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Maybe this is their way of trying to abandon it without losing any, as some call it, "street cred".

...that's kind of a weird way to go about it then, because this makes them look pretty damn petty. Probably worse than if they had just straight up abandoned it (which they already have).

@ Kilkrazy: True.

What a great irony it is that the largest games manufacturer cannot support such a small game. 'Games Workshop' is becoming an increasingly inappropriate name for that company, 'Citadel' (fortified town) is much better.

Why don't the BB players just play with the existing rules. GW can't seize your rulebooks. Whats the issue and by that I mean GW can feth off. If they quit EPIC altogether it wouldn't keep me from occasionally playing EPIC.

Frazzled wrote:Why don't the BB players just play with the existing rules. GW can't seize your rulebooks. Whats the issue and by that I mean GW can feth off. If they quit EPIC altogether it wouldn't keep me from occasionally playing EPIC.

But official GW blood bowl tournaments will use their rules and omit the special player. ..lol...I made a funny.

I think it's hard for GW to support such games because they are such a large company.

Their business model is the sale of large numbers of figures. It probably takes as effort and money to get a new user into Blood Bowl as it takes to get them into 40K.

Even keen fans don't need more than two teams of figures, and there's no way to stimulate extra figure sales like they could with Apocalypse and the Troops only scoring rules.

I don't think GW are particularly to blame for this. It's the way businesses work due to economies of scale and so on. GW are a mass production company and can't do custom work because it isn't cost effective.

olympia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Why don't the BB players just play with the existing rules. GW can't seize your rulebooks. Whats the issue and by that I mean GW can feth off. If they quit EPIC altogether it wouldn't keep me from occasionally playing EPIC.

But official GW blood bowl tournaments will use their rules and omit the special player. ..lol...I made a funny.

Ok, I am not sure if your're speaking in jest so bear with me if that is the case.
Most tournaments in the US are non-GW store tourneys. The biggest tourneys are non GW (Adepticon, BOLcon, Bayou whatever for WFB down here). GW stores no longer holding tourneys would be a complete non-event to me.

Frazzled wrote:Why don't the BB players just play with the existing rules. GW can't seize your rulebooks. Whats the issue and by that I mean GW can feth off. If they quit EPIC altogether it wouldn't keep me from occasionally playing EPIC.

Games need new players to stay alive.

So in a nutshell, GW are annoyed that other companies are producing figures that fit into gaps in their own range. So instead of releasing figures to make their games fully playable they are removing the relevant rules! Great idea. Now it is naughty to advertise your figure as being ideal for someone else's range because you are riding on the back of their IP, but frankly what do you expect is going to happen if you don't support your own products year after year by not releasing the necessary miniatures to play the game?

Do they seriously think everyone is going to greenstuff their own Star Players because GW have stopped releasing figures?

GW are just taking players for granted. They think they can keep a small stock of Bloodbowl stuff to make the occasional sale and that earns them a profit without having to put an ounce of effort into product development. But in return for this they expect total fan loyalty, to only buy their product even though it's clear they are putting nothing into it at their end and offering an incomplete product. Customer loyalty works both ways, if you want people to remain loyal you support and respect their games. You can't expect to continually take money from customers for your product and inject nothing into it at your end and then become outraged when people start going to other companies to get their fix. Sheesh.

GW should sell the IP to those specialist games.

Necromunda would sell like hotcakes if in the hands of a vibrant and enthusiastic company.

I used to love Necromunda but now I feel that its strength is in its miniature range (not the specialist games ones or the plastics). If they merged it with Gorka Morka (think post Armageddon war fluff) and sorted out the rules it'd have some value.

Bloodbowl (and Epic) are the only rulesets that stand up to scrutiny. Many of GW's Bloodbowl miniatures are over twenty years old (and suck).

Im pretty sure GW didnt trademark the names of those star players (I dont think there is a legal way to stop a company from calling thier figures by that players name).

This may be especially true if they never made a figure for that player.

Great job GW!

You certainly can trademark a made up name. That's what Sony is.

If they were so afraid of "losing money" over a product they don't support, then maybe they should make the products that people obviously want enough to buy from other companies.

This kinds of reminds of a scene from the start of Blazing Saddles where the new sheriff puts the gun to his own head and threatens to pull the trigger.
About 2 mins 50 secs in here if you're interested.


I say wait until they release the rules, and THEN release your own 'elfball' figures. Or if they follow through on their own suicide, then a group of Bloodbowl players should get together, design, and test their own 'dwarfball rules', and distribute them to the community. If they actually follow through with this, I believe this spells the end for BloodBowl, and the beginning for Red-liquid bowl. The fanbase has been carrying on without GW support now for ages. If they survive GW's attempt to shut down the forums, they'll just switch over to BileBowl instead, and let GW rage impotently from their ivory towers on top of their mountain of gold.

I think the names of the star players are trade marked. Such things usually are put into one big "all things in this product are trade marked" grouping within the first few pages.

This is only speculation of where GW is coming from and why they are doing this:
If the companies making the "Star Players" for BB refer to the models by BB names and are not GW I think GW has the right to say "Don't call them or refer to them by those names because those names are the IP of GW". But if the companies only say "These would make great Star Players for other related games" then GW has no right to order them to stop.

The way I think of this, they left it well enough alone for years, and now they're going after those who are infringing on their rights.

There has to be something that prompted this. Companies do not invest resources (legal department, in this case) out of the blue, for no reason.

My guess is that it is either related to the new Bloodbowl videogame - because if you just licensed your property to a video-game company for $$$, that video game company is going to want exclusive rights to it - or that they are actually planning a reissue of Bloodbowl in the near future, and are preemptively getting the other fish out of the pond.

With the reissue of Space Hulk earlier this year, it would not surprise me if this was the case. But I think the licensing of the Video Game rights is also a likely reason for the renewed interest in Bloodbowl from GW Legal.

Kilkrazy wrote:You certainly can trademark a made up name. That's what Sony is.

Oh I know you can!

But I am sure they didnt, someone can doublecheck the US Trademark office.

Trademarking every name and character in thier universe would add up. I dont think a copyright due to publishing a written word translates to a trademark for products.

Redbeard wrote:...or that they are actually planning a reissue of Bloodbowl in the near future, and are preemptively getting the other fish out of the pond. With the reissue of Space Hulk earlier this year...

I think you're onto something there. A 'Space Hulk' style re-release would have no competition for basic models but independant Star players could.

Such a release would not need rules for Star Players (thus their possible removal from the v6 rules) but GW could make a small line of them (sculped like the new Mighty Zug - who may have been a test piece for such a concept) and as usual lose interest before they get round to sculpting them all...

...this is where GW would want to stop 3rd parties getting in on the act.

Redbeard wrote:The way I think of this, they left it well enough alone for years, and now they're going after those who are infringing on their rights.

There has to be something that prompted this. Companies do not invest resources (legal department, in this case) out of the blue, for no reason.

My guess is that it is either related to the new Bloodbowl videogame - because if you just licensed your property to a video-game company for $$$, that video game company is going to want exclusive rights to it - or that they are actually planning a reissue of Bloodbowl in the near future, and are preemptively getting the other fish out of the pond.

With the reissue of Space Hulk earlier this year, it would not surprise me if this was the case. But I think the licensing of the Video Game rights is also a likely reason for the renewed interest in Bloodbowl from GW Legal.

This is a good point. If the video game is coming out soon I don't think GW wants to be seen as incompetent by the video game company.

I know the last thing I would want to do is invest and work with someone who doesn't care about their product.

The difference with Space Hulk is that the game had been OOP for years.

BB is still in print, supported by a significant line of miniatures, and new edition rules are expected.

The whole argument is because GW are apparently threatening to pull all special characters from the new rules if third party companies don't stop marketing figures for them.

ProtoClone wrote:

This is a good point. If the video game is coming out soon I don't think GW wants to be seen as incompetent by the video game company.

I know the last thing I would want to do is invest and work with someone who doesn't care about their product.

It came out months ago.

nvillacci wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:You certainly can trademark a made up name. That's what Sony is.

Oh I know you can!

But I am sure they didnt, someone can doublecheck the US Trademark office.

Trademarking every name and character in thier universe would add up. I dont think a copyright due to publishing a written word translates to a trademark for products.

Here is the Trademark statement.

PRODUCED BY GAMES WORKSHOP
Blood Bowl, Games Workshop and the Games Workshop logo, the Citadel
castle, Slottabase, White Dwarf and Warhammer, Blood Bowl, Death Zone are
all registered trademarks of Games Workshop Ltd. Citadel, the Old World and
Skaven are trademarks of Games Workshop Ltd.
All artwork in all Games Workshop products and the images contained therein
have been produced either in-house or as work for hire. The exclusive
copyright on the artwork and the images it depicts is the property
of Games Workshop Ltd.
© Copyright Games Workshop Ltd, 2006. All rights reserved.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

UltraPrime wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:

This is a good point. If the video game is coming out soon I don't think GW wants to be seen as incompetent by the video game company.

I know the last thing I would want to do is invest and work with someone who doesn't care about their product.

It came out months ago.

Shows how much I have been paying attention to their other projects then.

redstripe wrote:If GW isn't going to make official miniatures for the Star Players, why the hell do they care if someone else does?

Because if XYX corp mini becomes the standard mini, the the GW mini won't sell if/when GW makes it.

Bravo, GW!

Maybe Gw can dump the Abomination from the Skaven book!

Oh, wait...

The fix seem simple:

Call the Player a "Special Teams" Player, and don't reference the obvious parallel between the model and the rules that point to the hole in the GW model line.

Make it a little less obvious, people.

Hmmm...clamping down on BB Fansites...now clamping down on non-GW models arguably intended (certainly advertised) for the game....and the PC version released, generating new interest.

Perhaps this is part of a build up to them tackling the game once more, with a full release? Take control of it back, then big fanfare when you release it once more with a full set of models.

Things appear to be stabilising sales and profits wise, so they might be looking into enhanced support for the Specialist Range?

Arses. Fateweaver beat me to the punch.

ProtoClone wrote:

nvillacci wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:You certainly can trademark a made up name. That's what Sony is.

Oh I know you can!

But I am sure they didnt, someone can doublecheck the US Trademark office.

Trademarking every name and character in thier universe would add up. I dont think a copyright due to publishing a written word translates to a trademark for products.

Here is the Trademark statement.

PRODUCED BY GAMES WORKSHOP
Blood Bowl, Games Workshop and the Games Workshop logo, the Citadel
castle, Slottabase, White Dwarf and Warhammer, Blood Bowl, Death Zone are
all registered trademarks of Games Workshop Ltd. Citadel, the Old World and
Skaven are trademarks of Games Workshop Ltd.
All artwork in all Games Workshop products and the images contained therein
have been produced either in-house or as work for hire. The exclusive
copyright on the artwork and the images it depicts is the property
of Games Workshop Ltd.
© Copyright Games Workshop Ltd, 2006. All rights reserved.

Um yeah, that doesnt state that those names are trademarked, only a few names like Blood Bowl etc. Again I am pretty sure those "star" names arent trademarked so other manufacturer can probably use them to describe the products.

That is true however it does not invalidate what I said earlier on, that GW can still delete the characters from their rules.

As someone on Frothers Unite put it:

Make rules for new characters.
Don't make figures for the new rules.
Get the huff when someone else does.
Throw toys out of pram.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Hmmm...clamping down on BB Fansites...now clamping down on non-GW models arguably intended (certainly advertised) for the game....and the PC version released, generating new interest.

Perhaps this is part of a build up to them tackling the game once more, with a full release? Take control of it back, then big fanfare when you release it once more with a full set of models.

Things appear to be stabilising sales and profits wise, so they might be looking into enhanced support for the Specialist Range?

No. There is no necessary causal relationship between protecting their IP and providing further support.

I had a box of Zendikar sitting on the shelf for the last few weeks. It was one of the first-run boxes, with possible "priceless treasures inside. I debated opening it up, or flipping it for cash.

I was sick at home yesterday, so i decided to break it open.

Given the contents of this letter it looks like not only did I make the right decision, but that even more of my money should be spent on Zendikar in the future, rather than GW.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com