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Looks like another hit Codex to me.

I spent the weekend with the new Tyranid codex.

I conclude:

Junk, C- codex

Didn't fix the issue where dead small bugs causearmor saves when bigger bugs are in the same melee if the side loses, UTTER FAIL for the swarm. This alone make it not worth playing.

Tyranids have no tanks, in the 5th mech world, they are a fail army.

All TMCs got massively more expensive, and certainly not proportionally better.

LOADS of irritating special one case rules, where is it, where was it, where is it going.....

Terrible codex layout and organization, no index, summary sections cross refernce unit description horrible mess.

Meaningless rules like armor types in the army list entries.

No Invulnerable saves.

Insufficient Antitank capacity.

Loss of immunity to instant death with hive mind.

Loss of feeder tendrils preferred enemy.

Invalidated old army builds.

Stinker units that will never see the table, pyrofex etc.

Over reliance on combination units, that's the Tau's thing and it doesn't work very well after casualties start.

FILLED with rules for models and options that don't exist as miniatures. Expect to see a lot of Tyranofex as a regular indistinguishable carnifex. Swarmlord? Pod? Flying swarms? Harridan?

Took away rules for models that DO exist? Why do that, doesn't even make sense on selling new models? How could you sell more models when you took the rules out for their options?

In a word:

FLAT

This codex is poorly organized, poorly written, tactically sub standard, and mediocre for fluff.

Mine will be going on eBay, the Day of the Devourer has ended.

I agree with Augustus, for the most part. I was underwelmed with the units. I'm not looking for uber units, I just want something that will hold it's own. Right now I don't see it. In the last edition the bugs could make a WS 4 str 9 carnifex with 4 attacks that made enemy models WS -1 in combat and had frag grenades all for 114pts. Now we get something close, but not quiet there and it's 160pts. I don't see the big deal about the 160pts carnifex when nobady took the 114pt one before.

Generally just completely underwhelmed by the codex.

Oooh, means I'll be able to build my 'Nid army up cheap with all the quitters jumping ship.

Y'know fate i was thinking exactly the same thing.

I don't hate the new codex, thats not to say i'm thrilled with it but i don't outright hate it, i like the changes to the fex, it comes with most of the upgrades you'd take anyway and you can make it I4 on the charge, that in itself is fun, Gaunts are now a sensible price, stealers are still troops, the Tervigon is a must have (as is the tyrannofex), conversley i'm very underwhelmed with the lictor (still) the pyrovore, Tenticle beast and big gargoyle thingie, they are all very meh choices and probably won't make it into my army.

The codex layout is ghastly but did you expect anything less from GeeDub and Robbie crud? all in all a very average codex IMO.

Oh and if someone could refresh me, what unit got taken out of the codex as per Augustus' post?

The best I can guess is SniperFex, as you can no longer have two big guns. All I can think of.

Old one eye owns! S10?!
and his regenerate rule is awesome!
Swarmlord is excellent too.
broodlords as sergeants? genestealers that infiltrate, s4 t4 rending 2 attacks?! termagaunt-spawning monstrous creatures and gribblie drop pods that have 20 models or a monstrous creature?! , a ripper-injecting parasite and guys coming out of tunnels that the trygon made? and S10 zoanthrope power? and a guy that feeds on the life powers of others? best codex in ages!!! It really shows how 'nid's backgrounds are- threatening to devour the entire galaxy, always changing to defeat a foe.

I really saw this codex as a very blatant 'Make the good stuff bad, the bad stuff good and some of the new stuff even better to make people buy more models'.

Ya, that was abundantly clear

Generally just completely underwhelmed by the codex.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Insufficient Antitank capacity.

Maybe they will re-introduce lucky glancing hit rules for 6th edition

I personally like the codex. Though I didn't run Hard Core Nidzilla (only ran 6 lightly upgraded MC's) and never touched a gunfex so I guess maybe i'm just not as pissed. I'll only be buying 2 new models to upgrade my army and a few bitz so I don't even see it as a blatant money grab. Oh well, to each their own

Hulksmash:

Yeah, it's kind of ironic that players like us won't be buying much. Mind you, I think I'm still going to pick up some boxes of Gargoyles and Raveners because my mandate for my Tyranids was an all-plastic army and because they'll be extra alien gribblies for Space Hulk-esque games.

Mind you, I now have more Tyranid Troops than I have slots in an army (three units of Termagants, two units of Genestealers, one unit of Rippers, three units of Warriors). Time to start a second Force Organization Chart? Maybe...

Yeah, I was running an almost all plastic army last edition with only my Hive Tyrant being metal but the new conversion opportunities and the way the new list plays makes me happy. I was winning with these styles of lists last codex. My lists just got better

I played a 1500 match vs Nids with my Tau on friday. I was disappointed with the Nid book as they are my other army, and think I'll take Tau to 'ard boyz this year.

2 units of rapid firing FW with Ml support dropped the swarm lord in one turn, Malwoc got smoked by 2 units of crisis suit fire in a turn. Kroot rapid fired Deathleaper. Genestealers still munched on kroot, as expected.

I ended up taking all but 2 hive guard out by the end of the game and he dropped a few FW, My Shas'o 200 pts of kroot, 1 devil fish, 1 hammer head and 2 of my 9 crisis suits.

the broodlord alone charged my 2 broadsides and they fought for 2 full turns before the BL died due to POTW.

I ran all plastic too, outside of a couple HQs.

I can also admit that's one reason why I'm disatisfied.

What am I going to do now with 8 carnifiexes? Certainly not play them all at over 1600 points...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Acardia wrote:...the broodlord alone charged my 2 broadsides and they fought for 2 full turns before the BL died due to POTW.

Broadsides killed a broodlord in HtH?

Sad day for the Tyranids, dare I say without the power weapon, he's just not very great.

Augustus:

You were limited to six Carnifices in the previous Codex (3 Elite, 3 Heavy Support). Now you can play all eight as three Heavy Support choices. There's not much plastic in the Elite slots these days though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, apparently the Brood Lord self-destructed in combat.

"Tyranid People's Front, Suicide squad: Committ, suicide!"

Nurglitch wrote:Augustus:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, apparently the Brood Lord self-destructed in combat.

"Tyranid People's Front, Suicide squad: Committ, suicide!"

Correct, he rolled a double 1 when using that power that makes a leadership + D6 vs target to not attack power.

We wern't sure since he was using it against the Team leader with the drone controller that the drones could still fight, so really it was only 1 broadside beating on the BL

Luck wasn't with the Tyranid player.

Sounds like the BL psyked himself to death.

5 attacks on the charge, 4 hits, 2's to wound so 3 wounds, lets pretend 1 wound; suits hit back needing 5's so 2 hits to be generous, 1 wound, Bl saves .5 (so either a save or not).

I ran the BL at 92 points in the old codex and he was way to OP than; 60pts for the exact same stats and pw would be way worst considering that the BL can now cripple models, can make it easier for squads to break and take extra wounds.

What hurt the BL in 4th was his inabiltiy to fleet thus denying his retinue their job. It was never his cost.

Now he loses PW, his armor save is slightly worst but he can't be singled out in assaults (was annoying to have someone like Vulcan face the BL because guess who won most the time? Vulcan).

PotW killing the BL wasn't the BL's fault. Just bad luck on the Tyranid player.

I would have been just going for the morale reducer. Shutting down one suit might have resulted in one less wound but winning the combat by even 1 and than forcing another -1 means the BS are testing morale at 6 or less. They fail that BL will probably wipe them out in the advance (I7 vs I2).

Augustus wrote:
What am I going to do now with 8 carnifiexes? Certainly not play them all at over 1600 points...

Make them into Tervigons, Harpies, and or Tyrannofexs. I don't know why you had 8 Carnifexs to begin with. But wait a second! You can actually use 8 carnifexs now! They make cost a little more, but you can also throw a plasma cannon shot along with those 12 devourer shots.

Go ahead and sell your army though, it just makes it easier for me to finish my army off.

Acardia:

Kind of ironic when you think about what the power he was using is supposed to do!

My favourite no-sequitur is Lictors becoming lurkers. Someone quoted either Cruddace or Kelly to the effect that fixing Lictors was their rules priority. Oh dear boys, oh dear..

I can't see much beyond 8pt hormagaunts. Everything else is far to expensive for what it does or how survivable it is, so as far as I can see all it can really be there for is to get your hormagaunts into a position to win the game.

Fateweaver wrote:
What hurt the BL in 4th was his inabiltiy to fleet thus denying his retinue their job. It was never his cost.

Now he loses PW, his armor save is slightly worst but he can't be singled out in assaults (was annoying to have someone like Vulcan face the BL because guess who won most the time? Vulcan).

Actually you couldn't single out a BL in the last codex either because he was part of a retinue. Check it, core rule book, that part is the same.

Oops.

Still, my BL ran 92 pts (or somewhere close) for preferred enemy, grenades and of course his insane attacks.

He ate many a 10 man tac squad and assault squad and that just felt wrong that a 92 pt model could kill a 170+ pt tac squad on it's own.

IMO he got better. Sure he'd have eaten those 2 broadsides easily with the old codex but that's also very lopsided as well. 92 vs 160+ and winning.

Against anything Tau I probably wouldn't even use any of his abilities. Even with 2 suits attacking the BL should come out on top (not to mention it would be possible for a BL to hit with all his attacks and rend with all of them thus killing both suits b4 they even could blink). Give him talons and if he whiffs his attacks he can at least reroll any 1's.

True, but both suits and 2 shield drones over 2 turns should of dropped him since he only had one would left.

Yeah. Sounds like bad luck and so I wouldn't put much merit into dismissing the BL.

He'll still wreck stuff on his own, just not as badly (as in OTT way) and he still makes up for it by not crippling his own squad.

OK, I like that he's a squad upgrade, I like the thematic Idea of it, him not being an army leader and all.

But I think he got a lot worse otherwise. Preffered enemy and genestealers was a big part of my old army mechanics seeing them and the brood lord go, is a bit much with everything else. What they have now isn't really a broodlord, it's an alpha genestealer. It should at least have hive mind for a broodlord.

I don't think the old BL was overpowered for his points, he didn't fleet and couldn't shoot, if he was average in melee what would the point be.... Oh wait that's exactly what the new one is....

On the larger issue of the Tyranid codex:

Wheres the Tyranid answer to mechanized armies? Don't see it

Where's the Tyranid answer to thunder hammer terminators or a seer council or any of the high power units? Not seeing it.

Whats going to make the melee swarm work? Not seeing it.

Why did cheap MCs get the axe?

I think the only real help the army got at all was the Zoantrope lance power, and 0-1 removal.

I also think variety is thematically awesome, but just for the sake of variety? For example how did a pyrovore happen, (lets make an expensive metal model that is innefective in the game too!) and a Harpy not get a model?

Well, reducing THammer termies to WS1 will go a long way toward keeping the Tyrant alive, especially if taken with some tyrant guard.

To be fair though nothing can deal with thunderhammer termies all that well outside of C'tan who ignore saves of all kinds. Even 200pts of khornate marked dual LC termies will struggle against thammer termies and khornate csm terminators are the hardest hitting termies you can take for the points.

SS is TOO good really.

Probably fair to say.

Supergaunts deal with TH/SS Termies just fine.

Augustus wrote:OK, I like that he's a squad upgrade, I like the thematic Idea of it, him not being an army leader and all.

But I think he got a lot worse otherwise. Preffered enemy and genestealers was a big part of my old army mechanics seeing them and the brood lord go, is a bit much with everything else. What they have now isn't really a broodlord, it's an alpha genestealer. It should at least have hive mind for a broodlord.

I don't think the old BL was overpowered for his points, he didn't fleet and couldn't shoot, if he was average in melee what would the point be.... Oh wait that's exactly what the new one is....

On the larger issue of the Tyranid codex:

Wheres the Tyranid answer to mechanized armies? Don't see it

So far, it's looking like either Zoanthropes in pods, or Hive Guard plus Tyrannofexes.

Where's the Tyranid answer to thunder hammer terminators or a seer council or any of the high power units? Not seeing it.

Either the Swarmlord, or Tervigons plus 20+ 'gants. (Are you reading this thread at all? Mahu & Shep have been sharing all manner of interesting observations over there.)

Whats going to make the melee swarm work? Not seeing it.

All CC? Not going to work. Lots of CC, though? 3 Zoanthropes, 2 Tyrannofexes, and lots of Hormaguants (plus Swarmlord, if you want) is actually pretty decent. Strangely enough, though, even the humble Termigant is a nasty little thing, when buffed by the Tervigon.

Why did cheap MCs get the axe?

Because you already own enough Carnifexes, and they want you to buy something else. Enter the Tervigon: 200 pts, properly equipped, and on average will output 20 'gants a game. Net cost: 100 pts for 6 wounds of 'gant buffing, plus the ability to toss FNP around. Plus you probably need to buy another 48 'gants.

I think the only real help the army got at all was the Zoantrope lance power, and 0-1 removal.

While there are plenty of things that are irksome about the new codex, this is extreme hyperbole.

I also think variety is thematically awesome, but just for the sake of variety? For example how did a pyrovore happen, (lets make an expensive metal model that is innefective in the game too!) and a Harpy not get a model?

The problem with the pyrovore is the slot he's in. If he were Fast Attack, he might actually get fielded - 2, in a pod, lets you bring a pair of heavy flamers in safely and with decent accuracy, and then drop 2 heavy flamer templates (and 6 BS2 S6 attacks from the pod). For 130 pts. it's not a bad deal, and it's something your opponent will have to deal with. But there are better uses of the Elite slot.

I want to know why they didn't have the Tervigon/Tyrannofex model ready to roll. They made those far more useful than the Trygon, and people are going to convert those now-surplus Carnifexen, rather than wait for GW to release a kit. Looks like significant lost sales opportunities there.

I actually don't mind the Pyrovore that much. Keep it in cover behind a screening CC unit and let it run free after wards. It doesn't need synapse at ALL, and is one of the few units to get power weapon attacks. The fact it can still shoot and then charge a unit outside of synapse can be pretty useful.