Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like plastic models as much as the next guy, but despair at the some of the recent WHFB kits with lock step marching poses, and fewer pieces. Sure, you can build a regiment more quickly, but all regiments begin to look the same in ways that the older, more part intensive kits never did.

If we are going to go that route, might as well be metal so I know my figures will last over time.

One problem i tend to have with recent plastics is that, ever since the plastic rat ogres, there have been a few that were originally virtually sculpted and they just tend to look wonky and too rounded in all the wrong ways.
My first impression of the plastic minotaurs is pretty much the same.
It seems like the stuff that's virtually sculpted and designed can't stand up to the stuff that's physically sculpted and then molded from the result.
(And i also wish gw would work more on encouraging their stores and affiliates to recycle sprue garbage, but that's another issue altogether.)

metallifan wrote:It's because the current GW primer is -made- to sit on plastic, thanks to ~90% of their stuff being made of it. If it was actually metal primer, it wouldn't flake or chip off every time something smacked into it.

Just another reason to chuck out Pewter minis from their line.

*cough* Army Painter Matte Black Primer *cough*

*cough* Krylon Black or White or Rust Red primer *cough*. $2.57 per can at Walmart *cough*. Only way that gaks ever coming off is with a file or sandblasting *cough*.

We don't have Army Painter lines in any of the stores here. And I don't use Krylon on my minis - it's too thick I find. Could just be those good old Canadian winters gakking with the stuff too, but whatever it is I've used it in the past and "Never again" is all I'll say about that >.<

You can get Army Painter through The Warstore, at least to Canadialand I'd assume.

Never a good idea to prime in under 40F weather. I follow the directions on can religiously. If it says don't use at less than 40F I don't because I'm sure the guys who made the stuff know what they are talking about.

I've never had problems with Krylon or Duplicolor or Rustoleum primers. Duplicolor is good if you get some of the "self etching". No matter how thick you spray it on it flattens itself out (and with the krylon sandable if it gets too thick in spots you can let it dry 15 minutes, grab some sandpaper and smooth it down or reprime if you went down to the pewter).

I've tried Armory. It's garbage. I've tried GW. It's garbage. Used correctly and in the proper setting can auto-primer is the best (well, 2nd best. 2 part airgun primer is the best but that requires good ventilation, an automotive spray gun and primer that costs about $15/pint) and proper HAZMAT gear.

Yes, Fate.
Armory is garbage.

Good thing I'm talking about Army Painter

I know. Just mentioning my experience with various brands.

I'm sure AP is good but I'll stick to what works for me.

Really, you gotta try the stuff. It's as good as Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer.

I like plastics for the same reason Belathane does.

If I knock a GK Termie off of the table it is without a doubt going to dent or shatter at every glue point. A plastic termie on the other hand is more or less likely to make a "tink" noise and bare a few paint chips at worst - at least from my experience thus far. Plastic for life! (Why did I collect Grey Knights.....? )

I love GW's plastics, I like the fact that the vast majority of the 40K armies I'm interested can be produced almost entirely in plastic (indeed, I think the only metal models in my planned Tau army are some Pathfinders and the Broadside railguns.

When I was building up my old Salamander army, the sheer breadth and interoperabilty of the various SM/CSM plastic kits made head and weapon swaps so simple, as well as many other little bitty conversions. I do like the heft of a metal miniature occasionally though, so I'd not want to see them disappear entirely.

Id have to echo the sentiment that plastics overall are easier to work and provide your own style to with some work. Whereas metal (for myself) tends to end up with alot of aggrivation and swearing before the model is iny useable shape. May have plenty to do with me being useless with superglue which seems magnitized to my fingers and any other surface it doesnt belong on, but without fail finds its way off the model.

Case in point that fething hive tyrant still sitting partially completed on my desk. Been at it a week now and it typically ends with me giving up in disgust with stuck together fingers and going to work on my IG or Goblin models. Plastic can have its irksome moments but its still more forgiving then its metal counterparts.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I love GW's plastics, I like the fact that the vast majority of the 40K armies I'm interested can be produced almost entirely in plastic (indeed, I think the only metal models in my planned Tau army are some Pathfinders and the Broadside railguns.

When I was building up my old Salamander army, the sheer breadth and interoperabilty of the various SM/CSM plastic kits made head and weapon swaps so simple, as well as many other little bitty conversions. I do like the heft of a metal miniature occasionally though, so I'd not want to see them disappear entirely.

You can actually make Pathfinders pretty well in plastic, barring any rail rifle armed Pathfinders.

They'll be in plastic for the next Tau release.

Cool, my thread's back. I'm the "strider" from the OP.

I didn't quite intend it as a metal vs plastic kind of a post. Though I suppose it's the natural result.

One thing that I've become more and more aware of is how I value models. And by that I don't mean which models are worth more to me, but the actual mechanisms and factors that play into such decisions.

I've been a big GW basher for probably about a decade now. They used to get 100% of my hobby dollars, but out of the 50-100 ish a month I've spend over the last 3 years, all they've gotten is a copy of Black Reach and some Glade Riders.

When I read about Jervis' report that two thirds of GW customers are not active gamers, things really clicked for me. GW's business model suddenly makes sense. And a lot of the things they've done that I interpreted as acting against their customers were interpreted incorrectly.

So now when I look at a given GW model, I ask myself what it's used for. Do I value it as something to assemble and paint or something to use in a larger hobby which includes gaming?

The way I operate, it's the second one. But then I take a look at how things fit into the larger game under WFB or 40k and it's dismal. These miniatures that I think look awesome don't represent a tangible part of the game. Unless I get lots of them. And then the price for a functioning game element starts to add up. The individual miniature becomes less and less valuable.

But say I use a different set of rules. Like Warmachine or Hordes or whatever. In that set of rules, a full cavalry unit is 5 models. And they make up a large amount of the force. Suddenly those Glade Riders are a lot more appealing.

And then I start comparing them to the other models I might use to play the same role in the game. The Legion of Everblight Raptors. And suddenly GW's prices look good. After exchange/shipping, the PP stuff is pushing over $75 for me. But I can get a box of Glade Riders to my door for less than $35. Or I can order just the five I need individually off eBay sellers for $26 after shipping.

So they arrive. And I pulled them out and started working on them. What a pleasurable experience after only working with metal miniatures for an entire year. Building them went really well. For basing them, I pulled out the awesome 50mm large Warmachine style bases. I did the whole cork and sand and ballast thing and then primed them up.

I use walmart's in-house brand of flat white. Works great.

And as of right now, 3 of the 5 are partially painted. I just need to read up on painting horses, paint the horses base coat, apply Les's awesome washes and then highlight.

I spend so much time frustrated with GW rather than simply enjoying the plastic kits. For me the rules were key. They devalued most of my miniature collection and require more and more with every passing release. Their rules are meant to sell more models and they really stand in my way of enjoying the very models they try to sell.

So I chucked them and now am going to regularly buy GW plastics for use with other rules. And maybe I'll wait on the offhand chance that GW remembers that during their time of growing into an international company, their rules increased the value of models rather than decreased them. Right now it's Privateer Press that's going through record multi-million dollar growth by making a game that makes their models seem valuable to their customers.

Either way, my Glade Riders are partially painted and will likely see action tomorrow. I'm going to ask if any of my gaming buddies have a digital camera, because the effect of the round large bases on the cavalry is fantastic compared to how the Glade Riders look on their old style rectangular regimental bases.

Kanluwen wrote:You can actually make Pathfinders pretty well in plastic, barring any rail rifle armed Pathfinders.

Okay, I get that you can convert them from FCW's but what other bitz do I need to start trollign for over on the usual sites?

metallifan wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:I prefer metal. I like the plastics alot and they can be more affordable (Non-GW), but metal just has a sharper, crisper look to it. And I think metal takes paint better than plastic.

I haven't had so much as a single flake of paint chip off any of my plastics when they get handled a little rough.

The same can't be said for any of my pewter stuff. Or anyone else's for that matter - going off of some of the armies I've seen at the FLGS

metallifan wrote:It's because the current GW primer is -made- to sit on plastic, thanks to ~90% of their stuff being made of it. If it was actually metal primer, it wouldn't flake or chip off every time something smacked into it.

Just another reason to chuck out Pewter minis from their line.

Good for you.

I was speaking about my preference and you're speaking in absolutes. Both materials have drawbacks. I don't see the point in arguing about it.

Crimson Devil wrote:

metallifan wrote:

Crimson Devil wrote:I prefer metal. I like the plastics alot and they can be more affordable (Non-GW), but metal just has a sharper, crisper look to it. And I think metal takes paint better than plastic.

I haven't had so much as a single flake of paint chip off any of my plastics when they get handled a little rough.

The same can't be said for any of my pewter stuff. Or anyone else's for that matter - going off of some of the armies I've seen at the FLGS

metallifan wrote:It's because the current GW primer is -made- to sit on plastic, thanks to ~90% of their stuff being made of it. If it was actually metal primer, it wouldn't flake or chip off every time something smacked into it.

Just another reason to chuck out Pewter minis from their line.

Good for you.

I was speaking about my preference and you're speaking in absolutes. Both materials have drawbacks. I don't see the point in arguing about it.

Good old misinterpretation of tone. Gotta love text-based conversations

I'll jump on the plastic bandwagon.

Conversion and assembly is easier, no freaking pinning, plastic glue holds and dries FAST, no super-glue on your fingers while waiting for a hand to stick to the wrist joint, etc, etc.

The only exception would be when I can get my hands on the old Space Marines with no arms and backpack, but have head, torso, and legs. I prefer the looks of those to the new armors.

Bit torn here. I'm getting increasingly addicted to conversions, and they all seem to involve at least some metal parts. The Hellpit Abomination I've been working on for example, uses three different kits, and apart from the base is entirely metal.

Yet I've been building up my Tyranid army this week, and I was very nearly reduced to tears by the sodding Hive Tyrant and Deathleaper. I pin them, I pack the join with Greenstuff, let it dry, glue it, and still the bugger falls apart, which is highly aggravating. But oddly, I had much the same hassle with my Raveners, as for some reason the arms wanted to be held in position whilst they dry!

Overall, I do prefer plastic as they allow me far more scope for converting, and the work comes along faster, which is good for me given my rather depressing attention span! I'd far rather crash on with the next section, than repeat the decapatation of a Carnosaur! So in short, I think metal models will always have a place, but as plastic advances further and further in terms of quality (have you seen the Cold One Knights? SEXY!) that role will continue reducing.

Plus with plastic, I don't have to mess about filling gaps with Greenstuff!

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You can actually make Pathfinders pretty well in plastic, barring any rail rifle armed Pathfinders.

Okay, I get that you can convert them from FCW's but what other bitz do I need to start trollign for over on the usual sites?

That's pretty much it

I've seen a metal bit that was a tattered cloak used to good effect as a camo cloak.

When I was making my world eater army the plastic zerkers were great to work with. It only took a couple of minutes with a scalpel to do all kinds of hand/limb swaps and fun conversions. Stick a penny under the base and they don't fall over if you breath at them. Plastics all the way!

My daemon prince, however, is really heavily converted and it would be a shame to not have a big heavy model that won't get through airport security and will explode like a grenade if dropped. If I put so many hours into a model, I want it to be heavy.

One thing against plastics (especially if buying second hand): People using plastic cement. If you are doing a rubbish stick job, why would you use an industrial fusion joint?

I posted before on plastic thread I and i shall say again... plastic is FTW!

As a tau player the majority of my units are plastic, which i am very greatful, which they are great for building, gluing and converting. I've been having the guts for doing tau crisis suit conversions as of late. First a simple arm movement.. then arm movement, twin-linked missile pack and a knee movement. Can't wait til i get my next crisis suit on the operation table...

What i seriously dread is not pure metal models.. but hybrid metal-plastic models. Tau broadsides are a prime example of that.

The rail guns are all but impossiable to keep steady and will break on a drop of a hat. The feet also add pressure on the leg joints which if you drop your broadside, expect a plastic leg join broken in 1/2. Happened to me a few days ago, luckly plastic glue fuses it back together.

One very important thing i would like to bring up would be plastic blisters!

How would you do plastic blisters? Have they done pure plastic blisters before? Would plastic blisters sell? Would plastic bilsters be upto a high quaility? If the quaility of plastic blisters would be equal or MORE than space hulk detail level, how much would you expect to pay?

I thoroughly enjoy the plastics.

I recently converted some Commisars to have Pig Iron heads (to go with my IG Assault Platoons).
While converting and modelling is one of my joys, it took for ever to remove the heads and powerfists.