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Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Is there any chance that someone in your country could discuss this issue in a rational manner? Not so much Americans on Dakka, just people who hold jobs in the media or government.

Not while the GOP still exists in it's current form.

I guess you missed that whole (D) following Harry Reid President of the Senate thing.

One idiot democrat vs an entire political party. Which one is easier to ignore?

I'm not surprised at all. The dems are typically weak and have a hard time forming a coherent argument when they are opposed. Rather than actually engage in debate or look at the merits of something, they just call people and groups names. It makes them intellectually weak and their ideas weaker and less reasoned, but it makes them feel good. I see many conservatives (and their ideas) are attacked daily, in the media/acadmemia. I remember the "Republican Revolution" of 94 reporters demanded evidence that the welfare state was a failed experiment and was actually doing damage. Newt came in the next day with a mound of evidence proving his point. At the same time, the libs were screaming that children were going to starve because the republican congress was raising federal school lunch money by 4.2% instead of 4.5% (or something close) and they never once asked for any evidence. It was around this time that I realized exactly how bad the main stream media was.

That's why things like being called a racist aren't as important now. It seems like the only qualification for being labeled a racist is you don't agree with the liberals. As for the nazi term, everyone throws that around, and half the people don't even understand it, they just know nazis were bad people who it is okay not to like. There is a lot of facism out there (not nazism IMO), but it is usually counterproductive to point that out. It's better to just go about fighting it in a different way.

I know these are blanket statements and the world is not that simple. I know there is a democrat out there who goes against everything I just typed, as well as a conservatives that fit the lib profile. I was making generalities about the politicians/leaders of these movements.

BTW, I do not consider muself a republican, I just know how antagonistically they are treated by the media and others and I think it ultimately makes them stronger and their ideas more reasoned and based on something other than good intentions/wishful thinking.

Maybe you missed the part where the Republicans won the use of political language years ago. They made the word Liberal a slur. They compare Democrats to socialists, communists, anything anti-american, terrorist lovers, Nazis, etc.

The Republicans must be telling the truth, they're wrapped in flags.


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BTW Reid is a moron and I hope he loses his senate seat.

*munches popcorn*

Politics is such spectator sport.

Just gotta remember to stay far enough back to avoid the mud being flung about...

Its not mud.

Dorns Fist wrote:There is a lot of facism out there (not nazism IMO), but it is usually counterproductive to point that out. It's better to just go about fighting it in a different way.

Where is all this fascism? The Tea Party Movement has some of the raging nationalism that is one of the hallmarks of fascism, but is not itself a fascist organization.

Dorns Fist wrote:
BTW, I do not consider muself a republican, I just know how antagonistically they are treated by the media and others and I think it ultimately makes them stronger and their ideas more reasoned and based on something other than good intentions/wishful thinking.

What Republican Party have you been watching? Their relationship with the defense budget, and the military in general, is every bit as ridiculous as the Democrat's relationship with entitlements. And let's not forget the wonders of Reaganomics.

From the distance I'm standing at, it sure *looks* like mud that the monkeys are flinging...

IMO it's a good idea.

http://www.racialicious.com/

or

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/hathos-alert-1.html


Calling people racist has been one of the main ways libs use to attack people who disagree with them. I think being called a racist doesn't really mean anything anymore, unless there is something actually to it. At first it was an effective way to silence/marginalize your opponent. Now it is just laughable. I think this commercial makes the point well.

I'll post more later, but I saw this and had to laugh and share it.

Link broke due to Dakka's auto-censor.

Thanks!!

I corrected it.

I should have tried it when I posted it.

Live and Learn!

dogma wrote:Cane's willful ignorance? I thought he pretty well summarized the progression of crazy rhetoric surrounding health care. The Democrats have, for the most part, avoided the mudslinging game.

Really? Really? I find such sentiments laughable. Dogma, you are an incredibly smart person, but how can you consider yourself informed and say something like that? Do we so easily forget the Nancy Pelosi statement referring to all those protesters as Nazi and un-American, and she wasn't the only Democrat to say things like that. I don't have the time or the will to compile a list, but if you think that the Dems have avoided mudslinging then you are dead wrong. I am not defending the Republicans, as I can't stand most of them either, I was merely pointing out the thread's original criticism was directed at that bumbling idiot Sen. Harry Reid, and everyone blames the Republicans. Gak like that pisses me off. I don't appreciate it when people are more then willing to trash one side, but when their side feth's up, they just ignore it. Hence, willful ignorance.


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ShumaGorath wrote:One idiot democrat vs an entire political party. Which one is easier to ignore?

Well that idiot does happen to be the leader of the Senate...so that is pretty stupid to ignore.

JEB_Stuart wrote:I am not defending the Republicans, as I can't stand most of them either, I was merely pointing out the thread's original criticism was directed at that bumbling idiot Sen. Harry Reid, and everyone blames the Republicans. Gak like that pisses me off. I don't appreciate it when people are more then willing to trash one side, but when their side feth's up, they just ignore it. Hence, willful ignorance.

You assume that all who have commented, are democrats (or at least see themselves as such); thus their comments are based on the protection of their party.

Anyway, it is not a matter of ignoring anything, it is a matter of what happened, and who said it. I cannot recall someone defending Reid, and your 'demand' for them to 'be fair', is simply silly. If you compile all of the comments made by both sides (or just honestly watch the news from the past few months), it is crystal clear who was throwing hits below the belt. This does not assume that the Dems have not done anything wrong, just that they have not taken the same stance as the Reps.

I can think of at least a dozen comments from the GOP that were utterly ludicrous and uncalled for; two to tango? No... not really at all... have a cookie.

And I acknowledged my own disgust with those comments. I don't understand why this excuses Sen. Reid, Rep. Pelosi, etc from any of their comments. Can you tell me why?

JEB_Stuart wrote:.....the GOP is the party that ended slavery.

Lincoln's party greatly expanded federal powers and spending as well as a progressive social policy.

Yep, sounds like the GOP today....



Oh wait, it doesn't.

At all.

FAIL.

So ignore real history? And yes the GOP did expanding Federal gov powers, or have you never heard of the PATRIOT Act, or the Department of Homeland Security, etc. Oh and lets not forget increased government spending under the Republicans. Nice flame bait troll.

Edited to avoid Modquisition....

JEB_Stuart wrote:Really? Really? I find such sentiments laughable. Dogma, you are an incredibly smart person, but how can you consider yourself informed and say something like that? Do we so easily forget the Nancy Pelosi statement referring to all those protesters as Nazi and un-American, and she wasn't the only Democrat to say things like that. I don't have the time or the will to compile a list, but if you think that the Dems have avoided mudslinging then you are dead wrong.

I was making a comment about relativity. That was the point of qualifying my statement with "for the most part". I suppose I could have simply said that, when compared to Republican efforts, the Democrat mudslinging seems insignificant. Sarah Palin alone contributed more mud to the debate than the entire Democratic Party.

JEB_Stuart wrote:
I am not defending the Republicans, as I can't stand most of them either, I was merely pointing out the thread's original criticism was directed at that bumbling idiot Sen. Harry Reid, and everyone blames the Republicans. Gak like that pisses me off. I don't appreciate it when people are more then willing to trash one side, but when their side feth's up, they just ignore it. Hence, willful ignorance.

I don't anyone is blaming the Republicans, except Shuma. It seems more like the general sentiment is one of resignation.

"Well, now everyone is down to mudslinging. At least we're all on the same page."

ShumaGorath wrote:Not while the GOP still exists in it's current form.

The GOP's effort to debate healthcare has been dreadful, but Reid is a grown man and a leader of the Democratic Party... he's responsible for his comments and deserves to be criticised for what's he's said.

Carter's comment about Joe Wilson were difficult to categorise because while likely true, it didn't advance the Democrat position and ultimately only served to fuel the right wing persecution complex. Reid's comment will feed their persecution complex just as much, but doesn't have the benefit of being true, or even remotely useful as an analogy.

Dorns Fist wrote:That's why things like being called a racist aren't as important now. It seems like the only qualification for being labeled a racist is you don't agree with the liberals. As for the nazi term, everyone throws that around, and half the people don't even understand it, they just know nazis were bad people who it is okay not to like. There is a lot of facism out there (not nazism IMO), but it is usually counterproductive to point that out. It's better to just go about fighting it in a different way.

Just as tip, if you're going to spend a paragraph talking about how you perceive the political environment so much more clearly than others, you should spell 'fascism' correctly.

dogma wrote:I was making a comment about relativity

Sorry, I really didn't catch that.

dogma wrote:That was the point of qualifying my statement with "for the most part". I suppose I could have simply said that, when compared to Republican efforts, the Democrat mudslinging seems insignificant. Sarah Palin alone contributed more mud to the debate than the entire Democratic Party.

See, when someone says "for the most part" I take it as referring to the leadership and well known voices of the party. I still disagree that the Dems efforts have been insignificant, but of course the Republicans are going to do more, they are in the opposition, the Dems did the same thing when they were in the same position.

dogma wrote:I don't anyone is blaming the Republicans, except Shuma. It seems more like the general sentiment is one of resignation.

That may or may not be true...except for the part about Shuma, that is definitely true

dogma wrote:"Well, now everyone is down to mudslinging. At least we're all on the same page."

I'm down with that.

sebster wrote:The GOP's effort to debate healthcare has been dreadful, but Reid is a grown man and a leader of the Democratic Party... he's responsible for his comments and deserves to be criticised for what's he's said.

And sebster wins the thread.

I like where this is going. Please continue.

Is it time for a European poster to come in and make sweeping statements about how great state healthcare is, and imply that all americans are morons yet?
That's my favourite part in these threads.

I gotta say, the sheer ludicrousness of mudslinging in american politics makes it highly amusing to watch. Our own lot are much more placid. Maybe we should start spiking the tea in the Dáil with cocaine or something.

Da Boss wrote:I gotta say, the sheer ludicrousness of mudslinging in american politics makes it highly amusing to watch. Our own lot are much more placid

It might be because we have more than 2 parties, thus some actual politics has to take place rather than just dragging the other team through the mud and blaming them for everything.

Da Boss wrote:Is it time for a European poster to come in and make sweeping statements about how great state healthcare is, and imply that all americans are morons yet?
That's my favourite part in these threads.

I gotta say, the sheer ludicrousness of mudslinging in american politics makes it highly amusing to watch. Our own lot are much more placid. Maybe we should start spiking the tea in the Dáil with cocaine or something.

No need to draw lines in the sand for people to jump on either side of.

Aww but I like the lines. They're pretty and symetrical.

Anyway, guns are pretty cool, and we are a BIT communist. Let's be honest here.

Ketara wrote:No need to draw lines in the sand for people to jump on either side of.

Though perhaps drawing a nice little box for politicians to sit and have some "quiet time" in before they can go back to debate sensibly like adults would be a good idea.

It is times like these I stop believing in democracy. But honsetly How can i draw any parralel to slave supporters. It makes no sense especially when it was the republicans that helped freed the slaves.

Am I the only person that read what Reid said and actually saw a parrallel to the current debate?

The analogy is that in both the current health care debates, and earlier civil rights and slavery debates, the opposition essentially relied on a "let's not move too fast" type argument. History has more or less vindicated those movements, along with admittedly better examples (the ADA, the clean water act, etc.).

If you actually read his comments, it was that history has not judged kindly those that put their own economic interests before social progress. Now, it was either a misstep or an intentionally thrown elbow, but his actual statement is actually sort of correct.

JEB_Stuart wrote:

dogma wrote:Cane's willful ignorance? I thought he pretty well summarized the progression of crazy rhetoric surrounding health care. The Democrats have, for the most part, avoided the mudslinging game.

Really? Really? I find such sentiments laughable. Dogma, you are an incredibly smart person, but how can you consider yourself informed and say something like that? Do we so easily forget the Nancy Pelosi statement referring to all those protesters as Nazi and un-American, and she wasn't the only Democrat to say things like that. I don't have the time or the will to compile a list, but if you think that the Dems have avoided mudslinging then you are dead wrong. I am not defending the Republicans, as I can't stand most of them either, I was merely pointing out the thread's original criticism was directed at that bumbling idiot Sen. Harry Reid, and everyone blames the Republicans. Gak like that pisses me off. I don't appreciate it when people are more then willing to trash one side, but when their side feth's up, they just ignore it. Hence, willful ignorance.

You're the one being willfully ignorant if you think the Repubs aren't the primary mud flingers throughout the health care debacle especially in the realm of crazy headlines. Hell that was a criticism even the likes of Jon Stewart and other lefties brought up including the infamous Bill Maher: the Dems have been playing the debate too soft while letting the Repubs win the crazy headlines through intentional misinformation and overall craziness. See: Sarah Palin, Faux News, YOU LIE, etc. It got to the point where Obama and other White House officials had to speak out in order to dismiss the looney bin stuff that the GOP brought onto the table.

It wasn't until this guy that the Dems started to act as low as the Repubs in the health care "debate":




Willful ignorance, bah humbug. More like its you're the one in denial of the GOP's actions these past few months aka "willful ignorance" with a pinch of trolling to the mix.

Democracy is like a hand job from a stranger. Exciting and kind of fun, but ultimately meaningless.

Opinions posted on the Internet are tales told by idiots; full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing.

/durrrr

Somnicide wrote:Alexander Hamilton will destroy the nation! Politics is always the same. You compare your foes to the worst thing you can imagine and when it happens to you then you go and cry that they are being mean and making that horrible thing less horrible by comparing you to that horrible thing when you aren't really. Rinse, repeat, rake in cash.

I can imagine a lot. I can imagine zombie crab people with HP calculators and gummy bears. This future is more horrible and the Terminator Salvation thread. I clearly picked a bad week to quit sniffing glue.


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Polonius wrote:Am I the only person that read what Reid said and actually saw a parrallel to the current debate?

Yea actually.