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Beacuse most people start playing when they are young, there is an obvious apeal to 40K. I mean who didn't want to be a space man when they were young? Better yet, a space man that is really tough and carries a huge gun. It also has CC, so they old sword fighting fantasy is not eshewed. Basicaly it involves more child appealing power. Also beacuse fantasy is very presices, all those blocks of models are not as cool looking as hoards of spread out models.

I thought Fantasy was more popular, but 40k is more forgiving and appealing to younger players. I just started fantasy a month ago, and have only played one game, it's a lot more focused on movement and planing ahead

riplikash wrote:For me I was initially attracted to Fantasy because of its model, formation combat, and my love of high fantasy.

But once you start delving into the fluff, fantasy could be any of a thousand other fantasy worlds and there would be no different. It is rather dry. It is just like every other fantasy world. There just isn't a lot of magic there.

40k has a vibrant enthusiasm to the fluff I have never encountered in other fiction. It is silly, dark, gritty, funny, and over the top while still managing to take itself seriously, and get me to suspend my disbelief.

Space elves? Orks with cars that go faster because they paint them red, and guns that work because they think they should? 8ft super humans who spit acid, drink poison, sleep with one eye open, and fire rocket propelled armor piercing fully automatic grenade launchers, wielding chainswords, against an army of tyranidswho devoured all life in the universe and are rising up to do it again and say "I'll be back" (yes i know they don't actually say it) as they RISE FROM THE FRIGGIN GRAVE TO SHOOT GUNS THAT FLAW FLESH ONE MOLECULE AT A TIME IN A DUNGEON TOMB BENEATH AN OPPRESIVE HIVE CITY, AND WE BETTER WIN OR THEY WILL EXTERMINATOUS THE WHOLE FRIGGIN PLANET?!?!?!

Really? You're going to tell that story with a strait face? And do it so well that I will totally be willing to suspend my disbelief and root for the chainsaw wielding maniac serving a corpse god?

Holy crap! That is the definition of epic.

I think tha is a big reason why 40k is more popular.

That answer is made of win.

part of it is also that the Space Marine is the poster boy for GW. If you think of 40k, the image of a space marine comes to mind. For fantasy, there is really no true image model. The "White Dwarf" himself? Not unique to WHFB. If you think about it, what is really unique to WHFB? Skaven perhaps, or lizardmen? But then they are not ideal "poster boys"...

40k is definitely more popular..just take a look at the number of hits and readers at each specific section, and the ratio of 2:1 in favor of 40k is there.

Both game systems themselves are solid. GW just made an error with some army books which really imbalanced the environment in 7th ed. In 6th ed and the early days of 7th the environment was really nice, every army could win it in a tourney. Sadly that is not the case today specific armies now really gives you the advantage without having to resort to composition scores and regulations.

5th ed also made 40k much more dynamic by removing the focus on just killing everything to objective claiming with troop choices. In addition, there is in general parity with most codexes, so player skill is better reflected in 40k now.

I have been playing competitively in both systems since 1998, so have had a chance to see how they have been evolving since that time. Love both games so much so I have 3 full whfb armies and 5 full 40k armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Henners91 wrote:

riplikash wrote:For me I was initially attracted to Fantasy because of its model, formation combat, and my love of high fantasy.

But once you start delving into the fluff, fantasy could be any of a thousand other fantasy worlds and there would be no different. It is rather dry. It is just like every other fantasy world. There just isn't a lot of magic there.

40k has a vibrant enthusiasm to the fluff I have never encountered in other fiction. It is silly, dark, gritty, funny, and over the top while still managing to take itself seriously, and get me to suspend my disbelief.

Space elves? Orks with cars that go faster because they paint them red, and guns that work because they think they should? 8ft super humans who spit acid, drink poison, sleep with one eye open, and fire rocket propelled armor piercing fully automatic grenade launchers, wielding chainswords, against an army of tyranidswho devoured all life in the universe and are rising up to do it again and say "I'll be back" (yes i know they don't actually say it) as they RISE FROM THE FRIGGIN GRAVE TO SHOOT GUNS THAT FLAW FLESH ONE MOLECULE AT A TIME IN A DUNGEON TOMB BENEATH AN OPPRESIVE HIVE CITY, AND WE BETTER WIN OR THEY WILL EXTERMINATOUS THE WHOLE FRIGGIN PLANET?!?!?!

Really? You're going to tell that story with a strait face? And do it so well that I will totally be willing to suspend my disbelief and root for the chainsaw wielding maniac serving a corpse god?

Holy crap! That is the definition of epic.

I think tha is a big reason why 40k is more popular.

That answer is made of win.

I second the motion!!! Go guard!!!

I think that, in addition to the goofy, over the top grimdarkness that is bouth funny, epic, depressing and awesome while still taking itself seriously is that the 40K galaxy is just so BIG!
Entire worlds can burn without disrupting the status quo. Storm of chaos? Never Happened. Nemisis crown? Safely sequestered. Medusa 5? Gone. Unlivable. Trashed. Shelled out husk of a constant warzone.

I sit down to write my army's fluff in fantasy, and all of a sudden, I start bumping into walls everywhere. In 40K our campaign demolishes systems on a regular basis. Our planetary empire campaign has special rules for the consumption of planets by tyranids. The planet is removed from play.
This is the universe in which entire worlds are lost in burecratic errors. One of them could have been yours, after all, its a big galaxy, and there is a very small chance that anything you can think of dosen't exist. Go ahead, make technids, allied with the imperium, and trading for parts. There are two unknown leigions, with two missing primarchs.

There are Vallhans,(the Space Red Army) Mordians,(the Space Dress Uniformed, Uptight by the Book Soldiers) Praetorians,(the Space Zulu War British) Steel Legion(the Space Panzer Grenediers) Tallarns (the Space Arabs) Catachans (an army of Space Rambos) Vostroyans (the Space Tsarists) the SpaceInquisition, the Black Templars (the Space Crusaders/the Space Knights Templar) Salamanders (the Space Token Minority) Blood Angels (the Space Goths/Vampires) and Ultramarines (the Space Marines) Led by the SPACE EMPEROR

VS

The Space Orks, (with the Space Gobbos) the Space Elves, the Space DARK Elves, Squats, (the Space Dwaves), Zoats (the Space Centaurs) Hrud (the Space Skaven *sort of*) Slan (the Space Slan!) and other goofyness.

If you can give a good reason as to there being a race of space vamp- (oh, wait) or space.... dang, what archetype isn't covered... Hmm... Oh, yeah SPACE NINJAS!, then go right ahead, knock yourself out. Have fun converting!


That is why 40K is more popular than fantasy.

sniperjolly wrote:

If you can give a good reason as to there being a race of space vamp- (oh, wait) or space.... dang, what archetype isn't covered... Hmm... Oh, yeah SPACE NINJAS!, then go right ahead, knock yourself out. Have fun converting!


That is why 40K is more popular than fantasy.

I demand space chaos dwarfs!!!! Imagine, big hats in space.

For me personally, Warhammer Fantasy is a conglomeration of stolen ideas that have been overused by every fantasy fiction ever composed. I think the fantasy genre has become a cliche because there's never much deviation from the archetypes.

Warhammer 40k, though also a conglomeration of stolen ideas, has been modified enough that it doesn't resemble the concepts from which it was derived, and therefore has the appearance of originality.

Science fiction, in general, is a much broader canvass where almost any concept is justifiable. Possibilities are less limited than they are with Fantasy. Makes for a more interesting backdrop imo.

I think that 40k can be a bit more fun and easier to play especially appeals to New people.

40k is more popular than Fantasy because fantasy doesn't have orbital bombardlements.

usernamesareannoying wrote:40k is only more popular based upon location.
i'm fairly certain that i remember it being shown that overall fantasy does better than 40k.

Of course this is easily disproven just by looking at the sales numbers. Last I saw, SM alone made up nearly 50% of GW's sales, and for a while, FB was in 3rd place behind LotR.

Fantasy is a better game that is less fun to play.

Sure, it's more of a wargame than 40k, but after writing lists and deploying, 90% of the outcome of any given WFB game is set in stone. The swing in power of the neat stuff is also far greater: things like chariots, wizards, cannons, etc. can either decimate the enemy or destroy themselves, while in 40k most things work reasonably reliably.

Throw in a world just defined enough to be restricting but not interesting enough to really dive into, rampant power imbalance across the army books, and overall a pretty silly idea (ranked 28mm figures), and fantasy simply isn't fun.

it isn't everywhere, the place i always play it theres like 4 40k players (including me) and about 15 fantasy (including me ) I've asked everyone why and nearly always comes down too: Fantasy is more advanced and everyone prefers that.
One guy told me 40K is like checkers and Fantasy is Chess xD

Dashofpepper wrote:40k is more popular than Fantasy because fantasy doesn't have orbital bombardlements.

The Comet of Casandora disagrees with you.

Polonius wrote:Fantasy is a better game that is less fun to play.

Sure, it's more of a wargame than 40k, but after writing lists and deploying, 90% of the outcome of any given WFB game is set in stone. The swing in power of the neat stuff is also far greater: things like chariots, wizards, cannons, etc. can either decimate the enemy or destroy themselves, while in 40k most things work reasonably reliably.

Throw in a world just defined enough to be restricting but not interesting enough to really dive into, rampant power imbalance across the army books, and overall a pretty silly idea (ranked 28mm figures), and fantasy simply isn't fun.

First of all the "less fun" statement isn't correct purely because people like different things I like fantasy and 40k equally.

Also, not 90% is set in stone, one or 2 flanks moves can pretty much turn the tide for an entire game, regardless how your list is working.

As for fantasy being less original, yes i agree there, and the current imbalance is indeed horrific, but Ranked units are bloody fun! Cause i play Ogres

When I look at a 40k table, I can see a skirmish battle going on with lots of little dudes running around, shooting and screaming. It's a small battle, but there's plenty of things happening.

When I look at a Fantasy table, I see some sort of lame reenactment of the battle of Hastings, with "those 10 dudes over there really representing the thousand-strong household guard of King what's-his-name". WH Fantasy isn't a war game, it's a war reenactment game.
The maneuver system is designed for large formations, but sadly you're only poking around with a handful of your guys. Most of whom won't do anything except fall over. I just don't see the point of even modelling the rear three ranks of a unit, when the rules are designed to trivialise them.

I played Fantasy in 5th and 6th ed, and I still have my armies. I got bored doing the same endless repetitions of "march forward and fight when you meet something". One day, there might just be an edition worth playing. I'm not holding my breath.
If I feel like playing rank-and-file battles there are better systems I can turn to.

I can't comment on the WHFB rules, having never so much as read their rulebook. Though I'm not huge on clustering my units like that.

It boils down to fluff and aesthetics for me. I like the way some of the 40K stuff looks, (although the mega shoulder pads, stock-less boltguns and the propensity of baldness among Space Marines is annoying) and I don't really see any WHFB armies that appear to me visually.

As for fluff, well, like its been said, WHFB feels like yet another elves, magic dwarves and dragons world, where as the grimdark sci-fi universe is more unique to me.

freddieyu1 wrote:

Henners91 wrote:

riplikash wrote:For me I was initially attracted to Fantasy because of its model, formation combat, and my love of high fantasy.

But once you start delving into the fluff, fantasy could be any of a thousand other fantasy worlds and there would be no different. It is rather dry. It is just like every other fantasy world. There just isn't a lot of magic there.

40k has a vibrant enthusiasm to the fluff I have never encountered in other fiction. It is silly, dark, gritty, funny, and over the top while still managing to take itself seriously, and get me to suspend my disbelief.

Space elves? Orks with cars that go faster because they paint them red, and guns that work because they think they should? 8ft super humans who spit acid, drink poison, sleep with one eye open, and fire rocket propelled armor piercing fully automatic grenade launchers, wielding chainswords, against an army of tyranidswho devoured all life in the universe and are rising up to do it again and say "I'll be back" (yes i know they don't actually say it) as they RISE FROM THE FRIGGIN GRAVE TO SHOOT GUNS THAT FLAW FLESH ONE MOLECULE AT A TIME IN A DUNGEON TOMB BENEATH AN OPPRESIVE HIVE CITY, AND WE BETTER WIN OR THEY WILL EXTERMINATOUS THE WHOLE FRIGGIN PLANET?!?!?!

Really? You're going to tell that story with a strait face? And do it so well that I will totally be willing to suspend my disbelief and root for the chainsaw wielding maniac serving a corpse god?

Holy crap! That is the definition of epic.

I think tha is a big reason why 40k is more popular.

That answer is made of win.

I second the motion!!! Go guard!!!

+1

The Commissar...



Approves!

Waitaminnit... If Bretonnians were the only human faction in WHFB, yes, I would say its fluff would be a total rip-off. But as it stands you have the Empire, which I find really unique as fantasy civilizations go. Yes, it is basically a Thirty Years War-era Germany, with added 14th century pestilence and witch-hunting, but that is IMO more interesting than both the ubiquitous 12th century middle ages world or the steampunk that DnD has devolved to.

I think WHFB took a long fluff-step forward in the Mordheim era. More chaos, madness and desperation, less shining knights and Tolkien elves. The only other setting I can think of with 17th century-roots is the Might and Magic-world, and it sucks!

EDIT: Removed some RPG-related ranting that doesn't really belong in a Warhammer forum. Sorry!

Soladrin wrote:it isn't everywhere, the place i always play it theres like 4 40k players (including me) and about 15 fantasy (including me ) I've asked everyone why and nearly always comes down too: Fantasy is more advanced and everyone prefers that.
One guy told me 40K is like checkers and Fantasy is Chess xD

As a fantasy and 40k player for 11 years now, the ruleset of WHFB was indeed good and "advanced" right at the time of 6th ed and the early days of 7th ed. However, 40k got a huge boost and leapfrogged (in terms of strategy and tactics) when 5th ed came out because of the fact that killing became secondary to objective grabbing. Lets face it, WHFB games stagnated due to the fact that pitched battle is essentially the only scenario that everyone can predict for, and thus army builds are all geared for this. In 40k now, you NEED troops to claim objectives, and simply put the system is such that you can swing many kinds of missions, and the game can still pull it off. In addition, the extreme army book creep has really set back WHFB to the days of 5th ed where chaos knights and the lizards really reigned supreme, thus the need for composition rules.

So as of now, WHFB is the older, yet stagnant ruleset. I mean essentially it still plays the same way. 40k has entered a brand new era of dynamism and is quite refreshing. So yes WHFB maybe akin to chess, but 40k now is more like sudoku rather than checkers, where each game you can have an entire new set of numbers to work upon. I do hope 8th ed can put this kind of dynamism back into WHFB, so my empire, lizards, and tomb kings can find more opponents to fight against, WITHOUT the need of comp rules to balance things.

I thinks more down to freedom of movement than anything. I played fantasy for a while but the whole "Only front rank can shoot and only while standing still" really put things off for me. Why can't a bunch of ranked archers shoot together? They did in real life, and I see no reason to not do so in a small fantasy game. Also turning in that game is just stupid, I realise that it can't be as loose as 40 k but it surely can't be as stuck as fantasy is. And this is where War of the Ring comes in, its a much better fantasy ruleset in my opinion than Warhammer FB will ever be and though they may have increased magic too much its made up for in other areas of fun. But 40k is a lot more fun than fantasy because I can actually do what I want without some arbitrary rule telling me that turning my rear rank around involves moving the entire formation...

Frankly, its easier.

Easier to collect, convert, paint and play 40k compared to fantasy, no wheeling, magic, psychology or complicated combats. So its easier for people to start, which is why you see most people get into the hobby due to 40k.

Mookie.

Mookie Blaylock..are you really THE mookie blaylock of the Atlanta Hawks???

40k has a much wider appeal, and the fluff was drowned in winsauce.

Fantasy is a tad more generic, but I love both games.

I think 40k is more popular due to the sci-fi setting and the general coolness of the models. Another major reason I believe is just how the games are played. 40k games are easily more fast paced with models deep striking, tanks rolling across the field and jetbikes flying around.

I like 40k better because it just has that totally badass appeal to.. well... everything. In fantasy, there was never an army range that I completely fell in love with. But I love almost all of 40k's ranges.

I've actually played both, and like 40k more. As a game, I just enjoy it more because Fantasy is all about angles and facing and stuff.

Plus, in 40k, fluff is WAAAAAAYY better. It is actually unique and books and movies can be (and are) made about it, and it's still original and interesting. Every race/army has its own unique story to tell, with lots of room to be added onto!

40k has more room for conversions and overall creativity.

And, in 40k, I can make my own faction of some race without feeling like a total moron.

I think it's got a bit more of that 'grimdark' -ish...ness.

People like 40K because of the MULT1LAZ0RZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL BOW BEFORE GOTO, THE MULT1LAZ0R L0RD!

Dammit. I can't believe I forgot about the MULTILAZORZ! Also, remeber the Razorbacks which turn into Land Raiders!!!

You mean the LAND RAZ0RS?1!? With twin linked MULTILASCCAN0NLAZZ0RZ?!?1?

AGProductions wrote:1) Fantasy, from what I've heard is a more complex game

2) 40K is more popular because as people come into game shops, they see people playing 40K.

The network effect (2) is the primary reason - both are 2-player games, and the more players in the group, the better, so success feeds on itself.

1 is a load of crap that WFB players like to spout. Fantasy is more fiddly, like Kabuki theatre. These are both relatively simple games, so trying to claim "better" / more complex is nonsense.

My first ever table-top model was a tau fire warrior with a drone, given to me by a good friend. Since then, about 8-10 years ago. I've gotten myself a large army of tau, complete with multiable tanks, almost a dozen crisis suits and soon to be special leaders (Shadowsun is in the mail, and i already have the parts for farsight ).

Mainly, I believe that 40K is much more in the way of creative when it comes to people and their war machines and troops. Sure.. you can have a stone thrower in Fantasty.. but what else can you convert your stone thrower into? Not much really. Now.. what can you convert your leman russ battle tank into? A looted tank? 7 variants of itself? Some strange custom tank you thought up? A Landrazor? If populary also equals the ability to be creative with your units... then i think 40K wins hands down.

However.. fanasty has a strong sence of appeal to it. It's a much more different flow that it is to 40K. Having large sets of blocks of troops marching down the plains of war is rather awe inspiring to watch and watching knights charge into evil beasts and creatures never gets tiring for me ;p

My FLGS also boasts a lot more W40K players than WHFB players, so I agree that the cumulative recruitment effect must be important.

One question, though: If GW are such shameless moneygrabbers as many of you claim AND W40K makes all the dough, why is WHFB regularly clogging up the issues of White Dwarf? I've bought WD on and off since 1998, and it isn't like they just push W40K to the exclusion of everything else (take a look at the December edition). Could it be that GW actually cares for the gamers, and want to support a system even though it doesn't maximize profits?