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Honor Guard are amazing are you kidding?
They cost 680 points with upgrades, but hey they look good doing it.

Actually, HG are salvagable if you equip them "right" (aka cheaply). Run them in a squad of 5 with a Banner and RB on the Champ and you have a 225 point squad that can implode a lot of units if you choose your targets correctly. They're not as flexible or point and click as TH/SS Termies, but they have some nice benefits (12" rerolling morale/pinning bubble, Frag grenades, transport options, and sweeping advance). That being said 90% of the time, you're better off with Assault Termies.

The Honour Guard are better than Terminators against non-Fearless opponents because they can engage in Sweeping Advances, I2-3 opponents in cover thanks to Frag Grenades, and they don't take up an Elite slot in the Force Organization Chart.

Keep the responses up.

With that said, I want to know the most underrated, not underused.

HG are fun to play, but I find them hard to use competitively. Same with command squads.

HG are the non-scoring Nobz of the Smurfs. They have tons of potential. If you run them full out, (relic blades, banners, auxiliary grenade launchers, etc..) then they cost upwards of 1000 pts. However, they don't die and they kill everything equally well. Of course, your opponent with 1000 pts of fire warriors will spam firepower at you... but, they're so much fun!

I'd go with devestators because every seems to hate on them, but they're pretty damn good.
i'd also say assault marines everythinks seems to think they're garbage

Dreadnoughts are uderrated (at least at my flgs)

I think devastators are a bit expensive. Maybe a small reduction in the weapons would be good. I do like to run them with 4 RL's.

Vanguard vets with jump packs

interesting choice. Why so? I believe that they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy overcosted.

pdawg517 wrote:I think devastators are a bit expensive. Maybe a small reduction in the weapons would be good. I do like to run them with 4 RL's.

QFT. Once you see the points cost on Long Fangs for Wolves, it's clear why Devs aren't that great. Fangs get cheaper weapons, (technically) cheaper soldiers, and they can split fire between two different targets as long as the Sergeant is alive. Plus, Fangs can take 5 weapons, where Devs can only take 4 at max. That fifth heavy weapon can make a huge difference.

Deves are not expensive, they already get discounts on some heavy weapons.
The only overpricing is the lascannon.

Why to Long Fangs get that lovin'...? Because the squad size never surpasses 6 unless a Wolf Guard or IC joins them.

So they sacrifice defense for offense.
Vanilla Devs are pricier because they have the option of going for a more defensive squad with the flexibility of combat squadding at max size.
______________________

As others have voiced, ThunderFire Cannon. It's highly functional and is pretty much like the Long Fangs, trading defense for offense.

I'm gonna say dread's.... I never see anyone with dreads anymore!

this is not a sarcastic thread

unless your local meta is dredless

Its true, I don't see dreads at my local meta either. I see vindis, razorbacks, a lot of rhino-based antics, but never any dreads anymore.

I haven't the faintest clue why that is... A MM Dread in a pod can be a gamechanger.

As for my vote, I'd say chronus. Ignores shaken or stunned results, gets bs 5, all for 70 points? stuff him in a pred with lascannons sponsons and snipe all game.

According to the internet, the most underrated unit is:

Any model that cannot hold a melta gun.

Bah-dum, tish!

I had a game with lootas VS TFC a while back, only the opposite happened, TFC dropped airburst rounds on the lootas, scored 3 hits, and >16 wounds with no cover to wipe the squad out. (marines had first turn btw)

The TFC can be mean...but it is indeed squishy.

I would say Vangard Vets with jump packs
I play with a guy who uses 5 with PW/SS and they cause huge levels of carnage whenever they show and use there "Heroic Intervention" [usaly on Turn 2]

By the time the enemy realizes the threat the TFC is, its has more than earned its points back! Most of the time.

I think the TFC is a fantastically underrated unit, and that improves its effectiveness. Having your enemy not deal with a threat because he thinks it isn't a threat is a nice tactical advantage.

Sanctjud wrote:Deves are not expensive, they already get discounts on some heavy weapons.
The only overpricing is the lascannon.

Squad Size
- Devastators: 90 points for 5 models (4 Marines + a Sarge) but can take up to 5 additional vanilla Marines for 16 a pop.
- Long Fangs: 90 points for 6 models (5 Marines + a Sarge) but cannot take more models. Total reliance on decent saves to protect the unit, or killing everything that poses a threat to it.

Weapons (Cost)
- Devastators: 15 points for a HB, MM, or ML. 25 points for a PC, and 35 points for a Lascannon. Can only take four heavy weapons.
- Long Fangs: 5 points for a HB, 10 points for a ML or MM, 20 points for a PC, and 25 points for a Lascannon. Must take heavy weapons (Although really, why bother taking the squad if you don't fill those slots with HWs?)

Special Rules
- Devastators: Can give one model BS 5 each turn with a Signum. The leader must be alive, although with several ablative wound Marines this is very possible.
- Long Fangs: Can split fire between two units - thus avoiding spending Lascannon shots on horde or blasts on vehicles. The leader must remain alive.

Cost Comparison: (Identical loadouts, for the benefit of the doubt taking only 4 Fangs and a leader)
- Devastators: 5 Marines (4 + Sarge) = 90 Points
- 2x PC (50 points)
- 2x Missile (30 points)
Total: 170 points

- Long Fangs: 5 Marines (4 + Sarge) = 75 points
- 2x PC (40 points)
- 2x Missile (20 points)
Total: 135 points

It's not much of a difference, but it's there. Personally, I've never seen Devs used by vanilla Marine players, but both Wolf players at my FLGS use Long Fangs on a regular basis. Your point is valid, though - Devs are way more resilient, featuring 5 extra wounds. If you pay the extra 80 points for them, that is. Personally, I see the Fangs as being the better unit, as they are slightly cheaper and deadlier than the Devs (And the ability to split fire is just fantastic).

RxGhost, I totally agree with you. That is what can make it survivable. ( And a 3+ save in a ruin).


35 pts is a HUGE difference. You can do a lot with 35 pts.

@Locclo:

I was not talking about long fangs. Their role in the list is very different hence the different pricing.

Long Fangs are pretty much the ONLY standing infantry heavy weapons...so it makes sense they are cheap and get the extra hvy weapon to make up for it, and that the lower squad maximum makes then need to have different balancers.

As to my point of being cheaper already, I was more pointing towards CSM who still have to pay 20 points a pop for a ML as opposed to the 5 point discount SM get.

Anyway, the Devs are in the middle of the pack IMO, and the people crying about over expensive Devs just really doesn't make sense to me...but there is alot of whiners about a multitude of things, so I'm not suprised at the least .

But I Really like lascannons and think missile launchers look

Sanctjud, you make a pretty good point. I'm not saying that devastators are completely over costed and unusable. I use two squads in my planetstrike defense list. I do think that a small (5pt) reduction in weapons would be great. Especially with the Lascannons.

An interesting tactic I have seen with Devs before was 4 MM's. Set them up and there is a 24 inch no vehicle zone. I prefer 4 ML's because of the tactical duality they have. Maybe sprinkle in a couple LC's if running more than 1 Dev squad.

I have to agree with TFC being underrated. However, after helping a friend assembly his TFC I'm not sure I want to go through making one for myself.

Kavyaan Shrike + 10 Vanguards w/ jump packs and 2x LC.... Fleet veteran assault marines with 4 attacks on the charge, along with Shrike's rending stuff? I use them as an "ally" in my BT army..

PsiOmega wrote:I have to agree with TFC being underrated. However, after helping a friend assembly his TFC I'm not sure I want to go through making one for myself.

DingDingDing

we have a winrar.

the TFC model is a terribad pain in the ass to assemble. If they were available in plastic I might have bought one (even though I play Space Wolves, I would just have it because I like the aesthetics)

Even being tough to assemble, one of my friends has 4 of them, painted and all, and his tournament lists always include at least one.

In Apoc the TFC formation that gives the overwatch ability is just way overpowered.

Good unit, very underrated, hard to assemble model.

I love the firepower that the TFC is capable of putting out.

something that you have failed to mention in the Long Fangs / Devs debate is the ability of 10 devs with 4 heavy weapons to be split into combat squads. Thereofre being able to split their fire. And only taking up one heavy support choice. Personally I think that devs are great with 4 ML and they are a lot more survivable than longfangs, that die with a little bit of concentrated firepower their way. As for the most underrated unit, I cant say the TFC because they are becomming more and more popoular over here as people are finding that they are just awesome. I would say thet one of the most under rated units in the book are the captains and the masters they are a great HQ, cheap and all round good, with invul and decent stats. But people just love their special characters...