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I was pretty sure that if there was an enemy within 1" of all the access points and the units couldn't get out, they die. But I could be wrong, but that move has been used on me before.

sirisaacnuton wrote:

thekerrick wrote: Tyrannofex is the equivilent of an ig tank and is packing three weapons.

Well, not really. First, it's anywhere from 50-100 pts more expensive than an IG tank. It has no pie plates/low AP options, is slower, can't fire all 3 of its weapons at once, and its weapons are horribly mismatched... 48" range S10, 18" S5, and a flamer? (And if you take any option other than the S10 gun, it threatens only 12-18"... kinda like the Hellhound and its variants, except for the ability to move 18", followed by a 12" move+shoot the following turn lets it get into the fray plenty fast.)

I'm not saying the Tyrannofex is terrible, and against some things (like a single Lascannon or up-close Melta) it's much tougher than a tank, but it certainly is not the equivalent of a tank. After all, for every Melta or Lascannon that could pop a tank but only wound a Tyrannofex, there are a dozen bolters or 2 dozen Lasguns that could eventually kill the T-fex and never scratch the surface of a tank (barring AV10 vs. Bolters, of course).

Whenever I've tested them out, they've never done badly for me, but I haven't been overly impressed by them...I pay Land Raider points for them, and they don't add anywhere near what a Land Raider adds to an army.

Ah except you are thinking of them on an individual basis. I personally think that the new Nids strong point is their deployment options and the fact they can pack a lot of threats in tough packages. Sure the Tyrannofex may not be as mobile as a tank, but what do you shoot at when there are two on the table marching to you with a Hive Tyrant, a Trygon in the middle of your forces. Drop podded Zoans in your forces, and Gaunts that are outflanking/coming up the tunnel. Whenever I play mech or semi mech its ALWAYS the same target priority, with nids its different. If you ignore the tyrannofexs and go for the close up guys then you have some s10 guns pounding you the whole game. If you ignore the trygon and other guys in your midst you will get messed up in CC while you try to wittle down the tyrannofexs in a few turns.

I really like the new Codex, but I can understand some disappointment, but I think time will show the strength of the new codex.

And while I agree that Pyrovores won't make it into most all comers lists, it would be hilarious to pod the full 9 allowed in on a green tide or behind/flanking a Kan Wall list

Trust me guys...alpha strike is the way forward. Am working on a 2k competitive list and will post it up after I playtest it.

For friendly games it gets even easier. We have so much stuff that's designed with 1 specific thing in mind we have a real easy time building allcomers lists.

Lukus83 wrote:

For friendly games it gets even easier. We have so much stuff that's designed with 1 specific thing in mind we have a real easy time building allcomers lists.

As an eldar player id disagree that more specialized units makes an all comers list easier. I often find its easy to write up an army list with my marines, with the eldar you really struggle to fit enough to kill everything in there.

I personally feel the strongest side to the codex is the crazy deployment choices. We have the ability to put pressure on people right away, and from all kinds of angles. I think my nid army has 2 units that can outflank, and 3 that can deep strike. Which is absurd for 1500 points.

Hmmm, maybe it's just that I have experience with nid's only that I feel that way. I have never been tempted to sample a different army.

Cant wait to alpha strike my friends Mechdar. Cant run away from tyrannofexs in the front, and zoans in the back. OH LOOK HERE IS TRYGON! OUTFLANKING CARNIFEX BROOD??

TTTTTYYYYYYYYYRRRRRAAAAAAANNNNNNNTTT!

I think eldar may have the capabilities to absolutely bone the new nids. I could be missing something, but the bugs dont seem any more threatening then they ever were, and when we get our new codex they will be threatening nevermore.

So I did an inventory, and I only have 60 Gaunts and will probably have to buy more... Who ever said that about the last book? Man I love this book! Cruddace is now my favorite book writer, because the variety of good usable stuff in both this and the Guard book is just Awesome.

Aduro wrote:So I did an inventory, and I only have 60 Gaunts and will probably have to buy more...

And while you're purchasing your boxes of Gaunts, bask in the gloriousness that is 'Pendulum Game Design'.

Ahhhhhhh....... so serene.

I'm not buying Gaunts because they're better now. I'm buying them because I get to run with more of them thanks to the new Sugar Daddy Tervigons. I ran my lists with almost 60 Gaunts in the last book, never succumbing to the Nidzilla fad. I'm actually running More monsters in my new list than I did previously. I personally view it less that I Have to buy more Gaunts, and more that I Get to field more.

thekerrick wrote:Cant wait to alpha strike my friends Mechdar. Cant run away from tyrannofexs in the front, and zoans in the back. OH LOOK HERE IS TRYGON! OUTFLANKING CARNIFEX BROOD??

TTTTTYYYYYYYYYRRRRRAAAAAAANNNNNNNTTT!

How can carnifexes outflank?

Cant wait to alpha strike my friends Mechdar. Cant run away from tyrannofexs in the front, and zoans in the back. OH LOOK HERE IS TRYGON! OUTFLANKING CARNIFEX BROOD??

TTTTTYYYYYYYYYRRRRRAAAAAAANNNNNNNTTT!

The hive tyrant upgrade allows one TROOP choice to outflank, silly tyranids, outflanking good units is for guard

One of the Tyrant options allows them to cause a unit to be able to deploy through outflanking

edit: Beaten to the punch

Kroot Loops wrote:One of the Tyrant options allows them to cause a unit to be able to deploy through outflanking

One TROOPS unit, yes.

Course, outflanking a Tervigon, that's a different story.

Course, outflanking a Tervigon, that's a different story.

Forgot about that, it could be done

I think the nids would be much better if hive guard were troops, and came 5 to a brood. for 40 points each.

I bet Marines would be awesome if Terminators were Troops and only cost 25 pts a guy.

Haha I botched that one lol! Didn't see that it was troops only.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:I think the nids would be much better if hive guard were troops, and came 5 to a brood. for 40 points each.

Aduro wrote:I bet Marines would be awesome if Terminators were Troops and only cost 25 pts a guy.

QFT

I really hope you were not serious Shoggoth....

You must be new Aduro.

Did you know it's not proper tactics to want to use units that might be sub-par because you want to use them.

Didn't you know buying a Trygon or Hive Guard is only you doing so because of how awesome they are? Forget that nonsense about how models look. Don't you know GW made Spinefists 1pt more than FB to get people to have to buy like 14 boxes now if they want to run 180 bullet catchers?

I hope your sarcasm detector is working because I made that post as sarcastic as possible.

I admit the HG rules are nice as well as the models but my defacto choice for tank killing will be zoanthropes FOLLOWED by HG.

Defacto HQ is a HT. Defacto troops are Stealers with BL's. NOT Tervigons. Won't have a single Tervigon in my list. With the exception of catalyst I don't find it all that great, then again I don't find Termagants all that great. Gimme hormogaunts for small, cheap bugs.

So yeah Aduro. You are an outcast because you are buying models for their look or for a theme and not because GW has made your carnifexes and spinegaunts illegal. Oh wait, spinegaunts are legal in my codex, so are dakkafexes.

J/K Aduro. Nice to see one poster not jumping to certain units because math-hammer and game theory tell you they are must-haves but rather for aesthetic reasons.

Subtlety is certainly not your strongsuit 'Weaver.

Straw, however, clearly is.

I bought the codex at Lunchtime. It is the first Nid dex I have had.

I am thinking of putting together a 1,000 point army for Dakka Fest in August.

I like the look of the models, but the price put me off a bit. (£30 for a Trygon kit!!! )

In addition to Zoanthropes and T.Fex there's also Hive Guard to consider. They're much cheaper I gather, and the most dire threat isn't an armada of MBT's but mechanized, ie. troops in transports. With the multitude of deployment options, Nids have a good chance to box them in - or make them run away. A transport or IFV that drives fast is simply no threat. And then you've got CC on top of that. I'm pretty sure that they have more ways to handle Mech than before.

Gaunts getting cheaper isn't a bad thing either. I'd really like to hear how you intend to gun them down with your 30 bolters when they advance behind cover - you do play with cover, do you? - and have FNP...or was that 50 bolters?

Mattlov wrote:I know I'm going to enjoy dropping a 3 strong brood of Pyrofexes in a Mycetic Spore right next to an Imperial Guard Gun line and watch the squishies BURN.

The problem with that will be to find an IG gunline in the first place.

sirisaacnuton wrote:
First, it's anywhere from 50-100 pts more expensive than an IG tank. It has no pie plates/low AP options, is slower

Why would it be any slower than an IG tank?

can't fire all 3 of its weapons at once, and its weapons are horribly mismatched... 48" range S10, 18" S5, and a flamer?

Don't tell that any Obliterator (that ironically IS slower). Yes, the Oblit is much cheaper but it will also die to a single meltagun.

After all, for every Melta or Lascannon that could pop a tank but only wound a Tyrannofex, there are a dozen bolters or 2 dozen Lasguns that could eventually kill the T-fex and never scratch the surface of a tank (barring AV10 vs. Bolters, of course).

Why aren't those bolters gunning down little ankle biters?

Augustus wrote:
With my game experience with marine drop pods, outflanking genestealers and deep strike I don't think of the pod as a reliable delivery mechanism

I agree that Zoeys suffer from range and position issues but Drop Pods are not a good comparison. Some Drop Pods must come down and can therefore easily be evaded with standard reserve tactics. When the Zoey comes down, there's very probably a tank around.

Also, taking more than 2 Zoeys per unit is a waste of points, so maxing out on them is hardly the best option.

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:

sirisaacnuton wrote:
First, it's anywhere from 50-100 pts more expensive than an IG tank. It has no pie plates/low AP options, is slower

Why would it be any slower than an IG tank?

A tank can move 12" (or 18" on a road), or 18" (24" on a road) for a Hellhound or variant, or 24" for the skimmers. For situations where you'd rather move than shoot (1st turn Dawn of War, long way away in Spearhead, or just generally need to get somewhere else), the tanks are much more mobile than a thing that at best goes 6+d6". It's not a huge impact for long-range AT, but the Hellhound-gun on the T.Fex is not nearly as impressive on an MC as it is on a tank that can go 18" one turn then move 12" and fire the next turn.

can't fire all 3 of its weapons at once, and its weapons are horribly mismatched... 48" range S10, 18" S5, and a flamer?

Don't tell that any Obliterator (that ironically IS slower). Yes, the Oblit is much cheaper but it will also die to a single meltagun.

The comparison to Oblits is pretty good...especially as 3 Oblits is comparably priced to a T.Fex. But I think the big thing that makes the Oblits much stronger shooting-wise is the availability of the plasma weaponry...both have long-range AT, both have flamer options, but the Oblits also have fairly long-range anti-infantry, and the short-to-medium range anti-infantry is much stronger on the Oblits (3 TL S7 AP2 guns at BS4 absolutely dwarfs 4 S5 AP4 shots at BS3, and the comparison isn't even close if within rapid-fire range). It just seems like Oblits can make a much larger contribution, both from long range and up close, thanks to the PC and TLPG.

After all, for every Melta or Lascannon that could pop a tank but only wound a Tyrannofex, there are a dozen bolters or 2 dozen Lasguns that could eventually kill the T-fex and never scratch the surface of a tank (barring AV10 vs. Bolters, of course).

Why aren't those bolters gunning down little ankle biters?

I'm sorry H but if you got past your hate of everything GW for 30 seconds you would see that there are 2 main reasons that people have invented for units being taken or not taken.

1) GW purposely made Spinefists 1pt more to FORCE players to buy more boxes of gaunts to replace their already cheap bullet catchers with cheaper bullet catchers because GW only cares about money (again, apparently in every codex in the world other than mine spinefists are an illegal option FORCING players to give GW more money).

2) GW purposely made the Trygon better than Carnifexes to sell more Trygon models. Let's stick our fingers in our ears and not listen to the people saying they are going to take one for the awesome new model and not just for the rules.

That is all I have been reading from Tyranid players and why they are choosing or not choosing to use certain units.

So no it's not a strawman because it is the truth. I wasn't trying to be subtle, I even said so in that post. Read all the tyranid threads on dakka and other forums and it boils down to those 2 things I listed above.

I loved it when someone said the Codex was bad because the new Pyrovore fig had bad rules, then said the Codex was bad because the Trygon had good rules, forcing you to buy them.

Aduro wrote:I loved it when someone said the Codex was bad because the new Pyrovore fig had bad rules, then said the Codex was bad because the Trygon had good rules, forcing you to buy them.

Y'see, this is why I'm willing to give GW the benefit of the doubt and then some.

Aduro wrote:I loved it when someone said the Codex was bad because the new Pyrovore fig had bad rules, then said the Codex was bad because the Trygon had good rules, forcing you to buy them.

I don't think this Codex is bad though. I have the exact same issues with it as I do with the current Marine Codex, and I love the current Marine Codex. There are parts of it that boggle my mind - the Pyrovore's rules being chief among them (45 points for 1 WS3 Power Weapon attack, T4 and a 4+ save... armed with a flamer?), and the Carnifex's WS3 being insulting (and equal to the Biovore and Zoanthrope - think about that) - but any real issues are mostly fluff related (and most of those fluff issues are to do with there being damnable special characters in a Tyranid list).

Fateweaver - I don't hate this Codex. Do try to keep up son, lest you get left behind.

H.B.M.C. wrote:real issues are mostly fluff related (and most of those fluff issues are to do with there being damnable special characters in a Tyranid list).

That was the realisation I came to when discussing the fluff with a friend. I was explaining that is is mostly better --- much better --- but you get these moments from time to time that are just gut-wrenchingly awful. As I was explaining this, I realised these came down to the special character 99% (perhaps 100%?) of the time.

Most of my issues with the Codex come down to the WTF moments in the rules, such as the Pyrovore. I also cannot understand why the Lictor and Rippers got worse, when they were already awful. Does Games Workshop want to NEVER make their money back on Lictor models? Not to mention the blatant `lol we makes you buy moar modelz' moment, such as what they did to Spinegaunts. New models with awesome rules? Yeah, I will buy that and thank them for it. Please, sir, may I have more? Plain making equipment choices on old models awful, when there is no new kit, is where I draw the line. Personally, I only had 16 Spinegaunts anyway, so it does not overly impact on me, but it is the thought that counts, and their thought was not one I appreciated. I also think they went a little too far in reducing biomorphs, but at least it is not as bad as Codex: Chaos Space Marines. In general, I am under-whelmed by the book, and my swarmy list still sucks (you want to run a swarm? Take more MCs!!).