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Mark Rosewater of Wizards of the Coast (Magic: the Gathering producers) had some interesting articles a while back about "spoilers" and their effects on people's impressions of and enjoyment of a new set. Magic sets release every so often with new stuff, like Codices do, and the leaks/spoilers/etc were getting so out of hand that it was possible to pull all the information together and get an entire card list with all the text and abilities of all the new cards weeks before the set's Pre-Release (a tournament where everyone got to see and play with the new cards 2 weeks before they went on sale).

Rosewater's articles said that although people actively seek out the spoilers because they're excited about the new set, WotC's research was showing them indications that full spoilers were actually having a negative impact on the sets' actual receptions. People get all the hype and cool surprises out of the way weeks before any purchasing takes place, they lack the enthusiasm of seeing brand new stuff at Pre-Releases, major new additions or mechanics are sometimes seen as bland or weak because they're seen outside the context of the set as a whole, etc. WotC runs their own slow teaser campaign of build-up and gradual information release, building up excitement to culminate in the sets' releases, and the spoilers were undermining a lot of that.

Wizards had a massive internal and external crack-down on a lot of the sources of these leaks, and managed to stymie the flow out for a while, much like with this 'Nid book. (I can't speak as to whether it's still like that or not, I've been away from the game a bit.) There was a lot of vocal opposition to practice on message boards and forums, with a lot of claims exactly like what is in this thread, about how spoilers are free advertising, the lack of them is hurting the anticipation of the release, etc. For some people, that may be true. But WotC's market research showed them that in the big picture plugging those leaks was beneficial to their brand, and increased the overall excitement level for new sets in the player base as a whole.

I wish I could find some of the articles he's written on the subject. Somewhere in Wizards' archives, I'm sure. But it really gave some insight into the fact that sometimes the moves that game companies make actually make sense, even if they seem dumb to the majority (or at least the vocal minority) of the people who see the decision from the outside.

Corrywl83 wrote:We were also not supposed to talk too far ahead of possible releases. One mind set was that if everyone was getting excited or holding back their cash for something coming out 6 months or a year from now then the newer releases would suffer.

GW is absolutely right, but their are no releases between now and January. So why keep everything on lock down when the release is only a month away?

The information we all wanted to know is now on the GW site, but my point remains valid.

One thing I've considered is...If units get toned down in the new codex, they aren't going to sell as many. I mean, if you know a unit is going to useless in the new codex, are you going to go out and buy one before the codex release? If you don't know what will happen to it and it's decent/good now you might still go out and buy one.

If something is good in the new codex, they can sell just as many after the codex is released as before, and for more $$$ as they bump the prices of the new good stuff to coincide with the codex release.

Who'd be surprised if they stop translating to keep rumors from arising?
Also, I'm sure that if anything, GW needs to "unplug the hole" if you catch my drift.
But in all seriousness, I did read the Rosewater articles, being an avid Magic player, and I did see some merit. However, in their case things will be 100% spoiled by the time the stuff hits the shelf, so all the sales rest in their ability to design a good set and how well people responded. If something wasn't spoiled, people would still attend pre-releases, which makes the company money. Then when that is all over, people begin to talk about it anyways, full spoilers arise, even Wizards posts a full spoiler. So spoilers are good imo, I'm just not sure when things should be spoiled.
Sorry for the lack of coherency, I'm rushing off to work.

sirisaacnuton wrote:Mark Rosewater of Wizards of the Coast (Magic: the Gathering producers) had some interesting articles a while back about "spoilers" and their effects on people's impressions of and enjoyment of a new set. Magic sets release every so often with new stuff, like Codices do, and the leaks/spoilers/etc were getting so out of hand that it was possible to pull all the information together and get an entire card list with all the text and abilities of all the new cards weeks before the set's Pre-Release (a tournament where everyone got to see and play with the new cards 2 weeks before they went on sale).

Rosewater's articles said that although people actively seek out the spoilers because they're excited about the new set, WotC's research was showing them indications that full spoilers were actually having a negative impact on the sets' actual receptions. People get all the hype and cool surprises out of the way weeks before any purchasing takes place, they lack the enthusiasm of seeing brand new stuff at Pre-Releases, major new additions or mechanics are sometimes seen as bland or weak because they're seen outside the context of the set as a whole, etc. WotC runs their own slow teaser campaign of build-up and gradual information release, building up excitement to culminate in the sets' releases, and the spoilers were undermining a lot of that.

Wizards had a massive internal and external crack-down on a lot of the sources of these leaks, and managed to stymie the flow out for a while, much like with this 'Nid book. (I can't speak as to whether it's still like that or not, I've been away from the game a bit.) There was a lot of vocal opposition to practice on message boards and forums, with a lot of claims exactly like what is in this thread, about how spoilers are free advertising, the lack of them is hurting the anticipation of the release, etc. For some people, that may be true. But WotC's market research showed them that in the big picture plugging those leaks was beneficial to their brand, and increased the overall excitement level for new sets in the player base as a whole.

I wish I could find some of the articles he's written on the subject. Somewhere in Wizards' archives, I'm sure. But it really gave some insight into the fact that sometimes the moves that game companies make actually make sense, even if they seem dumb to the majority (or at least the vocal minority) of the people who see the decision from the outside.

Yes, for CCG's, I agree 100%.

However, CCG's can't even be remotely compared to tabletop game, I could argue this point until I'm blue in the face, but I'll just leave it at that.

First: When I first saw this thread title, I kept seeing a "the" in between the words "plugged" and "A".

Second: Too bad I need to finish my orks and raven guard or I woudl be so buying up all these plastic bugs. But I will not break and buy more stuff until I finish painting what I have.

GG

Well, Apple tends to have everything on lockdown (heard a story on NPR today, at
least) and their stuff is highly anticipated. Don't know how it compares to toy soldiers.

oni wrote:I keep wondering if maybe GW has plugged a leaky hole. For every release we're seen for 5th edition, including 5th edition itself, we've had droves of information, concrete information, well in advance to it's release; Assault on Black Reach, Codex Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Planetstrike, Space Wolves. We had images, stats, rules... Yet here we are only a month away from the Tyranid Codex and we have only the cover art, some fuzzy pictures of a few new models and vague gossip of what we 'might' see in the codex.

So what are your thoughts, do you think GW has plugged the leaking hole(s)?

They plugged a hole like the little dutch boy.

What they do right... GW has really improved the game in the 5th edition. It is actually playable, and they trimmed the fat, so to speak whith the vague rules.

What they do wrong... In each and every codex they come out with, they will absolutly NOT learn a lesson in the whole system of making a codex, then cranking rthem out by the month up until they are absolutly unusable, counterproductive to the rulebook, and systematicly unbalenced to the game. Each one that comes out ends up being the be all end all army, and instead of just tweaking the book for players, they end up rewriting the whole game, every couple of codexs, thereby making whole segments of players armies obsolite.

Second thing they do right- Models. The models are top notch, even if sometimes unneeded, they look great. the current batch are some of the best on the market for the money. Even if the compnay is paying for too much overhead, upper management kickbacks, and excessive needless company excessives, they are worth the price of the product, based on current market price.

The last thing they do right is to make a good cup of coffee.
As long as coffee is good, they can do no wrong.

You all got it wrong.

NO NEW PRODUCT! GW IS GOING DOWN LIKE THE TITANIC!

I think that the whole "GW Mystery Box" thing had a huge impact on them. Many people speculated/knew it'd be Spehhs Hulk, and I guess they didn't like that.

malfred wrote:Well, Apple tends to have everything on lockdown (heard a story on NPR today, at
least) and their stuff is highly anticipated. Don't know how it compares to toy soldiers.

They try, but their stuff is always leaked. In fact there are entire websites completely devoted to Apple rumors. I even subscribe to ones RSS feed. MacRumors.com

oni wrote:

malfred wrote:Well, Apple tends to have everything on lockdown (heard a story on NPR today, at
least) and their stuff is highly anticipated. Don't know how it compares to toy soldiers.

They try, but their stuff is always leaked. In fact there are entire websites completely devoted to Apple rumors. I even subscribe to ones RSS feed. MacRumors.com

That's what they were talking about on NPR. A guy who blogged about leaked information
or who try to figure out what Apple wants/is developing based on factors other than
press releases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121155697

oni wrote:

Yes, for CCG's, I agree 100%.

However, CCG's can't even be remotely compared to tabletop game, I could argue this point until I'm blue in the face, but I'll just leave it at that.

One example is CCGs rules are hidden on the cards, you don't know how valuable a card is till you get it. That gives incentive to get a whole set as quickly as you can since it may take weeks for the set to be posted and taken apart.

In 40k the rules are in the codex, I don't need to buy every nid release to know how they play.

Rumors might depress sales among competative players who pick up the book to see what they are in for, or it might disillusion some players but if the product is good they should encourage sales.

Malfred beat me to the punch although I haven't heard the NPR story. Apple rumors aren't very reliable and they have been accused of seeding false rumors to plug leaks.

Apple also has sued web sites for spreading rumors (see the old USB audio breakout box as an example) and various companies, groups or individuals for copyright and trade secret leaks.

The fact that people here are talking about it works in GW's favor.

Not just this post in mind... Has anyone considered that GW has a full staff of trained employees, management and a board of directors? I would have to put a firm belief that they act in the best intrest of the company and make decisions accrodingly. They have the data, interpet it and act on it with a good understanding.

I would venture to say that a good portion (not all) of the people posting on here saying that GW is making bad moves all the time are much less informed and educated in the hobby game industry. I would also venture to say that there is a big gap in education as well.

So good job GW for being a responsible company and acting in your best intrest so that there are models to purchase and new codexs availible to the game.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

oni wrote:

Yes, for CCG's, I agree 100%.

However, CCG's can't even be remotely compared to tabletop game, I could argue this point until I'm blue in the face, but I'll just leave it at that.

One example is CCGs rules are hidden on the cards, you don't know how valuable a card is till you get it. That gives incentive to get a whole set as quickly as you can since it may take weeks for the set to be posted and taken apart.

In 40k the rules are in the codex, I don't need to buy every nid release to know how they play.

Rumors might depress sales among competative players who pick up the book to see what they are in for, or it might disillusion some players but if the product is good they should encourage sales.

I agree completely. You cannot compare a tabletop game to a card game like magic. Theres a huge difference from buying a $50 model with very little resale value compared to a $110 box of magic cards from a new set that you could probably sell the cards back and get a small profit.... people in tabletop gaming hate wasting money, and leaks help us prevent that. People will still buy the "crappy" models to play, but honestly, pre-releasing info won't hurt sales as much as they think they will. Hell, if I'd known more about the new 'Nids I might have been inclined not to sell mine off... but due to little, or no, info, I decided to bail on em and build up my dark eldar.

oni wrote:do you think GW has plugged the leaking hole(s)?

I had a leaking hole once, the doc told me to get it plugged ASAP.

They definitely "plugged a hole" when they failed to return the models me and a whole bunch of other loyal customers built and painted for them for Games Day 2009 and then also failed to apologize or offer anything else in the way of an apology.

On the topic of plugging leaks rather than shafting customers, actually there have been very few leaks for most recent releases now for several months. Space Wolves and Skaven did not have significant leaks ahead of time, only the pictures GW released when they wanted to officially release them and Tyranids has been even tighter.

@BrassScorpion: I might be mistaken, since I am fairly new to the hobby, but I thought that Space Wolves had a decent amount of rumors before release. It might have been less than what more veteran players are used to, but I personally thought there was a good amount of rumors, and more hype than the current Tyranids bit.
@hyperviper: I have no doubt that the people at GW have their own plan and act according to what they believe works, but people will always complain because everybody likes what is convenient for them. Is it wrong, no, but things like more rumors are justified both by those who plug holes and those who want those holes to pour forth with goodness.

Leaks of pictures of completed models and book contents used to be months or more ahead of releases, sometimes in near full detail. None of the early info in recent months has been anywhere near that level either in how far ahead it leaked out or in amount. While rumors on rules always circulate ahead of time, nothing we've had of late approaches the full Codex leaks of a year or so ago and we had virtually no leaked pics of model releases during the past few months, making those emailed pics from GW apparently as exciting to the community as GW would like them to be.

I'm rather suspicious about so called "leaks". Many companies put them out there deliberately to test the water and use them as advertising. If that's what GW were doing and they decided that it wasn't benefiting their business model them of course they would "plug the leak", or in real terms simply stop doing it.

I could never understand why GW couln't at least give an overview of what was going to happen in the up and coming year, with a disclaimer that dates can change. It gives people something to look forward to, without giving too much of anything away.

My personal theory is that GW are absolutely piss scared of the internet. They really don't have a clue how to handle it and leverage instant global, free-access communication to their advantage. They are a company still operating in the world of the 1980s, where retail space and paper magazines were the best ways of doing everything.

As they don't understand the internet and believe it is full of nasty, evil sods who are out to kill them they have totally withdrawn from it other than to operate their Web 1.0 Direct Sales site as they are total control freaks who wet themselves everytime someone burps nasty words in their general direction.

To that end, I don't believe this is a positive move by them, just an attempt to totally withdraw from the internet as a means of generating commercial interest, as they have realised they don't have the first clue how to utilise it properly.

Of course, if they woke up, smelled the coffee, and realised that dynamic, modern, growing businesses aren't afraid when the internet starts talking about them, but instead embrace and acknowledge "the cloud", then they may actually stand a chance of surviving the second decade of the 21st century. As things stand, their "turtling" will only serve to drive a greater wedge between them and their potential customers, and continue to throttle their business model which is strongly based around outdated processes.

*covers crystal ball, and takes off shawl*

Now, cross my palm with silver!

malfred wrote:Well, Apple tends to have everything on lockdown (heard a story on NPR today, at
least) and their stuff is highly anticipated. Don't know how it compares to toy soldiers.

Apple tries to be very secretive and (like GW of late) it has bitten them on the rear more than once. As always, it's risky to alienate your hard core fans, and people that interested in discussing rumors are probably hardcore fans. They've reached a point now where there seems to be so much misinformation that the rumor sites are not too reliable these days. They've clamped down onf actories and subcontractors pretty heavily, too.

Apple has also been concerned with the 'Osborne Effect' in that if they say a Brand New, Better, Cooler X is coming, no one will buy the current X. There's a bit of this for wargames, sure, but there's less 'investment' in general.

GW and Apple fans will buy most stuff whether they get it from a rumor or see it on the shelf.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:]One example is CCGs rules are hidden on the cards, you don't know how valuable a card is till you get it. That gives incentive to get a whole set as quickly as you can since it may take weeks for the set to be posted and taken apart.

Doesn't WotC still post a list of every card in upcoming sets weeks before the release?

What kind of "leaks" are you looking for anyways? Codex details? Cause last I checked we had some decent information about the 'nids...

Imagine how much hype GW could create if they gave little snippets on the road to completion for each project. It could easily be done without actually giving away classified information. Picture if you will, a post on the GW blog What's New Today... "Sculptor Jim's WIP Tyrant Guard Green" The post then showcases a green of the new guard. In the following month, another post... "Talks of a Brand New Tyranid Monstrous Creature" The post then discusses the thought process behind adding a new, but unknown monstrous creature. Something as simple as this would create such a buzz of excitement it would be thunderous. The 'rumors' would be concrete, controlled, would give fans that taste of what's to come that we all desire, and if done appropriately would not reveal information that's to be kept classified.

oni wrote:Imagine how much hype GW could create if they gave little snippets on the road to completion for each project. It could easily be done without actually giving away classified information. Picture if you will, a post on the GW blog What's New Today... "Sculptor Jim's WIP Tyrant Guard Green" The post then showcases a green of the new guard. In the following month, another post... "Talks of a Brand New Tyranid Monstrous Creature" The post then discusses the thought process behind adding a new, but unknown monstrous creature. Something as simple as this would create such a buzz of excitement it would be thunderous. The 'rumors' would be concrete, controlled, would give fans that taste of what's to come that we all desire, and if done appropriately would not reveal information that's to be kept classified.

You, sir, make entirely too much sense; which is probably why you don't work for GW.

hyperviper6 wrote:Not just this post in mind... Has anyone considered that GW has a full staff of trained employees, management and a board of directors? I would have to put a firm belief that they act in the best intrest of the company and make decisions accrodingly. They have the data, interpet it and act on it with a good understanding.

I would venture to say that a good portion (not all) of the people posting on here saying that GW is making bad moves all the time are much less informed and educated in the hobby game industry. I would also venture to say that there is a big gap in education as well.

So good job GW for being a responsible company and acting in your best intrest so that there are models to purchase and new codexs availible to the game.

GM had the same. That turned out just fine.

Again, if you hang out at a GW store this is no big deal. If your primary store is a FLGS you might not even know there's a new Nid release or not get buzzed about it. When 40K is just one more shelf on the store you'd better do better than think you have automatic marketing.