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Being more of a club gamer, I can't help but think, "Geez, the internet (or tournaments) are full of...." - Fill that in for yourselves.

This might be a surprise, but some people go to tournaments to play against a variety of new players and spend a day playing their favourite hobby...

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss...

Since 2 of my armies are rarely seen I explain some things once.

I explain how an act of faith works the first time I use it when playing sisters and I explain how some of the items work when playing DE since no one has any idea of their rules.

Ketara wrote:I won't go into specifics unless they enquire, because

a)this is a tournament, and if they make a mistake, its good for me.
b)I can't be bothered to explain every little nuance of how my army plays in a comprehensive breakdown.

Giving your opponent a detailed tactical breakdown of your entire army is handing them a massive advantage, because you can be sure they won't do the same for you. I don't the exact ins and outs of every army out there, but I know enough to play a game well. If I make a mistake, I mentally note it for next time. That's fair play in my book.

This.

For example. Aside from the odd 'proxy' game here and there I've never had a serious match against Necrons. I do know how WBB works however, plus how Tomb Spyders and Resurrection Orbs alter WBB slightly. I also know how the Living Metal rule works. I don't, however, know the exact stat line of an Immortal; but I know enough about the army in general to not get surprised during a match.

I would have though that in a tournament this level of knowledge was practically mandatory, if you're trying to win that is.

I'm a SM player, so most people are pretty familiar with my rules/units. However, if I'm running something "different" such as Calgar, Honor Guard, TFC, etc, I always tell my opponent how it works and how it applies to them. (aka "Just so you know, I can use Calgar's ability to ignore your PBS's leadership ability.") Tournament, friendly game, it doesn't really matter. I don't want to have an enjoyable game go down the crapper because my opponent fell into a "gotcha" he didn't know about.

If my opponent doesn't want to do the same for me, that's fine... I'm not too proud to not ask him about every single unit in his army. If I'm facing an army or units I'm not familar with, before we even get started, I'll ask him to give me a rundown while I'm skimming over their codex entries.

Gornall wrote:I'm a SM player, so most people are pretty familiar with my rules/units. However, if I'm running something "different" such as Calgar, Honor Guard, TFC, etc, I always tell my opponent how it works and how it applies to them. (aka "Just so you know, I can use Calgar's ability to ignore your PBS's leadership ability.") Tournament, friendly game, it doesn't really matter. I don't want to have an enjoyable game go down the crapper because my opponent fell into a "gotcha" he didn't know about.

If my opponent doesn't want to do the same for me, that's fine... I'm not too proud to not ask him about every single unit in his army. If I'm facing an army or units I'm not familar with, before we even get started, I'll ask him to give me a rundown while I'm skimming over their codex entries.

+1 good post sir

Indeed, +1 from here too ,

Even tho I have been playing since 85 , My brain cannot remember all the crap it has seen and had go thru it.

I will bloody ask about things, even now, I would consider it bad form if I was supplied only a bit of info and only to find an "ahha" during a turn.

That player I would , in fairness not be my first choice as a rematch later.

Gamesmanship, It means something.

Arander wrote:If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Well, that depends on if you see tournaments as some sort of 'Elite Gamers Club where only the BEST are allowed', or if you see them as a great opportunity to meet and play different people.

I'm inclined towards the latter....

I'd clear up anything that does odd stuff before hand, but otherwise I would probably just respond if asked.

Although to be fair I probably needed to swat up on my own army at the 40K doubles in Jan. It wasn't until the final (sixth) game on the Sun and I faced a Demon/CSM combo where the Demon player was also a avid Ork player.
That It was pointed out to me that the Stormboyz go forward the extra D6 rolled to see if a boy dies on a one.

Played all weekend and not done it once until that point.

If it's a casual game, like most of my games are, I'll tell them anything I think is relevant, like the no-extra-penetration-dice component of Living Metal if I see him deploy meltas toward my monolith, or the warscythe in general if he comes at me with SS/TH termies.

There are rare cases where I'm playing some smug, trash-talking (not in a clearly humorous way) donkey-cave of a player. In that kind of grudge match he's getting nothing from me unless he asks.

I do - i don't ever want my opponent to be 'suprised' and be like WTF and then whine about it.

"I told you ahead of time - you knew it"

So fair game.

It's been a while since I've played in a tournament but when I did I didn't volunteer much for sake of time but of course I don't play uncommon armies either.

In friendly games I will explain a units abilities if they are new or if it's a unit you don't see alot. For example I have good friend that whose only eldar opponent is me and I had never taken harlequins against him before. And if any unit needs some explaining it's harlequins.

One thing I forgot to mention is that for a friendly game, I might remind my opponent during the game (like if he's about to shoot at Harlies from across the board). However, in a tournament, after I give the full disclosure at the beginning, I don't offer anything else unless asked.

I like to remind my opponents of stuff, just because even the hardest veterans forget stuff from time to time. Also, it helps me remember, because many's the time I've forgotten that a certain unit has Furious Charge, or something like that.

I ask if my opponent has any questions about my list before the game.

I answer any questions they have before and during the game.

I don't expect anything more from them.

If I have questions about your army, I'll ask. If I don't ask but you tell me anyway, I'll think highly of your sportsmanship. If I don't ask and you don't tell me... until it becomes relavent and I've just screwed myself with my ignorance... well, ignorance SHOULD hurt. And it IS a tournament - I don't expect anyone to make sure I'm fully up on their army rules; that's part of my job as a tournament player.

At least under these circumstances, it's just the pain of a lost game. There are many other circumstances where the consequences of ingnorance hurts a LOT more!

And if I'm just there to play some new people, then why should I care if not knowing cost me a match? After all, I'm just there to play new people, right? It's not like I'm there seriously trying to win the tournament, right?


EDIT: Although if I ask and you DON'T tell me until after I've screwed myself... that will reflect in my opinion of your sportsmanship as well.

Another vote for learn the hard way. There is a reason I own pretty much all the books for the various armies (missing a couple of 40k ones) and that is so I can 'know my foe'.

Now that is not to say I'd just claim them, when asked it is polite to let them see your Codex/Army book so they can read it themselves, rather than have it paraphrased.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Arander wrote:If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Well, that depends on if you see tournaments as some sort of 'Elite Gamers Club where only the BEST are allowed', or if you see them as a great opportunity to meet and play different people.

I'm inclined towards the latter....

You may be inclined towards the latter but the foremost purpose of the tournament is to find a winner. Of course they want you to have fun and meet new people but if that was the purpose they would just have an open gaming day. Competition is the point of tournaments and it is the responsibility of the player to know his opponents list. If there is anything you do not know or want clarified because you sort of remember it then you should ask.

Now if I asked a question and my opponent did not tell me I would think he was an ass hat. But I do not expect my opponent to take 15-20 minutes of his own time breaking down every rule and unit he has and how it applies to my army. That is my job to figure out.

I don't think you ever need to tell your opponent special rules before the game.

In friendly games I think it isn't bad to do especially if the person is somewhat of a nooby, but in tournaments you should be generally familiar with the rules. Now, I do think that if someone asks about a rule, you should tell them it. Like if your opponent is Dark Eldar and has night shields on his Raiders and you don't know what they do, you can ask him to explain a rule or see the rulebook. I think that is appropriate.

In a tournament I always ask if people are familiar with SoB and if they are not i give them my codex and a brief outline of how Faith, Angelic Visage, Holy Hatred, etc. works and, I'll answer any questions they have about my force. Faith especially is an easy thing for someone to muddle up, and i don't want to win a game just because my opponent thought he could march his terminators safely into my gunline before realizing that i had AP1 Bolters and Flamers.

I do expect my opponent to do the same though; and if not, I'll ask them a series of increasingly obvious questions to see if i can make them lose their cool

If it's an opponent who I know knows the rules, then I probably won't unless they ask. But I need to know them to know that. If it is someone I don't know, I'll try to go over things, either at the beginning of the game, or at least before I use it, but try is the operative word here, as it's easy to forget stuff during the course of a game.

I will take the time to warn opponent's if they're about to stumble into something out of the ordinary that is indicative that they don't know what's going on. That's just how I'd rather play.

This is both for tournaments and friendly play. I see no reason not to be friendly at a tournament.

I keep Army Builder set up to print the special rules and weapon profiles ith my lists. When I'm at a tourney I state what I'm doing and why. Otherwise I don't tell them anything unless they ask especially since my roster is available with special rules. Being a somewhat new (barely a year of play) player there are still things I havn't seen. If I see something new I simply ask what it is and what it does then go from there.

Redbeard wrote:This is both for tournaments and friendly play. I see no reason not to be friendly at a tournament.

I agree. However, it's a fine line at a tournament to say "you might not want to do that..." if you think they've forgotten about a special rule. For straight-forward things such as shooting at Harlies, I would be cool with telling my opponent or having him tell me that they're probably completely out of range. But for more subtle things such as a unit being within fleet range of a Soulgrinder/Defiler, it can come off the wrong way like maybe you're trying to play mindgames with them or something.

Usually i say ask what you want to know and i'll tell. But if it's someone learning the game, i tell em' what can do what before the game starts.
I don't play tournies so i have no input on that subject.

I would gather from the posts that the general opinion would be ask if he doesn't know your rules and if he doesn't give him/her the rundown on your stuff. otherwise don't mention it unless it's an extremely odd unit like SC's and the like.

I tell them everything, and ask if they have additional questions. I put a model from the unit on top of the transport when it's embarked, I line my Reserve units (representaive models, at least) up so they can see what's in reserves. I don't hide anything. I'm going to beat them because I beat them, not because they didn't know some special fiddly little rule about my army. On the flip side, I tend to wave off their explanations, as I expect ME to know my opponent's special rules. Guess I'm silly that way.

And yet, I seem to do well in tourneys.............

This seems like it would be an excellent subject for one of them there fancy dakka polls...

The beginning of my games starts with this:

1. My opponent and I exchange lists.

2. I say, "How well do you know orks?"
2a. If they say, "Very well" I say, "Alright, let me know if you have any questions."
2b. If they say, "Not so much" I say, "Alright, do you want me to walk you through my list?"
2b1. I walk them through my units and what their highlights are.


3. I ask my opponent about each of the units in their list that I'm unclear on, where melta weapons/lascannons/etc are, specific questions about powers/loadouts that I'm unfamiliar with - I'm not afraid to demonstrate my ignorance, and people are happy to answer questions about their list in my experience.

I don't expect my opponent to tell me the secrets of their army and the keys to defeating them. I got spanked by dual landraider Vulkan/Redeemer nastiness Saturday during game2 of my GT - I didn't know what the list could do, or how to play against it; I thought those were lascannons on the side of his landraiders, not flamers (among other things) but I learned some valuable lessons, and won't make those mistakes again. Isn't that about the best way to learn? Touch the stove and get burned?

Dashofpepper wrote:The beginning of my games starts with this:

1. My opponent and I exchange lists.

2. I say, "How well do you know orks?"
2a. If they say, "Very well" I say, "Alright, let me know if you have any questions."
2b. If they say, "Not so much" I say, "Alright, do you want me to walk you through my list?"
2b1. I walk them through my units and what their highlights are.


3. I ask my opponent about each of the units in their list that I'm unclear on, where melta weapons/lascannons/etc are, specific questions about powers/loadouts that I'm unfamiliar with - I'm not afraid to demonstrate my ignorance, and people are happy to answer questions about their list in my experience.

This.

at tournaments

usually i exchange lists read theirs and if they are using something uncommon i usually ask for their codex and read the rule myself rahter than asking them.

i answer anything they ask.

in friendly i still dont always tell every rule, but only for the sole reason of making people learn. I have found if i just tell them it goes in one ear and out the other, if i burn them with it they remember the next time.

but i'm also trying to make the people in my area better players.

Seeing how rare my Dark Eldar are I've actualy thrown all of my army's special rules onto a 1 page print out that I give to a player along with my army list. This include explanations for things like Wych drugs, Wych weapons, rules for the horrorfex, how dark lances work, how agonizers work, ect. It does a couple things, it means the other player isn't having to look everything up in my codex and and has all the rules with them later so they know I didn't try cheating.