mentally unstable and drifted into extremism in search of comfort or a sense of belonging.
This brings me to another topic. Muslim extremism and it's stranglehold on the religion seems to global. Whether it is in Ft Hood, the Middle East, Europe, or Indonesia; the fanatics seem to have the reigns of the religion. I'm not accusing all muslims of supporting terrorism or stereoyping at all, but there seems to be al lack of real opposition to these extremists from within the ranks of the faithful.
Christianity and most major religions have skeletons in their closets of which they are not proud so I know this isn't just Islam. Where are the moderates? Where are the clerics stepping up and pointing these fanatics out?
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:
Christianity and most major religions have skeletons in their closets of which they are not proud so I know this isn't just Islam. Where are the moderates? Where are the clerics stepping up and pointing these fanatics out?
They, and most likely their families, are dead. Terrorists and insurgents have a nasty habit of taking out any moderates who stand in their way and their families besides, as incentive for others to stay out of their way.
From what I'm hearing through the grapevine this major was indeed a Muslim, and a fairly radical one at that. I heard some stuff about him catching flak in the workplace for being Muslim and that he had some pretty extreme things written on his website about killing infidels. It's sad that this is going to set back the Western view on Islam 20 years, and it's a tragedy that we lost so many good, badly needed soldiers.
There are lots of Muslims serving honorably in the US armed forces presently.
Prayers and best wishes to the families of all the personnel stationed at Fort Hood. Even apart from the victims, everyone who has a family member there (which is a huge number of people) knew fear yesterday.
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Frazzled wrote:FORT HOOD, Texas – Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:I think we know his true motivations. As soon as I heard about this shooting, I pretty much assumed it was a Muslim. I know that's stereotypical and unbecoming, but in the post 9/11 world, I'm fairly sure most of us had the same thoughts.
I'm not saying that Islamic fanaticism was his only motivation, but it seems to definitely have been a contributing factor. It appears he may have been mentally unstable and drifted into extremism in search of comfort or a sense of belonging.
This is all idle, baseless, and somewhat tasteless, speculation.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:My thoughs go out to the victims and their families.
Agreed.
BTW: Thanks for the rank clarification, my only point of reference was characters from M*A*S*H.
Frazzled wrote:FORT HOOD, Texas – Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:I think we know his true motivations. As soon as I heard about this shooting, I pretty much assumed it was a Muslim. I know that's stereotypical and unbecoming, but in the post 9/11 world, I'm fairly sure most of us had the same thoughts.
I'm not saying that Islamic fanaticism was his only motivation, but it seems to definitely have been a contributing factor. It appears he may have been mentally unstable and drifted into extremism in search of comfort or a sense of belonging.
This is all idle, baseless, and somewhat tasteless, speculation.
No its not actually.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
"Lt. Gen. Robert Cone said officials had not yet confirmed that the suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, made the comment before the rampage Thursday. Hasan was among 30 people wounded in the shooting spree"
"An imam from a mosque Hasan regularly attended said Hasan, a lifelong Muslim, was a committed soldier, gave no sign of extremist beliefs and regularly wore his uniform at prayers."
Of course its not going to be confirmed. This has occurred before. The government doesn't want the Joe Sixpack to get worried that home grown stuff occurs here on a small, unorganized scale. Thats all I'll say about that on this board.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 15:32:04
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
In the UK we have plenty of moderate Muslim clerics who work against extremism, and a few extremists, some of whom we've kicked out of the country.
The key point is that extremism doesn't suck people in unless they are vulnerable in some way.
An extremist could come into my office now and harangue us all for an hour and he wouldn't get any converts because we all have decent jobs, security, respect, supportive families, a purpose in life and all that good stuff. (One of my guys is a Muslim already, FWIW.)
It looks like this major had a number of mental pressures in his life. He was unmarried and unhappy about that. He wasn't successful in his professional life. He disagreed with the war in Iraq. He probably felt some degree of pressure from intolerant people just because of being a Muslim.
Lots of people flip out and start mass killings without being provoked to do so by Muslim extremism.
Cheese Elemental wrote:That's horrible. Are military personnel permitted to carry firearms inside the base when not training or on parade?
If not maybe they should have been.
Seriously though, this might just be one of those things where no one really made a mistake, but everything goes wrong.
This happened on a military base, and the answer mooted is still "More Guns!" Seriously, how many guns would be enough?
The scary thing is that in this case I almost agree with you. At least they would have been in the hands of people who knew how to use them and it would have been less likely to descend into a free-for-all.
I also wonder, what is it about VT? I spent time there myself back at the turn of the millenium and it seemed lovely. Is this just bad luck that he happens to have studied there, or is it a highly weaponised and tense place and I just never noticed?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/06 16:05:16
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