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While "The Flood" is a terrible piece of literature--it still pales in comparison to "Multilaserz!!11!" Goto's works.

What I dislike about the Halo novels is that essentially, none of it is really canon, as you don't hear ANYTHING about the other Spartans, and in fact the game itself insinuates that MC is the last Spartan.

Then Reach came out, and I was a little interested, but that's the only reason why.

I was always under the impression that in Halo 1+2, MC is under the assumption he's the last of the Spartans.

Cryonicleech wrote:What I dislike about the Halo novels is that essentially, none of it is really canon, as you don't hear ANYTHING about the other Spartans, and in fact the game itself insinuates that MC is the last Spartan.

Then Reach came out, and I was a little interested, but that's the only reason why.

It's all canon. The other SPARTAN-IIs who returned to Earth between Halo 1 and 2 were called away to investigate Onyx just after the Covenant invasion started, which is why they aren't mentioned in H2.

Admittedly it's a little disappointing that the games have so far shied away from referencing events in the extended universe, but that doesn't make them non-canon all of a sudden. I think the idea is that you shouldn't need to have read a book to understand an event in a game. But it's all pretty much consistant within itself. In some of the older works you do get things that don't jibe with the current state of the universe - hunters having spines, for example - but I don't think that's because it's a "bad" story, just a growing one.

Personally, Halo is just my kind of space opera, regardless of whatever faults it may have.

Halo brought a simple, intuitive FPS control scheme to consoles. The first game had an excellent story with high replayability on single player. While the quality of the single player experience in latter games dropped, the multi-player improved considerably. It also sold a load of copies, and many were to kids new to gaming. The games we love most are the games that first introduce us to gaming styles - basically whatever we played when we were 10 years old or thereabouts.

I never really had much of a problem with Halo, nor do I understand all the broiling hate people have for it. I really like the multiplayer, even though I hate playing FPS games on consoles with a passion, and despite the pitifully short campaign ODST was the most fun I've had playing a co-op game with my brother in a while. I was also really impressed with the fact that they got actors from Firefly to do the voices of some of the characters for the ODST campaign.

I mean it's not great, but I don't think it's a big steaming pile of "fail", either. As far as fanboys and screaming 12-year-olds*, though, that happens with EVERY game.

*Online gaming is a lot more fun when no one can talk...

I thought Halo was a very good FPS, and I'd played a lot of them before I ever touched it. I also didn't start playing it until after Halo 2 was released, so it wasn't hype that made me love it.
No, Halo had a good story in and of itself. It had very fun gameplay, some iconic enemies, and awesome multiplayer too. Halo 2's story was far from being bad; it's just the fairly short length and cliffhanger that make people think it's bad. And Halo 2's multiplayer was the most addictive multiplayer I'd ever played, until I got CoD4. Halo 3 also had a great story. A lot of people complain about MC's attachment to Cortana, but you seem to forget that he basically had another person living in his head. (didn't he have her for most of his life, too?) Is it any wonder that he might be a bit attached to someone that had effectively been closer to him than a siamese twin for a large portion of his life? And yet people think it's about Cortana being a 'female'. Think with your brain, not your 'head'.

I think a lot of people just hate Halo because it's so popular. Because their friends with X-Boxes wouldn't stop talking about it. Maybe even because they sucked at it. Or it could be that they expected Jesus to leap out of the screen and beat them with the Awesomehammer while they played, and the great gameplay and intriguing story just wasn't good enough for them.

*spreads arms wide* Now, here cometh the firestorm...

Seems a fair assessment to me. Obviously not everyone is going to like it, and those that don't are understandably annoyed somewhat by everyone else saying how great it is. That's my theory anyway - it just seems quite hard to believe that an objective reviewer could come to the conclusion that Halo was "bad" - bland, run-of-the-mill, average maybe, but "bad" seems like an unfair assessment.

Cryonicleech wrote:What I dislike about the Halo novels is that essentially, none of it is really canon, as you don't hear ANYTHING about the other Spartans, and in fact the game itself insinuates that MC is the last Spartan.

Then Reach came out, and I was a little interested, but that's the only reason why.

******SPOILER WARNING******* ****STOP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE NOVELS****












In the novels, you hear a LOT about the other spartans, and how some survive Reach being destroyed (and are rescued by the master chief himself), and three others are on an extended mission elsewhere.

Unfortunately, I only played through Halo 1, and have never played the single player missions of Halo 2 (and never owned Halo 3). So I don't know what the video game insinuates... I know the MC thinks he's the last Spartan, but since he rescues some others off of Reach, that's obviously not the case.

Reach happens before Halo 1, so it is possible that the other spartans die or go MIA (BTW - Spartans are never recorded KIA - only MIA ) before the start of Halo 1.

I know that a lot of them are killed in the initial stages of the war though.

The Halo developers have spent a lot of time and effort to make sure everything makes sense across all their products in the Halo universe.

Kanluwen wrote:While "The Flood" is a terrible piece of literature--it still pales in comparison to "Multilaserz!!11!" Goto's works.

Sidstyler wrote:I never really had much of a problem with Halo, nor do I understand all the broiling hate people have for it. I really like the multiplayer, even though I hate playing FPS games on consoles with a passion, and despite the pitifully short campaign ODST was the most fun I've had playing a co-op game with my brother in a while. I was also really impressed with the fact that they got actors from Firefly to do the voices of some of the characters for the ODST campaign.

I mean it's not great, but I don't think it's a big steaming pile of "fail", either. As far as fanboys and screaming 12-year-olds*, though, that happens with EVERY game.

*Online gaming is a lot more fun when no one can talk...

You do realize that Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, and Alan Tudyk did voices for the Marines in Halo 2+3 and even Halo Wars, yeah?

I was more impressed that in Halo 2+3, the guys at Bungie actually made Sergeants Cobb, Wash, and Reynolds.

SilverMK2 wrote:Reach happens before Halo 1, so it is possible that the other spartans die or go MIA (BTW - Spartans are never recorded KIA - only MIA ) before the start of Halo 1.

I know that a lot of them are killed in the initial stages of the war though.

The Halo developers have spent a lot of time and effort to make sure everything makes sense across all their products in the Halo universe.

Yes, in the novel the others Spartans go down to the surface of Reach just before the Covenant glass it, and before the events of Halo 1. However, the Master Chief comes back AFTER the events of Halo 1 and rescues some them (I forget how many, but it's less than 10).

Again, I don't know where Halo 2 & 3 fall into this chronologically, since I didn't play through the story :-/

Halo 2 + 3 take place after the events you just described.

Right... so having only played through the first one, I know he thinks he's the only Spartan left during that campaign...

But doesn't he know there are other Spartans alive during Halo 2 & 3?

Sorry for my ignorance about those here...

Why is HALO popular?

Because it introduced the First Person Shooter to a whole generation of gamers who either lacked the money to purchase a PC, or who didn't want to learn how to build or update a PC or tend to any of the other maintenance requirements of a PC, in order to play FPS games prior to HALO.

FPS games were already old hat to the PC generation when HALO came out, but for millions of noobs it was a whole new experience.

"Wow, have you seen this game HALO where you can run around and shoot stuff?" says the HALO noob.

"Yes, *yawn*," says the PC gamer who already has gone through DOOM, DOOM II, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, Medal of Honor, Half Life, Counter Strike, Quakes I, II, and III, Unreal Tournament, etc.

HALO is dumbed down FPS play to speak of the game mechanics.

The world-building which takes place in the series is the best part IMHO. Bungie does story pretty well, but Halo 3 shat the bed for story. The campaign was tacked on and resolved nothing. There still would have been huge numbers of Covenant ships left. I don't buy that ALL of the Flood followed the humans to the Ark such that the Flood was now defeated again.

Bleh.

Hardly the first console fps Cairnius, I know PC boys like to think they hold dominion over the humble shooter, but they have been on consoles for a fair bit, and tbh its not exactly rocket science is it.. point a weapon on screen and shoot.

I'm sure Goldeneye fans (and I'll be honest I'm really not one of them, hated the game) would have words with you on Halo being the first decent fps which didn't require a PC. Although I did love Doom on my N64, PS1 and even now as Downloadable content on the 360.

Its also funny as the game most PC gaming friends waved at me back then as the best ever fps 'Half Life' came out the day before Halo Combat Evolved on the system with a larger fan base (PS2) and was stuffed sales wise.

The Halo series since has smashed its sales over the years on all formats, so Bungie was doing something right.

I do think alot of it was the story, a massive part folks seem to forget is the music, the music in Halo is quite stunning in places, and great mostly through out all three games. Has a real I'm taking part in a movie quality about it as well.

Also when you have the option of a playing either a Super-enhanced Marine character or a Scientist, we know where a lot fo the younger gamers are going.

Oddly I think there might be something to what MasterDRD is saying above as I still have never played Half Life, my PC mates put me off with the constant 'Its AweZome!!' maybe one day I'll have a go.

I will agree that 3 was not the best story It could have been, especially near the end. A real pity as I was one of the few (well according to what I read on forums) that didn't mind the ending to 2.
However even with that sad point, over the three games the one thing the story did get right, was the feeling of an epic tale and that also helped in capturing the thoughts of many of its fans.

Half-Life is a good game, as are the expansions (though Blue-Shift is almost more of a spoof at points - it still sticks to the tense action and puzzle solving of the other games).

HL2 is great too, as are EP1 and EP2.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:words

Don't put words in my mouth - I said that HALO introduced a generation of gamers to the FPS genre. I said nothing of it being the first.

GoldenEye didn't have nearly the impact on the industry that HALO did. It might be a smaller installed userbase than the XBox, it might be that the gaming industry wasn't as huge when the Nintendo 64 was in circulation so there wasn't as much advertising, who knows. GoldenEye is certainly one of the gems of the N64 and most shooter fans will have played it, but it wasn't the same as HALO in terms of bringing the FPS truly into the hands of console gamers en masse.

DOOM on N64 was a port, and hardly up to the caliber of the original PC version, both in terms of how smooth it ran, and it certainly was "old news" when it came out. HALO was the first major FPS to be released solely for a console, and it was above and beyond anything else which had come before in that medium.


Half-Life is cited as one of the most innovative FPS games ever due to the fashion it relayed story events in-engine as opposed to through cutscenes, creating a more cinematic and smooth experience. HALO had a similar effect on console FPS gaming in that the story was just as important as the gameplay. It was also very cinematic, which dovetails into a discussion of the value of the score nicely.

Cairnius wrote:
Because it introduced the First Person Shooter to a whole generation of gamers who either lacked the money to purchase a PC, or who didn't want to learn how to build or update a PC or tend to any of the other maintenance requirements of a PC, in order to play FPS games prior to HALO.

From that statement I read as you where suggesting most folks on consoles hadn't played fps' before, you said Introduced, that means the first game they played of that genre. I was calling you on that as I think you are wrong.

Fps had been around on consoles well before Halo, even if they where just PC covers, as you said Halo was probably one of the first major successful fps that had been designed for the consoles first, but it hardly introduced all of us who had been playing consoles through out the late nineties to fps games.

I do think the sales of the PS1 greatly increased the number of gamers and interest into console gaming, and then the PS2 and xbox carried that along, Halo helping to guild shooters to the place there are in console gaming today.

Thus I'd agree the number of players who where fresh off the bat into gaming during 99-2000 may have been grabbed by Halo, (and would explain why Goldeneye didn't do as well as games on the next gen of machines) but I disagree that it has anything to do with anyones ability to buy a PC.
I'd say for most people who had a PS2 or Xbox they barely considered the PC to be much of a games machine at all and wouldn't have even thought about trying to purchase one to play a fps.


Oh and yeah I do know I sorta countered my own point with the last bit, but I'm going on the basic idea consoles gamers probably doubled from PS1 period over to PS2/Xbox, so lots of us had played fps before and halo wasn't anything new to us either, but I would agree that a fair few would be fresh gamers and Halo was their first. It's a complicated position to argue from, no?

How many times are we going to have this same discussion, I'm gonna avoid this like the plague.

I think its on a 4-6monthly cycle atm, need some kind of peace accords, these Halo pro/con fans aren't ever gonna get along.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I think its on a 4-6monthly cycle atm, need some kind of peace accords, these Halo pro/con fans aren't ever gonna get along.

I don't know why I shouldn't be able to enjoy Half-life and Halo equally.

Trying to find Half life mentioned in the quote of mine you noted.. can't seem to find it Cheese.

I was actually referring to those pro - for and con - against Halo in that last post... my issue with Half Life is mine own.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Trying to find Half life mentioned in the quote of mine you noted.. can't seem to find it Cheese.

I was actually referring to those pro - for and con - against Halo in that last post... my issue with Half Life is mine own.

No dude, I was pointing out that the other side of the Halo argument tend towards other big FPS titles, mainly Half-life.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with that.

Cairnius wrote:Why is HALO popular?

Because it introduced the First Person Shooter to a whole generation of gamers who either lacked the money to purchase a PC, or who didn't want to learn how to build or update a PC or tend to any of the other maintenance requirements of a PC, in order to play FPS games prior to HALO.

FPS games were already old hat to the PC generation when HALO came out, but for millions of noobs it was a whole new experience.

You're forgetting the number of PC gamers who like Halo. Just thinking of my PC gaming friends, well over half, probably closer to 3/4 would think of Halo as an absolutely classic first person shooter. It is true that most of the best FPS are PC titles, but that doesn't mean only the PC can do FPS.

There's also a lot to be gained from the situation the xbox is in. The PC is typically set up in the bedroom or home office, playing it is an isolating experience. The x-box is set up in the television room, so lots of people can watch or take turns playing. This means an x-box game like Halo can be a lot of fun even if it doesn't have the high resolution of a PC title.

HALO is dumbed down FPS play to speak of the game mechanics.

You talk of 'dumbed down' as an attack and that's a mistake. Clean, simple design is seen by many as a strength. Isn't Doom still a lot of fun?

Bleh.

Do you really have that much emotion invested in a computer game franchise?

Why is anything truly popular? Halos a great game. people just get mad because the games they think deserve recognition dont get it. i might go make a thread. Whats with all the hate for halo.
Halo isnt going anywhere for awhile. get used to it.

Few things to note about Halo

the orginial Halo was meant to be PC only, it garnered a lot of hype while still in production stages, so Microsoft bought bungie to make Halo an Xbox exclusive to capitalize on the hype.

The story line for Halo mimicked that of a book, I think the title was "Ringworld" I recall an article in a PC gamer maginze I used to have that the entire basis for the first halo game seemed to be lifted directly from that novel, with the only substantial change being names.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
My opinion on Halo:

most games tend to get better with sequels, Halo is unique in that it has gotten worse.

The first Halo was IMO a landmark game, smooth fun gameplay with great graphics (for the time) in a shooter that anyone could pick up an enjoy, at the time it came out other shooters were all super fast paced... Unreal tournament or Quake style games.

I have many fond memories playing Halo with friends. Halo 2 tried to expand on the Halo 1 experience but just couldnt quite get it, I had bought an Xbox by this time and purchased Halo 2 in leu of Halo 1, assuming like most other games for it to be better than the original, after I beat the single player game twice I stopped playing it, where as with Halo 1 I played the entire campaign maybe 10+ times without even owning an Xbox. only 1 "scene" from halo 2 was fun to replay, and the multiplayer aspect just wasn't the same.

I hold Halo in high regard as a great game, however halo 2 and 3 have both been downhill slides. Part of me wants to think that the coorporate backing of Microsoft, with all the money they can pour into the game has clouded the purpose and design that was inherent and critical in the first game.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Trying to find Half life mentioned in the quote of mine you noted.. can't seem to find it Cheese.

I was actually referring to those pro - for and con - against Halo in that last post... my issue with Half Life is mine own.

No dude, I was pointing out that the other side of the Halo argument tend towards other big FPS titles, mainly Half-life.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with that.

Ah aye, yeah, and no worries, just threw me with the quote is all. I had been making the comparrison in the post before, but as I said there it was more of a personal thing, although I do know unfortuantley that is a common situation folks disliking one for the other.

I do think one day I will try half life and probably love it, horror styled shooters tend to be my bag baby.