Tyranid close combat weapons • Do they work in conjunction with each other or separately?

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**nosferatu1001**

Wield = using, actively possessing

The 'nids simply have to own them. Are you saying a Digital Weapon is a close combat weapon?

You have still made an assumption, based on your knowledge of the previous codexes, that something that is not described as a close combat weapon and does not function as such requires something to explicitly states it "combines" with other items that are also not Close Combat Weapons.

You then simply dismiss the *rule* on Page 33 which states they do not use Close Combat Weapons. This is an army wide rule and as such any rules relating to special or normal CCW cannot apply to them.

Finally: "sigh"ing when someone has pointed out your fallacies is not exactly a great response.

**Lord_Mortis**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wield = using, actively possessing

Yes, are not Tyranids armed with boneswords actively possessing and using the abilities of said boneswords?

You then simply dismiss the *rule* on Page 33 which states they do not use Close Combat Weapons. This is an army wide rule and as such any rules relating to special or normal CCW cannot apply to them.

No, I addressed that. It's a fluff reason to explain why they never get an extra attack for having more than one close combat weapon. A Tyranid warior that takes a pair of boneswords does not gain an extra attack for taking two close combat weapons per the rule on page 33. It does not say any special abilities of close combat weapons are included in the models profile, just the extra attack is already included, and it does not say rules that apply to close combat weapons don't apply to Tyranid close combat weapons. That is what you are wanting it to say, but that is not what it says. You are reading more into the rules than what are actually there.

**kirsanth**

I find it amusing that people need to reference editions that no longer matter to prove a point.

The biomorphs under "Close Combat Weapons" do not fall into Special Close Combat Weapons -- AND they specify that they only need to be on the model using them to have effect.

**doubled**

I agree with Kirsanth, the biomorphs are treated more as wargear then acctual weapons, they cannot gain extra attacks, or different strength attacks at any point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
so I would say yeah, they could use both, a model with rending still gets to re-roll ones if it has scything talons.

**Lord_Mortis**

kirsanth wrote:The biomorphs under "Close Combat Weapons" do not fall into Special Close Combat Weapons -- AND they specify that they only need to be on the model using them to have effect.

And around in circles we go.....

Seriously, if you all want to say weapons list under "close combat weapons" aren't close combat weapons but weapons listed under "special close combat weapons" are special close combat weapons....

If you want to apply one rule to lightning claws and not the same exact rule to Tyranid close combat weapons....

If you want to take a rule that simply says Tyranids do not get extra attacks for being armed with 2 close combat weapons and say that it means something else entirely....

If you want to say a model with a Tyranid close combat weapon with special abilities is just using the abilities and not the weapon itself...

If you want to ignore the definition in the BRB of what a special close combat weapon is when it comes to the special abilities of Tyranid close combat weapons....

Well, I say good luck with all of that.

**nosferatu1001**

Lord_mortis - no, you ignored and dismissed it as fluff. That is entirely different. The very first sentence is a *rule* stating they do not use close combat weapons.

It then goes on to say that, because of this, they dont get plus one attack for 2 ccw - as they never HAVE two ccw, as they never use them.

None of the weapons are described as CCW or function as such, and you are told they never use CCW to begin with.

So, are you saying a Digital weapon is a CCW? Just curious to see if you are at least consistent in ignoring the rules.

**Lord_Mortis**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Lord_mortis - no, you ignored and dismissed it as fluff. That is entirely different. The very first sentence is a *rule* stating they do not use close combat weapons.

It then goes on to say that, because of this, they dont get plus one attack for 2 ccw - as they never HAVE two ccw, as they never use them.

Duh, that's because their teeth and claws ARE their close combat weapons! Just like a zombie's "grasping hands and slavering jaws" count as 2 close combat weapons.

None of the weapons are described as CCW or function as such, and you are told they never use CCW to begin with.

Really? Are we reading the same rulebook? Because models with claws and teeth count as having a normal close combat weapon! Not to mention that all the Tyranid close combat weapons are listed in their own section called "Close Combat WEAPONS." Simply because a Tyranid close combat weapon may seem like a piece of wargear to you instead of a weapon doesn't stop it being classified by the rulebook as a close combat weapon by being placed in a section called "Close Combat WEAPONS" instead of "Biomorph Upgrades."

So, are you saying a Digital weapon is a CCW? Just curious to see if you are at least consistent in ignoring the rules.

I have no idea what it is since all the SM ranged and close combat weapons are lumped together in one section simply called "Weapons." I know it must be some sort of weapon because it is listed there instead of "Other Equipment." At least I am not trying to claim that Digital Weapons are really armor instead of weapons based on something in their description like you are trying to claim boneswords aren't really weapons but biomorphs even though they are clearly listed under Close Combat Weapons instead of Biomorph Upgrades. Again, just because you feel something seems like a piece of wargear doesn't change it from being labeled as a Close Combat Weapon by the rulebook.

**Black Blow Fly**

At this point 40 votes to 4 is a very good indicator.

G

**puma713**

Lord_Mortis wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:You assume the previous rule wasnt redundant, therefore you have *not* addressed this - you have commited a logical fallacy. You have not proven a need for the rule in the current OR previous codexes, you have assumed a need.

If you pick up the current codex it clearly indicates they stack. No additional rule is necessary.

Sigh. I believe I have when I replied to this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:...but they are listed in the BRB as special CCW, and therefore *are* special CCW.

In addition it doesnt even matter if they ARE CCW, As it does not state a Tyranid ATTACKING with a Bone Sword ignores aremour saves, it states a Tyranid WITH them benefits.

This is the part you have yet to deal with....at all.

The BRB has lightning claws listed under "special close combat weapons." They are therefore special close combat weapons. We agree on this.

The Tyranid Codex lists Boneswords under "Close Combat Weapons" just like lightning claws are listed under "special close combat weapons." However, for some reason you don't think a Bonesword is a close combat weapon but a lightning claw is a special close combat weapon.

Again, the rules for lightning claws doesn't say a model attacking with a lightning claw gets to reroll failed to wound rolls. The model just has to wield it. Just like a Tyranid with Boneswords only has to have them with him. Both the model with the lightning claw and the Tyranid with the boneswords can use their foot to fight their enemies, both gain the abilities confered by the weapon.

The definition of a special close combat weapon, according to the BRB is: "...complex and powerful weapons that enhance the wielder's combat skills and confer bonuses, and sometimes penalties, to the models using them. The most widely used are listed below." Then it goes on to list power weapons, lightning claws, etc. These aren't the only special weapons, just the most widely used. So basically, a special close combat weapon is any close combat weapon that confers extra abilities to the model using it. A bonesword is listed under "Close Combat Weapons" in the new Tyranid codex. It has special abilities that it confers upon the model that has it that a normal close combat weapon, which in the Tyranid codex is claws and teeth, doesn't have. Thus, by the BRB definition, a Bonesword, and any other weapon listed in the Tyranid codex under "Close Combat Weapons" that has a special ability, is a special weapon. An implant attack, while it does give an ability in close combat, is not listed under Close Combat Weapons and is therefore not a weapon, but a biomorph. It may therefore be used in addition to the abilities of Tyranid close combat weapons.

According to the BRB, models with two special weapons must choose which one to use in the assault phase. Previous Tyranid books had a rule that allowed them to stack their weapons. The new codex lacks such a rule. Are boneswords and lashwhips close combat weapons? According to the Tyranid rulebook they are. Do they have extra abilities that normal close combat weapons do not? Yes they do. Does that make them special weapons according to the BRB? Yes it does. Do Tyranids have a special rule in the new book that allows them to stack abilities as in the past books? No they don't. Must they choose which special close combat weapon they are going to use in each assault? Yes they do.

I see you ignored my example above. Here, I'll repost it.

puma713 wrote:

Let's say I have Scything Talons and Rending Claws. And let's go with the theory that all Tyranid Close Combat weapons are "special weapons" and therefore, you must choose which one you use. I choose to use the Scything Talons. So, I can re-roll my To hit rolls of 1.

Great. Now, I look at the Rending Claws rule. It simply states, "Close combat attacks made by models with rending claws gain the Rending ability."

Okay, I hit with my scything talons. I reroll my 1's. Now, are those close combat attacks? Yes. Does my model have rending claws, even though he didn't use them? Yes. Can a model with rending claws count their attacks as rending? Yes.

Therefore, my scything talon's attacks are rending. Why? Because I didn't have to use Rending claws to obtain the bonus. I get the bonus simply by having the claws.

**Lord_Mortis**

puma713 wrote:I see you ignored my example above. Here, I'll repost it.

No, it was addressed with the post of mine you quoted. You have two close combat weapons with special abilities, thus they are special close combat weapons as defined by the BRB. According to the BRB, you must choose which weapon you are going to use in the current assault phase. So you either get your rending attacks or you get your rerolls, but not both, as Tyranids no longer have a rule that allows them to stack abilities.

You are defining "with" as meaning simply having the weapon on their person and not actually having to use it, with the weapon granting the ability regardless of whether they are using it or not. Are you consistent in all cases of where it states "models with X weapon receive X ability?" If so, then Nurgle Chaos Lords can use their poisoned attacks without ever having to roll a D6 and possibly suffering a wound....

So your argument solely depends on how "with" is properly applied, meaning simply having the weapon or actually using the weapon.

**Aduro**

So does that mean Vulkan is required to choose between using his Master Crafted, his Digital Weapons, and his Relic Blade, as all three are listed as Close Combat Weapons in the Codex?

**Gwar!**

Aduro wrote:So does that mean Vulkan is required to choose between using his Master Crafted, his Digital Weapons, and his Relic Blade, as all three are listed as Close Combat Weapons in the Codex?

No, he doesn't

**nosferatu1001**

Lord_Mortis wrote:Duh, that's because their teeth and claws ARE their close combat weapons! Just like a zombie's "grasping hands and slavering jaws" count as 2 close combat weapons.

Wrong. Read the RULE again. They do not use close combat weapons.

One more insult and I'll report your posts. UNLIKE a zombie they do not have a "counts as" close combat weapon. You even state the difference in your own posts yet do not see it - impressive.

Lord_Mortis wrote:Really? Are we reading the same rulebook? Because models with claws and teeth count as having a normal close combat weapon!

No, they dont. It states they do not use CCW. Please, stop ignoring rules and calling them fluff - as a quick suggestion: when formulating an argument ignoring rules is not a good start. You lose credibility.

Lord_Mortis wrote:Not to mention that all the Tyranid close combat weapons are listed in their own section called "Close Combat WEAPONS." Simply because a Tyranid close combat weapon may seem like a piece of wargear to you instead of a weapon doesn't stop it being classified by the rulebook as a close combat weapon by being placed in a section called "Close Combat WEAPONS" instead of "Biomorph Upgrades."

Except it does not function as a close combat weapon. As has been point out to you repeatedly.
Yet again you ignore something that disproves your argument. This isnt going well.

Lord_Mortis wrote:I have no idea what it is since all the SM ranged and close combat weapons are lumped together in one section simply called "Weapons."

Nope, it is listed under the section "close combat weapons" in the SM codex. Again, stop dodging - do you believe it is a CCW and therefore you must choose to use it?

Lord_Mortis wrote:I know it must be some sort of weapon because it is listed there instead of "Other Equipment." At least I am not trying to claim that Digital Weapons are really armor instead of weapons based on something in their description like you are trying to claim boneswords aren't really weapons but biomorphs even though they are clearly listed under Close Combat Weapons instead of Biomorph Upgrades. Again, just because you feel something seems like a piece of wargear doesn't change it from being labeled as a Close Combat Weapon by the rulebook.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. 3/3

1) there is a rule stating they do not use CCW.

Done, that is all you need - they never use CCW, therefore the CCW rules cannot apply to them. But given your entire argument is predicated on ignoring this I dont expect much.

with 90%+ disagreeing with you I would sugggest that you formulate a more persuasive, less ignorant of rules argument.

**Gwar!**

They may be armed with a CCW (Claws and Teeth), but they never actualy use it. Q.E.D

**Lord_Mortis**

Green Blow Fly wrote:At this point 40 votes to 4 is a very good indicator....

G

...that there are a lot of people not understanding the rules. Yes, good poll!

Aduro wrote:So does that mean Vulkan is required to choose between using his Master Crafted, his Digital Weapons, and his Relic Blade, as all three are listed as Close Combat Weapons in the Codex?

Actually, there is no "Close Combat Weapons" section of the SM codex, so I don't know where you are getting that they are listed as close combat weapons. But to answer your question, no, as his relic blade and his master crafted weapon are the same weapon, and we don't know what digiital weapons are classified as since they aren't described as a close combat weapon in their description and they are lumped together with ranged weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Lord_Mortis wrote:Duh, that's because their teeth and claws ARE their close combat weapons! Just like a zombie's "grasping hands and slavering jaws" count as 2 close combat weapons.

Wrong. Read the RULE again. They do not use close combat weapons.

One more insult and I'll report your posts. UNLIKE a zombie they do not have a "counts as" close combat weapon. You even state the difference in your own posts yet do not see it - impressive.

Lol. Tyranids do not march into the armory and get fitted with close combat weapons as such, their teeth and claws are their close combat weapons. It even says this under Close Combat Weapons: Claws and Teeth on page 83.

No, they dont. It states they do not use CCW. Please, stop ignoring rules and calling them fluff - as a quick suggestion: when formulating an argument ignoring rules is not a good start. You lose credibility.

Lol. See above. The rule is that they don't get +1 attack for being armed with 2 close combat weapons as this bonus attack is already included in their profile.

Lord_Mortis wrote:Not to mention that all the Tyranid close combat weapons are listed in their own section called "Close Combat WEAPONS." Simply because a Tyranid close combat weapon may seem like a piece of wargear to you instead of a weapon doesn't stop it being classified by the rulebook as a close combat weapon by being placed in a section called "Close Combat WEAPONS" instead of "Biomorph Upgrades."

Except it does not function as a close combat weapon. As has been point out to you repeatedly.
Yet again you ignore something that disproves your argument. This isnt going well.

**Black Blow Fly**

Mortis if you are in any way shape or form saying that a lash whip is a close combat weapon you are just flat out wrong. It cannot be used to attack enemy models in close combat. Think of it as the old doom siren. Basically what you are saying you would shaft a bug player because you think you have found a convenient loophole. Not cool, not cool at all.

G

**padixon**

Lord_Mortis brought up a good point. If the tyranid codex lists boneswords under "close combat weapons" then it is one. Just like a Lightning claw.

As it has already been stated
Bonesword (not an exact quote)
"it states a Tyranid WITH them benefits. "
and Lightning claw
"allows the wielder to re-roll any failed roll to wound"

So saying it isn't a special CCW, is like saying that someone with a PF and a LC can enjoy a re-roll to wound with the PF as the LC "allows" the re-roll to wound and not that you have to "attack" with it.

Obviously this is not so. If the Lash whip in question is *not* listed as a CCW, then the alpha warrior can benefit from both rules, but if it is then you have the situation of 2 special CCWs.

EDIT: I don't have the codex, so didn't vote, but it all comes down to whether a lash whip is a CCW like the bonesword. It may be just an item that adds a special rule Ala Wyche weapons (which are not CCWs at all but just a wargear that grants a special rule even though the name is mis-leading, which may be the case of the lash whip)

**Lord_Mortis**

Green Blow Fly wrote:Mortis if you are in any way shape or form saying that a lash whip is a close combat weapon you are just flat out wrong. It cannot be used to attack enemy models in close combat. Think of it as the old doom siren. Basically what you are saying you would shaft a bug player because you think you have found a convenient loophole. Not cool, not cool at all.

G

What I think is that, RAI, they meant for Tyranid close combat weapons to stack just like they have in the last two Tyranid books. However, RAW, they are close combat weapons, actually special close combat weapons by the definition in the BRB, and according to the BRB, a model must choose which weapon they are going to be using in the current assault phase, regardless of whether they don't "seem" like true close combat weapons or not. Oh, and btw, the old Doom Siren was a ranged attack weapon that had a special ability in close combat, so that isn't a good comparison.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

padixon wrote:If the Lash whip in question is *not* listed as a CCW, then the alpha warrior can benefit from both rules, but if it is then you have the situation of 2 special CCWs.

And that is the crux of it. Lash whip is listed under the section entitled "Close Combat Weapons" along with boneswords, crushing claws, etc.

**imweasel**

Lord_Mortis wrote:Actually, there is no "Close Combat Weapons" section of the SM codex, so I don't know where you are getting that they are listed as close combat weapons.

Weapons listed in a codex do not need to be listed as a ccw in the codex to be a ccw.

Lord_Mortis wrote:But to answer your question, no, as his relic blade and his master crafted weapon are the same weapon

So if 2 different special close combat weapons are combined into one weapon, the user gets to use both abilities and doesn't have to choose? Hmmm...

PM on how you think calgar's gauntlets work then as I don't wish to derail this thread...

**Gwar!**

padixon wrote:EDIT: I don't have the codex, so didn't vote, but it all comes down to whether a lash whip is a CCW like the bonesword. It may be just an item that adds a special rule Ala Wyche weapons (which are not CCWs at all but just a wargear that grants a special rule even though the name is mis-leading, which may be the case of the lash whip)

The Codex specifically states "Tyranids do not wield Close Combat Weapons".

Thus, you could then equip a Nid with 87 Boneswords, it doesn't matter, he will NEVER weild it, or use it, or do diddly squat with it.

Luckily, all the CCW Biomorphs have rules wording that make it very clear that just by having said Biomorph, the model gets the effect, even though they are not using the CCW (or any CCW at all).

**padixon**

Gwar! wrote:
padixon wrote:EDIT: I don't have the codex, so didn't vote, but it all comes down to whether a lash whip is a CCW like the bonesword. It may be just an item that adds a special rule Ala Wyche weapons (which are not CCWs at all but just a wargear that grants a special rule even though the name is mis-leading, which may be the case of the lash whip)

The Codex specifically states "Tyranids do not wield Close Combat Weapons".

Thus, you could then equip a Nid with 87 Boneswords, it doesn't matter, he will NEVER weild it, or use it, or do diddly squat with it.

Luckily, all the CCW Biomorphs have rules wording that make it very clear that just by having said Biomorph, the model gets the effect, even though they are not using the CCW (or any CCW at all).

If that is what it states, then I am sold.

**Lord_Mortis**

Gwar! wrote:
padixon wrote:EDIT: I don't have the codex, so didn't vote, but it all comes down to whether a lash whip is a CCW like the bonesword. It may be just an item that adds a special rule Ala Wyche weapons (which are not CCWs at all but just a wargear that grants a special rule even though the name is mis-leading, which may be the case of the lash whip)

The Codex specifically states "Tyranids do not wield Close Combat Weapons".

Thus, you could then equip a Nid with 87 Boneswords, it doesn't matter, he will NEVER weild it, or use it, or do diddly squat with it.

Not true. They could have 87 arms with 87 Boneswords in each one, but they will never get a +1 attack bonus for having more than one ccw. That is the rule. No more, no less.

If a Nid isn't "using" his bonesword, then he isn't "using" the ability of it either. If you believe they do, then does a Nurgle Chaos Lord get to use the poisoned attacks of his demon weapon without having to roll a D6 when he attacks?

Luckily, all the CCW Biomorphs have rules wording that make it very clear that just by having said Biomorph, the model gets the effect, even though they are not using the CCW (or any CCW at all).

Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?

**imweasel**

Lord_Mortis wrote:Not true. They could have 87 arms with 87 Boneswords in each one, but they will never get a +1 attack bonus for having more than one ccw. That is the rule. No more, no less.

That's only part of the rule. Using your 'vision' of the nid ccw rules, they can't use them at all.

I could have no other 'weapons' or 'biomorphs' other than a bonesword and I could not use it since nids never wield ccw's.

**Gwar!**

Lord_Mortis wrote:Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?

He never uses the Crushing Claws. Just by having the Crushing Claws, all his attacks (including the bonus ones) are at I1.

Furthermore, this is not stated to be optional, so it isn't.

**Lord_Mortis**

imweasel wrote:
Lord_Mortis wrote:Not true. They could have 87 arms with 87 Boneswords in each one, but they will never get a +1 attack bonus for having more than one ccw. That is the rule. No more, no less.

That's only part of the rule. Using your 'vision' of the nid ccw rules, they can't use them at all.

I could have no other 'weapons' or 'biomorphs' other than a bonesword and I could not use it since nids never wield ccw's.

Going in circles again. Tyranids' close combat weapons are their teeth, claws, and talons. It states this in the rulebook. But beat that dead horse all you want to.

**nosferatu1001**

Lord_Mortis wrote:Not true. They could have 87 arms with 87 Boneswords in each one, but they will never get a +1 attack bonus for having more than one ccw. That is the rule. No more, no less.

No, there is one rule, and one *consquence* to that rule.

The RULE is that Tyranids do not wield Close Combat Weapons. As a consequence of them not wielding close combat weapons they can never gain a bonus for wielding two.

Odd that.

Lord_Mortis wrote:If a Nid isn't "using" his bonesword, then he isn't "using" the ability of it either. If you believe they do, then does a Nurgle Chaos Lord get to use the poisoned attacks of his demon weapon without having to roll a D6 when he attacks?

He doesnt need to use the bonesword, the rules state he has to *have* a bonesword. A chaos lord is required to use the CCW they are armed with as it is a Special CCW.

Use /= Have

Lord_Mortis wrote:Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?

It does not have to use the Crushing Claws, simply having them adds +D3 attacks and makes your strike at I1, that is a consequence of possesion.

Additionally it is not listed as optional so it isn't. Really simple....

**Lord_Mortis**

Gwar! wrote:
Lord_Mortis wrote:Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?
He never uses the Crushing Claws. Just by having the Crushing Claws, all his attacks (including the bonus ones) are at I1.

Furthermore, this is not stated to be optional, so it isn't.

So then just by having a Plaguebringer, a Nurgle Chaos Lord has poisoned attacks without ever having to use the weapon itself?

**Gwar!**

Lord_Mortis wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
Lord_Mortis wrote:Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?
He never uses the Crushing Claws. Just by having the Crushing Claws, all his attacks (including the bonus ones) are at I1.

Furthermore, this is not stated to be optional, so it isn't.

So then just by having a Plaguebringer, a Nurgle Chaos Lord has poisoned attacks without ever having to use the weapon itself?

-Sigh-

No, because a Chaos Lord must use the Plaugebringer as a CCW to get the effect. Tyranids, however, have a special rule saying they do not ever use CCW, as well as their CCWs clearly stating that just by having them (rather than using them) gain the effect.

Please, try reading. It's good for you.

**nosferatu1001**

Lord_Mortis wrote:So then just by having a Plaguebringer, a Nurgle Chaos Lord has poisoned attacks without ever having to use the weapon itself?

No, as you must use the weapon in order to gain the effects of it, as the weapon modifies your attacks. Similarly you have no choice not to use it, as it is a special CCW so you must use it.

You're done trying very hard here arent you?

**Lord_Mortis**

nosferatu1001 wrote:He doesnt need to use the bonesword, the rules state he has to *have* a bonesword. A chaos lord is required to use the CCW they are armed with as it is a Special CCW.

Use /= Have

"No armor saves by be taken against wounds inflicted in close combat by a Tyranid with a bonesword."

"A model with a Plaguebringer has poisoned attacks that wound on a 4+..."

Using your understanding of the word "with," a Nurgle Chaos Lord has poisoned attacks simply by having the Plaguebringer. As a special ccw, the Nurgle Lord can choose not to use it and thus loses the extra D6 attacks. However, his normal profile attacks are still poisoned, as the rule says a model "with" a Plaguebringer has poisoned attacks. At least according to you guys.

Lord_Mortis wrote:Can a Carnifex with crushing claws choose not to use them in order to get the Iniative bonus on the charge? Or is it forever stuck at I1 simply by having the weapon (it isn't a biomorph, biomorphs have their own section entitled "Biomorph Upgrades") even if it isn't using them?

It does not have to use the Crushing Claws, simply having them adds +D3 attacks and makes your strike at I1, that is a consequence of possesion.

Additionally it is not listed as optional so it isn't. Really simple....

Yeah, if they weren't considered Close Combat Weapons, then I guess they wouldn't be optional. Too bad they are in a section entitled "Close Combat Weapons."