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oni wrote:Imagine how much hype GW could create if they gave little snippets on the road to completion for each project. It could easily be done without actually giving away classified information. Picture if you will, a post on the GW blog What's New Today... "Sculptor Jim's WIP Tyrant Guard Green" The post then showcases a green of the new guard. In the following month, another post... "Talks of a Brand New Tyranid Monstrous Creature" The post then discusses the thought process behind adding a new, but unknown monstrous creature. Something as simple as this would create such a buzz of excitement it would be thunderous. The 'rumors' would be concrete, controlled, would give fans that taste of what's to come that we all desire, and if done appropriately would not reveal information that's to be kept classified.

To play devil's advocate:

The downside is people woulds top buying old versions when a new version is first leaked/announced. Pics of a new Genestealer sprue leaked? Why buy the old ones? (Unless the new ones are really awful looking, of course.)

Also, time doing designer blogs/taking WIP pics is time not actually writing and sculpting.

It's not a bad idea, but it does have some issues. Neither solution is perfect.

Balance wrote:

Also, time doing designer blogs/taking WIP pics is time not actually writing and sculpting.

It's not a bad idea, but it does have some issues. Neither solution is perfect.

They already do it on the GW website with the "new today" thing which they usually use to show off staff armies and so on. Also, it'd be a bigger sale for white dwarf if they had a "rumors" section; maybe more people would pay for it if it had pre-release information.

Balance wrote:

oni wrote:Imagine how much hype GW could create if they gave little snippets on the road to completion for each project. It could easily be done without actually giving away classified information. Picture if you will, a post on the GW blog What's New Today... "Sculptor Jim's WIP Tyrant Guard Green" The post then showcases a green of the new guard. In the following month, another post... "Talks of a Brand New Tyranid Monstrous Creature" The post then discusses the thought process behind adding a new, but unknown monstrous creature. Something as simple as this would create such a buzz of excitement it would be thunderous. The 'rumors' would be concrete, controlled, would give fans that taste of what's to come that we all desire, and if done appropriately would not reveal information that's to be kept classified.

To play devil's advocate:

The downside is people woulds top buying old versions when a new version is first leaked/announced. Pics of a new Genestealer sprue leaked? Why buy the old ones? (Unless the new ones are really awful looking, of course.)

Also, time doing designer blogs/taking WIP pics is time not actually writing and sculpting.

It's not a bad idea, but it does have some issues. Neither solution is perfect.

You're absolutely right, it would discourage the purchase of older models, but only if they showcased models that are being reworked. The Hive Guard is new (sorry, I mentioned the wrong model above.) and you can't discourage the purchasing of a model if it doesn't exist.

And as agnosto stated, GW already has a blog that they put time into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:it'd be a bigger sale for white dwarf if they had a "rumors" section; maybe more people would pay for it if it had pre-release information.

Brilliant!

The downside is people woulds top buying old versions when a new version is first leaked/announced.

This is one of the main reasons GW dislikes leaks too far ahead of time. It causes flat sales on related products, which is not good for GW or the local game store struggling to stay afloat. It can also irrationally rob a prospective player of enjoying the army they'd like to play. If someone puts off buying the models they like because someone tells them there's a rumor those models are being revised, only to then discover the rumor wasn't true or that the revision is many months or even years away, then such a rumor hasn't done anyone any good.

Well, I know personally, if I know an army is coming out in the near future, I'm not buying any models for it at all because of the way GW yo-yo's on the rules.

skyth wrote:Well, I know personally, if I know an army is coming out in the near future, I'm not buying any models for it at all because of the way GW yo-yo's on the rules.

Exactly, so if they were more forthcoming regarding what was or wasn't being reworked then people who would be more inclined to "wait and see" wouldn't hesitate to at least buy those figs that weren't being replaced.

Well, my reason is not just because it might be reworked, but also because it might not be usable at all in the new codex/army.

skyth wrote:Well, my reason is not just because it might be reworked, but also because it might not be usable at all in the new codex/army.

In which case they should do the right thing and stop selling it. If they had half a brain they can always find a way to keep old units in the game, make them fit in a new codex; planned obsolesence just makes me mad.

planned obsolesence just makes me mad.

Right on, man. While this problem is a lot less severe than it was in earlier days, it is still a bit of a nuisance here and there with each revision. Though whole units or model types rarely go obsolete these days, there is occasionally a rules alteration that makes them seem obsolete (e.g., Chaos Marine Possessed in the 200 Codex).

This all reminds me of my adventures with Blood Angels. In 3rd ed my main army was Salamander Space Marines. When I saw the 4th ed rules for them I said there was no way I was playing them. I still had a small force worth of unbuilt, unpainted marine parts, so I decided to start a second small marine force. I wanted one that had dedicated bits and chose BAs over SWs (which looking back on it would have been so much easier). I did a few test models, acquired some specialized parts, and then built, converted and painted my first squad. Then rumors of the WD list started to appear and I put the project on the shelf. After it dropped, I moved on to a couple small models before the 5th ed rumors started to really heat up. On the shelf again. Recently I moved back to paint up a Predator only to hear about the BA Codex and models coming sometime next year. Back on the shelf most likely again.

Niccolo wrote:This all reminds me of my adventures with Blood Angels. In 3rd ed my main army was Salamander Space Marines. When I saw the 4th ed rules for them I said there was no way I was playing them. I still had a small force worth of unbuilt, unpainted marine parts, so I decided to start a second small marine force. I wanted one that had dedicated bits and chose BAs over SWs (which looking back on it would have been so much easier). I did a few test models, acquired some specialized parts, and then built, converted and painted my first squad. Then rumors of the WD list started to appear and I put the project on the shelf. After it dropped, I moved on to a couple small models before the 5th ed rumors started to really heat up. On the shelf again. Recently I moved back to paint up a Predator only to hear about the BA Codex and models coming sometime next year. Back on the shelf most likely again.

OK, but why? It's completely unnecessary. If you really want to play Blood Angels then you shouldn't have anything holding you back.

I just assembled a 2000 point Tyranid army and I built it going off the current codex knowing full well a new one was coming. I have no clue what the new codex has in store, but I didn't let it stop me.

http://pitoftheoni.blogspot.com/2009/12/tyranid-force.html

Mick A wrote:I think its a bad move by GW. I have no real interest in the new nid codex,this is the first time I've felt this way about a new codex release...

Imagine if film companies did the same, would you bother going to see a film if before its release all you had seen was the poster and heard a few rumours what it might be about, no clips, nothing?

It might of worked with Space Hulk but that was a one off special release, big failure GW...

Mick

For me knowing 99% of Codex IG made me go "ho hum" on the day of release. I mean I could write a legal list from everything I knew and was pretty spot on regarding points. So for me knowing things too far out is just the opposite.

That's silly Fateweaver. This isn't a movie or television show. You're not 'spoiling' the Codex. It's a rulebook FFS.

GW needs to use it's monthly magazine - you know, the one we all hate because there's no content - to preview upcoming Codices months in advance. I'm not talking release dates - they are elastic and it is quite necessary to not commit to them lest you anger a lot of people if something goes wrong (Tyranid Codex anyone?) - I'm talking previews of upcoming models, painting guides, battle reports, tactics articles and so on. Get everyone geared up and ready to go come the release date - purchase plans in hand, pre-orders already in, and with a wealth of helpful published material to get them going.

If WD was used to advertise upcoming products in a productive manner, then it would be worthwhile.

At the moment WD has very little direction,
Gosh, I look for reasons to buy it, if there are 3 things (TOTAL) that I would like I buy, that's been 3 times in the last 2 years.

As for previewing,
they used to do it all the time,
it kinda worked (at least for the people I knew that were in the hobby), but now no-one even cares as you find more out on this site than in WD in 30 minutes!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:That's silly Fateweaver. This isn't a movie or television show. You're not 'spoiling' the Codex. It's a rulebook FFS.

GW needs to use it's monthly magazine - you know, the one we all hate because there's no content - to preview upcoming Codices months in advance. I'm not talking release dates - they are elastic and it is quite necessary to not commit to them lest you anger a lot of people if something goes wrong (Tyranid Codex anyone?) - I'm talking previews of upcoming models, painting guides, battle reports, tactics articles and so on. Get everyone geared up and ready to go come the release date - purchase plans in hand, pre-orders already in, and with a wealth of helpful published material to get them going.

If WD was used to advertise upcoming products in a productive manner, then it would be worthwhile.

My point was the only reason I bough it was for a legal copy. Honestly when it arrived in the mail I didn't even crack it open until 3 days later when I had to use it. I already knew 99% of everything in it from people taking snapshots of the .pdf with iphone cameras and/or dictating into micro-recorders/phones/pda's everything word for word. I don't mind only knowing part of a codex upon release day. It makes me actually want to read it front to back, ponder over army lists and digest the fluff.

Different strokes for different folks but I prefer little surprises in my life, even if it's only something as minute and geeky as an army book for little plastic aliens/men/whatevers...

Commander Endova wrote:Which of course, isn't a good move on GW's part. The playerbase wants to actually know whats coming out. It's not like the videogame industry. You can't torrent a sprue of 'guants. I can't fathom what they gain by being so secretive.

If they did tell us well in advance, it might serve as a form of advertising. Personally, if I was given a timeframe for upcoming releases, I'd set aside a budget so I could buy the models i wanted as soon as they came out.

Yes, you would buy the models you wanted. The models that had been reviewed, analyzed, and math hammered by the entire internet to find out what is a must, and what is crap.

They want you to buy that crap before the math hammer wizards get to it.

If you Don't want to know all the stuff in the Codex before it comes out, Don't Read The Rumor Threads. Me? I'm only Just Now starting to get excited about `Nids now that the new pictures are out and better rumors about what's in the book are spreading. Before this, I kept forgetting they were coming out, as there was pretty much nothing out there, and I was the one who started the first thread saying February!

Maybe we really should put spoiler tags in rumour threads???




No I'm not being serious.

Balance wrote:

oni wrote:Imagine how much hype GW could create if they gave little snippets on the road to completion for each project. It could easily be done without actually giving away classified information. Picture if you will, a post on the GW blog What's New Today... "Sculptor Jim's WIP Tyrant Guard Green" The post then showcases a green of the new guard. In the following month, another post... "Talks of a Brand New Tyranid Monstrous Creature" The post then discusses the thought process behind adding a new, but unknown monstrous creature. Something as simple as this would create such a buzz of excitement it would be thunderous. The 'rumors' would be concrete, controlled, would give fans that taste of what's to come that we all desire, and if done appropriately would not reveal information that's to be kept classified.

To play devil's advocate:

The downside is people woulds top buying old versions when a new version is first leaked/announced. Pics of a new Genestealer sprue leaked? Why buy the old ones? (Unless the new ones are really awful looking, of course.)

Also, time doing designer blogs/taking WIP pics is time not actually writing and sculpting.

It's not a bad idea, but it does have some issues. Neither solution is perfect.

You're absolutely right, in the place of the old ones being sold, the new ones will be bought in their place.

The problem here is?

Either way, one of the versions aren't going to be purchased. If I spend $30 on the old Genestealers and I find out new ones are being made, I'm going to be pissed. I'm also not going to fork out another $30 for the new ones.

Balance wrote:The downside is people woulds top buying old versions when a new version is first leaked/announced. Pics of a new Genestealer sprue leaked? Why buy the old ones? (Unless the new ones are really awful looking, of course.)

Which does happen of course, like with the Daemonettes. They probably wouldn't like a surge in buying a product about to be replaced because it undermines confidence in the quality of the the new product and removes sales from it. As with most companies, everything GW do has to be seen as an improvement and a better service even when it isn't so they aren't going to want to draw attention to it.

Another point: all input from or for GW products comes 'inhouse' and is bias because of it. yes ok gw is usually compitant enough to know a good sell from bad, but i think alot of people would just go with the flow rather than voicing a honest oppinion if they worked there. (lets not forget, GW is a bit (abit like 20 tonnes of heavey things) hard on its employees.) So secretsy again hurt them if everyone in the company is so excited for a product and then when its released they have only lack luster profit.

Hawkins wrote:
Another point: all input from or for GW products comes 'inhouse' and is bias because of it. yes ok gw is usually compitant enough to know a good sell from bad, but i think alot of people would just go with the flow rather than voicing a honest oppinion if they worked there. (lets not forget, GW is a bit (abit like 20 tonnes of heavey things) hard on its employees.) So secretsy again hurt them if everyone in the company is so excited for a product and then when its released they have only lack luster profit.

There are other reason that prevent them revealing their intentions too far in advance. I do recall them describing a future release of a "Necron flying tank" in White Dwarf long ago before the Necrons got their current make over in plastic and the whole idea of tanks were dropped in favour of the more unusual Monolith. Well that never materialised for some reason. I'm not sure why, I do recall asking and I think they may have been an accident to something being made, or the person working on it, or that the person doing it left the company. I don't know it's a long time ago but mention of the release so early in the design process did get people's hopes up unnecessarily.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that timing is key.

I'm going speak generally...
Too much secrecy can be just as damaging as being too out in the open. Toss up an idea and some may grasp onto it, but then if that idea gets gak canned for whatever reason consumers may be disappointed.
Keep everything on lock down and consumers are blindsided with new product they were not anticipating.
Truth is a lot of hobbyists budget for the things they want. Let them know well in advance something is coming and they put it in the budget. Drop it on them out of thin air and initial sales are low.

Let's explore another concept of 'the budget'. Fact - Not many of us can afford to go out and buy whatever our heart desires on a whim. However, occasionally a product comes along that we deem a must-have, but it wasn't in the budget. Why wasn't it in the budget? Because we were sucker punched in the face with it... "Holy gak, where did this come from?" So what do we do? We make compromises. "Well, I can forget buying this, that and the other thing so I can buy this new thing(s) that came out of no where."

In either case there is something not being purchased. There's just no way around it. Something will not be purchased. Whether it's old stock because consumers know something new is coming or the new product because no one knew it was coming, or even something different all together because we had to make a compromise in order to purchase the new product. It's choosing the lesser of the evils.

IMO... The lesser of the evils is quite obvious. Let old stock take the hit. Why? Because it's old and it damages consumer confidence. If someone buys a product and then two weeks later a better version is released that they had no idea was coming, they're not going to pleased. The consumer will not only be displeased with the company, but also their purchase because it was so quickly outdated.
There's a simple solution to old stock as well. Sell it at a discount. It's not going to affect sales of the new product much, if at all. Consumers mostly want the newest and most current iteration of a product.

That's enough typing for now...

oni wrote:One thing I think we can all agree on is that timing is key.

I'm going speak generally...
Too much secrecy can be just as damaging as being too out in the open. Toss up an idea and some may grasp onto it, but then if that idea gets gak canned for whatever reason consumers may be disappointed.
Keep everything on lock down and consumers are blindsided with new product they were not anticipating.
Truth is a lot of hobbyists budget for the things they want. Let them know well in advance something is coming and they put it in the budget. Drop it on them out of thin air and initial sales are low.

Let's explore another concept of 'the budget'. Fact - Not many of us can afford to go out and buy whatever our heart desires on a whim. However, occasionally a product comes along that we deem a must-have, but it wasn't in the budget. Why wasn't it in the budget? Because we were sucker punched in the face with it... "Holy gak, where did this come from?" So what do we do? We make compromises. "Well, I can forget buying this, that and the other thing so I can buy this new thing(s) that came out of no where."

In either case there is something not being purchased. There's just no way around it. Something will not be purchased. Whether it's old stock because consumers know something new is coming or the new product because no one knew it was coming, or even something different all together because we had to make a compromise in order to purchase the new product. It's choosing the lesser of the evils.

IMO... The lesser of the evils is quite obvious. Let old stock take the hit. Why? Because it's old and it damages consumer confidence. If someone buys a product and then two weeks later a better version is released that they had no idea was coming, they're not going to pleased. The consumer will not only be displeased with the company, but also their purchase because it was so quickly outdated.
There's a simple solution to old stock as well. Sell it at a discount. It's not going to affect sales of the new product much, if at all. Consumers mostly want the newest and most current iteration of a product.

That's enough typing for now...

You see, the problem with you is that you're making entirely too much sense and actually thought about what you typed. Both of these items point to the fact that you are not a true gamer and therefor must be kicked in the pants. Prepare to be kicked in the pants.