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I think McCain would make a good substitute teacher.

Thoughts?



Yeah... didn't think so.

Da Boss wrote:Good man, I like to hear that sort of sentiment.
Also, if you think someone is going to attack you at all, just tell a teacher and they can hover in the nearby area with their tea or whatever, and keep an eye. Then you have seen it yourself from beginning to end, and realistically, it probably won't kick off while you're there unless the kid in question is a nutjob.

While I understand your train of thought and the "need to maintain order",I also want my child to learn self reliance,running to the teacher every time he faces some sort of "school yard adversity" IMO,isn't helping him to build much character or helping him to learn to stand on his own two feet.

Fair enough but if I catch him scrapping in the school yard both he and the other kid will recieve punishment regardless. Equal punishment, but there ya go.

My father had the same philosophy with me, btw, and it is a good one. Teaching kids to stand up to bullies is good and I commend it.
Just easier for us if we can deal with everything ourselves

The school I'm at now is tough (for an Irish school, it'd probably be a dream school in other places) but oddly there's very few fights. Where I went to school out in the countryside they were a lot more common.

And equal punishment would be fair,not only did I teach my Son to stand up for himself,but I've also tought him that actions have consequences,both good and bad.
And I do understand the whole situation from the Teachers point of view,personaly I belive teachers are underappreciated.

Wrexasaur wrote:I think McCain would make a good substitute teacher.

Thoughts?



Yeah... didn't think so.

I thought the problem was students were'nt going to school! This only makes it worse!!

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:At my school you get in worse trouble for defending yourself when attacked (one day internal suspension, five days external. or any combo thereof.)
While the attacker gets one day internal, two days external(once again, combo thereof.)

Seems to me, if you're going to get twice as much trouble for defending yourself, you oughta take the beating like a man.

Then blindside him with a blackjack and curbstomp the living hell out of him.

Twice.

Wrexasaur wrote:I think McCain would make a good substitute teacher.

Thoughts?



Yeah... didn't think so.

He looks more like the host of some "late night horror movie" show,put him in a lab coat with a few skull props and bubbling beakers and he'd be perfect...just grab the popcorn and roll "I was a teenage zombie from planet x".

Da Boss wrote:One of the reasons that teachers use zero tolerance type stuff is to speed up the discipline issues.

Actually, the primary reason behind so-called "zero tolerance" is so that nobody at the school has to think or make intelligent decisions. They simply say "zero tolerance", and that's that.

Me, I'm going to teach my boys to fight dirty, as a team, and if they put some wannabe-bully in the hospital, I'll be OK with that.

I got in a a few fights before... never did get in trouble, but it buggered up my right eye even more than it already was.

In some cases, the punishment is worth it if it breaks the fight up. And looking back, all those fights were stupid, even if they were provoked.

My lad got in trouble at school not long ago for punching another kid. I asked him why he did it - he just said the other boy 'just walked up and punched him for no reason, so I punched him back and he ran off crying.' To which I replied 'nice job son, never let anyone mug you off', then I ruffled his hair and sent him off to go and dig up worms in the garden, or whatever the hell else 6-year old lads do when their parents aren't looking!

To be honest, that's the way I live MY life - if someone wants to have it, then let's fething HAVE it. Whenever anyone's tried it on with me, I've done my level best to absolutely NAIL them. I think growing up in Middlesbrough has a lot do do with that attitude. If that sounds like I walk around looking for fights to get into, then nothing could be further from the truth - I've never STARTED a fight in my life. It's always possible to walk away before punches start flying.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Da Boss wrote:One of the reasons that teachers use zero tolerance type stuff is to speed up the discipline issues.

Actually, the primary reason behind so-called "zero tolerance" is so that nobody at the school has to think or make intelligent decisions. They simply say "zero tolerance", and that's that.

Me, I'm going to teach my boys to fight dirty, as a team, and if they put some wannabe-bully in the hospital, I'll be OK with that.

Explain how you would resolve discipline issues quickly and fairly and consistently without any risk of appearing to show favourtism without a policy like that?

@ Albatross.
Not sure what Middlesbrough is like,but it appears (at least in the "you better know how to defend yourself"department) a bit like New Orleans,cheers to you my friend I absolutely get where your coming from.
Oh,and as far as what 6 year old boys(lads) get into when the parents aren't looking..in my Sons case it was trying out to become the next Power Ranger.

I don't intend to be a parent since I am a irespouncible youth I"ll
probably bail if I get the whole "I'm pregnet" Deal.

But I was quiet when I was little. In fact no one noticed me till one day the bully decided it was my turn to be tormented.

Well I put up with it till about a day later, when I beat him half to death with my chair.

Needless to say I was kept alone just the way I wanted it.

-Edit- Why the hell did my comp cut that sentence in half? O.o

@FITZZ - Ridley Scott based the look of Bladerunner on Middlesbrough's industrial skyline. Seriously.
Think petrochemical/steel works, docklands, grey skies and heroin. It's the first time I've ever heard it compared to New Orleans, that's for DAMN sure! I always got the impression that it was a quite exotic and vibrant city. Is it quite grimdark like?

No, that is Detroit...

Da Boss wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Da Boss wrote:One of the reasons that teachers use zero tolerance type stuff is to speed up the discipline issues.

Actually, the primary reason behind so-called "zero tolerance" is so that nobody at the school has to think or make intelligent decisions. They simply say "zero tolerance", and that's that.

Explain how you would resolve discipline issues quickly and fairly and consistently without any risk of appearing to show favourtism without a policy like that?

You confuse fairness with uniformity. Fairness has absolutely nothing to do with zero tolerance, and you know it. It has everything to do with avoiding accountability by anybody within the school system.

And focusing on quickness and uniformity is again an example of how the school chooses not to think. It's the promotion of arbitrary, convenient, blind, mindless decision-making.

The message it teaches children is not to think, to follow rules blindly. To take shortcuts when they are easy and convenient. It is good for conformity and unthinking order. Bad for anything else.

But it is an excellent metaphor for industrialized schooling, that's for sure.

@ Albatross

New Orleans is very exotic,and was (and is becoming again) very vibrant,however it was the murder capital of America many years running,with all it's beauty and fantastic music and culture,New Orleans is still an extreamly violent city,in fact most of the kids in my old nieghborhood could fight before we could read.
In many ways my hometown reminds me of a schizo girlfriend,lovely and beautiful but at the same time vicious and deadly.

Yeah, zero-tolerance is a pain. I have noted that that sort of thing tends to fall inversly to the amount of times you get in trouble. Mainly because the "Powers" get bored if they crucify the same guy multiple times.

A fairly simple method of avoiding trouble is to do your fighting last block, on a Friday. It is surpriseingly effective at dodging trouble (One time, I got off the hook because, over the weekend, the persecution forgot that they were mad at me.)

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Da Boss wrote:One of the reasons that teachers use zero tolerance type stuff is to speed up the discipline issues.

Actually, the primary reason behind so-called "zero tolerance" is so that nobody at the school has to think or make intelligent decisions. They simply say "zero tolerance", and that's that.

Explain how you would resolve discipline issues quickly and fairly and consistently without any risk of appearing to show favourtism without a policy like that?

You confuse fairness with uniformity. Fairness has absolutely nothing to do with zero tolerance, and you know it. It has everything to do with avoiding accountability by anybody within the school system.

And focusing on quickness and uniformity is again an example of how the school chooses not to think. It's the promotion of arbitrary, convenient, blind, mindless decision-making.

The message it teaches children is not to think, to follow rules blindly. To take shortcuts when they are easy and convenient. It is good for conformity and unthinking order. Bad for anything else.

But it is an excellent metaphor for industrialized schooling, that's for sure.

So what you're saying is, you don't actually have a better system for a teacher to solve discipline issues.
Cool.

No, I didn't say that.

It's pretty obvious that discipline should be handled with some intelligent thought and consideration, rather than simply looking up an answer in the back of a book and applying it blindly.

I don't have a book and we don't have a policy, but what I described (in situations of ambiguous bad behaviour involving two or more students, all get equal punishment) is what I find to be the most effective.

Perhaps if I was working in a school where discipline isssues were less prevalent, I could spend more time on those that crop up, which would obviously be good. But as it is, I'm under a lot of time pressure in classes to get through material, help all the kids, make sure they're all staying "with me" and so on. Discipline issues are the number 1 way to derail that. In practical science classes, if you engage in ANY sort of rough housing, that's it, you're not doing the experiment. That's a safety issue and the thing I am most zero tolerance about.

My prefered system would be to spend the first 2 months of school or so absolutely drilling the kids about discipline, chasing up absolutely everything, getting to the bottom of every single misbehaviour and dealing with it appropriately. Then you could develop a much more detailed understanding of your classroom dynamic, and instill a sense of consequence and logic about ill discipline in the students. Once good behaviour is the norm, it becomes self enforcing (teenagers are nothing if not conformist).
However, that is not how schools operate at the moment- we're in a system that sort of assumes that parents have raised their kids to be reasonable, that the kids are going to be reasonable and that discipline won't be a major problem. Whereas the truth is depending on the school parents may be actively anti-authority, hate teachers, or just not give a damn about their own kids, and kids are mostly self centred liars who increasingly feel they have rights a plenty, but no understanding of social responsibility.

Our schools zero tolerance policy is only in effect for people who don't usually do wrong. The troublemakers usually get let off easily.

And anyway, fighting face to face isn't my style. I prefer the good old fashioned "Knifein the back is worth a thousand swords in the fore" approach .

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:At my school you get in worse trouble for defending yourself when attacked (one day internal suspension, five days external. or any combo thereof.)
While the attacker gets one day internal, two days external(once again, combo thereof.)

Seems to me, if you're going to get twice as much trouble for defending yourself, you oughta take the beating like a man.

Then blindside him with a blackjack and curbstomp the living hell out of him.

Twice.

i believe others have been espousing that previously.

If you don't wanna get in trouble for defending yourself why don't ya play by the rules and go tell on the kid that hit you like they want you to, and then go kick is ass after school?

I'm bored at work with 4 hours left to go so here I go... CORPRAL PUNISHMENT!!!!! You wanna beat up another kid dag nabbit I should ahve the right to beat you!!!! now... please spark contraversy.

On one hand, I wish the teachers would break out the rulers and whip some of those kids back into shape. I was watching a Christmas Story with the family at xmas time and all the scenes in school you see the kids being all obedient and respectful. Those days are long gone :(

On the other hand, if I had a kid in school, and I found out his teacher whipped his fanny with a big ruler, I would probably wanna murder the teacher till they're bruised & bloodied.

Necros wrote:
On the other hand, if I had a kid in school, and I found out his teacher whipped his fanny with a big ruler, I would probably wanna murder the teacher till they're bruised & bloodied.

I would first ask if the teacher was highly attractive, and if they were DEMAND a private parent teacher confrence at say ooo the best western room 201!

Necros wrote:On one hand, I wish the teachers would break out the rulers and whip some of those kids back into shape. I was watching a Christmas Story with the family at xmas time and all the scenes in school you see the kids being all obedient and respectful. Those days are long gone :(

On the other hand, if I had a kid in school, and I found out his teacher whipped his fanny with a big ruler, I would probably wanna murder the teacher till they're bruised & bloodied.

The pelvis is the strongest bone structure in the human body. The back of it is covered by the biggest, strongest muscles in the human body. In 99% of people, there is a significant layer of fat present as further padding. All covered with a nice, sensitive layer of skin.

It's almost like it was desgined to be used for punishment. Significant pain inflicted, minimal chance of actual damage being done.

Edit: Yes, I got spanked as a child. And yes, I deserved it when it happened. It taught me, at quite a young age, that breaking the rules has painful consequences.

Spanked? Mate, I got belted. When pain is involved, you definitely learn quickly as a kid. Works for me, but I don't think I'd approve a stranger like a teacher dishing it out.

This kinda thing always drove me nuts in school. I got into a lot of little fist fights growing up, me being the smartmouthed little brat that I was and being nerdy, I got picked on and fought back alot. I had a teacher in 7th grade who told me that in his day, the teachers would break up a fight when a bunch of kids would crowd around yelling "fight! fight! fight!" and what not. They would then send the kids involved up to an empty classroom to settle their differences in private. Usually without the other kids egging them on, they wouldnt even fight and would just drop the whole thing. Once in a while some kid would get a bloody nose and it'd get settled that way. He was pretty old though so it must have been in the 40s or 50s when they did things like that. Teachers probably shouldn't send their students to go duke it out like that, but I woulda liked it better that way when I was in middle school and high school lol. I think people should use common sense instead of zero tolerance. No matter who you punish or how, boys will still be boys.