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Yeah i don't really mind younger players, hell i'm only 18 myself, they bring a youthfull spark to this game (well at least some do) that the game is ALL about having fun and enjoying the hobby.
I do agree with the annoyance of having some unattended kid grab your stufff and accidently break the land raider you spent hours working on. There should be something in place, but i can't imagine their being something without GW creating a less friendly enviroment

I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

I'm 6, most people my age aren't that bad. It's those under fours that should be restricted from being in GW stores.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Why do some parents...become parents?

Man, do we have to link a video for you or something?

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

HERETIC!

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

Why do you even game then if you think it's that bad.

I'm 40, now, but probably the single biggest factor in my getting into gaming, of all kinds, was that when I first went into Games of Liverpool, at the age of 11, and found they had a "War And Fantasy" department, the staff and customers were friendly, welcoming, and respectful, despite my young age. They gave me & my parents great advice, steered me towards the right games, & welcomed me back as I got older.

I don't think that parents who use shops as free childcare for hours on end are very responsible. But I really don't like the idea that when my 9-year-old son does finally head into a GW (so far we've only played at home, or at the local games club) a load of the older gamers are going to assume that he's going to trash their minis, or that he won't know the rules, or that he'll be loud & obnoxious. The hobby is supposed to be about being welcoming, not exclusive. If you want an exclusive hobby, go join a posh golf club, or something.

I'm only four, but I tend to keep to myself and not disturb others who are playing warhams. I think it's mainly an issue of the 2's and unders really.

no it is not!
it's those bloody one year olds!
Ruining our two year old rep.

And so forth, I think enough posts have been made by people illustrating how an arbitrary age limit won't do anything to eliminate dissonance within a gaming shop.

I think a limit on weight, perhaps personal or based on your collection would eliminate far more than an age based restriction.

I'm only one, but I had to play a foetus yesterday in a tourney and he was really annoying.

And so this thread gets hijacked by people taking the .

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

This could indeed make a good point but I would have to disagree (mind you I am under 18). More often than not you find kids playing because "oo I got a gun and we are fighting... this is so cool.. etc" where you tend to see adults in the hobby for modeling/painting. Of coarse many adults are in the hobby for gaming purposes, but they take it on a more serious level. Yes they are playing with toy soldiers... but its a hobby and as such is meant to be something you do in the mean time. Youll also notice fluff wise, its more often than not, something that little kiddies should be reading to far into, since at times it can become quite unsuitable (slaanesh anyone?) for them. But with the point you gave, you could also say the entire star wars series should be for children and every one else is intruding there too. Its meant to be something that is enjoyed by a large variety of age groups.

OT: I definitely notice that is has become a day care center for children as my local GW. Luckily many months back the GW made a "club" for children called the "White Shields" and they have all of their own organized events and such which tends to keep most of them occupied and away from most of the events that mature players take part in. The only downside is that they have many many events and for what ever reason (I have no idea what the staff is thinking on this one) they decide to give immensly pristiges prizes at all this event, and by that I mean they give quite a bit of forgeworld and bigger GW kits to these kids whom will more than likely make an even bigger mockery out of the awsome models/hobby than they already are... Needless to say there are always some chilren who actually are mature and are usually more accepted.

Well this is a barrel of fish isn't it I don't have any problem showing younger players how to play but there is a limit on my generosity.
Dropping your kids off anywhere with no supervision is wrong.
About 2 months ago a grandmother brought her grandson in to the store, because it was a hobby store, and he got interested in the games on the shelf.
The employees told her that it was game night and he could see a game played at around 6pm that is when gaming starts the boy was about 8ish.
They came back and he got to play a game his grandmother stayed in the store giving him suggestions about where to move things and had a great time.
Then there is this other boy parents leave him there for three hours a very disagreeable little that kept picking up peoples figs and talking loudly his parents where told it will not happen again.

80 year old here. I'm thoroughly sick of all these so called 'adults' playing games at the age of 18. In my day, a game would be sitting on a brick wall trying not to move! When I was 18, I was out earning the bread for the family by catching rabbits and skinning them. Nowadays all these youngsters don't know what's good for them, sitting about playing with their pew-pew toys. They should learn to grow up and support a family.

Isn't baseless discrimination fun?

A quick question to all those who have commented.

If you were a parent would you leave your child unattended in a store full of people you didn't know, staffed by people who are not legally allowed to look after your child for you?

Well on the topic, my FLGS gets the kids to ring their parents and get them picked up. One mother took away their phones, so the FLGS owner rang security on the basis that he had abandoned children in his store. They weren't seen again.

In all honesty that would depend. How old is the child and how responsible he/she is. If I had like an 8 yr old I would definitely not leave him/her in there. however if they 16/17 or so, and I know hes mature/responisble enough to be around other people whom I dont know. Then yes I would let them stay.

Justicar Alaric wrote:

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

Why do you even game then if you think it's that bad.

I didn't say it was bad. I'm just self-aware enough to realise that most adults don't do what we do. It's a hobby for young teenagers.

Which isn't a problem necessarily, but let's not pretend that GW is an exclusive Gentleman's Club, and that the brandy and cigars are coming out at the end of turn 6.

Albatross wrote:

Justicar Alaric wrote:

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?

Why do you even game then if you think it's that bad.

I didn't say it was bad. I'm just self-aware enough to realise that most adults don't do what we do. It's a hobby for young teenagers.

Which isn't a problem necessarily, but let's not pretend that GW is an exclusive Gentleman's Club, and that the brandy and cigars are coming out at the end of turn 6.

You've given me a fantastic idea for Formal Fridays at my LGS.

Well, you're all talking really young kids, below the recommended age. Parents put their kids in the store because the child will make their time shopping hell. How would you like to walk around with a crying child while trying to have a good time? I get frickin' pissed when a baby cries for more than ten seconds on a train or bus.

I've got five kids, and I wouldn't leave them in a shop unattended.

If you choose to have kids, it's your responsibility to look after them not just dump them when you want to have fun.

I think some people are confusing the issue of younger people being able to play and enjoy the game(s), and parents essentially abandoning their children for long periods of time.

Of course, people of any age should be able to play the game, assuming that they are aware enough to be able to play it without loosing interest and going on a rampage through the store or something.

However, a parent should not just drop a (younger) child off in any store and expect the store to just look after the child. Especially if the store is not set up to deal with that, or if the parent does not inform the store that is what they are doing.

If the store has a child friendly event (such as the white shield club that someone mentioned), then a parent can reasonably expect to be able to leave their child under the care of the store staff, assuming that their child is interested enough in the game to be able to spend several hours there.

If however the store is just doing regular store things, a parent should not expect to just be able to leave their kid hanging around for hours at a time, especially if the store is not aware that they "should be" looking out for said child.

At the end of the day, if a store does not run a child orientated club or session, where they are actively looking after children for an extended period, they should not be expected to look after children and more so than they would look after any other person in the store. If your child leaves the store because they are bored, or because they went to look for you, or because some person enticed them away with the promise of sweets or free models, it is not the stores fault, any more than if you left said child alone in a park, or in a clothes shop, or a resturant.

If I were a store owner and noticed a young child had been left unattended for an extended period of time in my store, I would certainly ask the child if he was with someone, when he was expecting to be picked up, etc. Given enough concern, I would call security, or get the child to call their parents/grandparents/etc to come and either look after them, or pick them up.

Greed is killing the franchise, what a surprise.

SilverMK2 wrote:I think some people are confusing the issue of younger people being able to play and enjoy the game(s), and parents essentially abandoning their children for long periods of time.

Of course, people of any age should be able to play the game, assuming that they are aware enough to be able to play it without loosing interest and going on a rampage through the store or something.

However, a parent should not just drop a (younger) child off in any store and expect the store to just look after the child. Especially if the store is not set up to deal with that, or if the parent does not inform the store that is what they are doing.

If the store has a child friendly event (such as the white shield club that someone mentioned), then a parent can reasonably expect to be able to leave their child under the care of the store staff, assuming that their child is interested enough in the game to be able to spend several hours there.

If however the store is just doing regular store things, a parent should not expect to just be able to leave their kid hanging around for hours at a time, especially if the store is not aware that they "should be" looking out for said child.

At the end of the day, if a store does not run a child orientated club or session, where they are actively looking after children for an extended period, they should not be expected to look after children and more so than they would look after any other person in the store. If your child leaves the store because they are bored, or because they went to look for you, or because some person enticed them away with the promise of sweets or free models, it is not the stores fault, any more than if you left said child alone in a park, or in a clothes shop, or a resturant.

If I were a store owner and noticed a young child had been left unattended for an extended period of time in my store, I would certainly ask the child if he was with someone, when he was expecting to be picked up, etc. Given enough concern, I would call security, or get the child to call their parents/grandparents/etc to come and either look after them, or pick them up.

That was a very well thought out post, which I think perfectly outlined what's going on in this thread. Consider a friend request to be winging its way to as you read this.

Ketara wrote:That was a very well thought out post, which I think perfectly outlined what's going on in this thread. Consider a friend request to be winging its way to as you read this.

Haha, thank you

I tend to ramble when I post off the top of my head and forget the point I was trying to make, but I managed to stay on topic for once with the above post, so thanks

I have always hated having young kids in the stores because a majority of them are loud, annoying and are just horrible to play against. I do not care if they have a basic grasp of the rule and do not throw a tantrum everytime each rhino blows up. Most of those parents that use a FLGS as a child care center I think they are horrible parents.

This issue can be taken care of really easily. The owner of the FLGS can make it a strict store policy of no childern under 12 years old with out parental supervison. The horrible thing is that I do not want to play against someone's 10 year old as a 33 year old and table the kid in three or less rounds.

Hi all.
To answer the original question, because the parents are irresponcible, and GW plc have decided to market thier products as toys. (as its easy to sell toys to kiddies. )

When Games Workshop was focusing on making great games the majority of thier customers were gamers.(As the games covered a wide range of subjects and age groups, GW gamers covered a very wide demographic.)

So irrespective of age the GW customers had age appropriate games to play.
And as such the gamers needs were met without conflicting with other age brackets/ playing styles.

But as shortsighted greed made GW corperate try to market thier core games to appeal to everyone, then the wide demographic that was dispersed among a dozen different games, are now all crammed to gether trying to play the same game in vastly differing ways!

What compounds this is that GW try to infer that GW games are all thier is!(The GW Hobby tm),
So gamers that SHOULD have left GW core games and moved onto somthing more suitable for thier needs, get stuck participating in a branded hobby that is not thier ideal, perhaps?

GW is '...in the buisness of selling toy soldier to kiddies...' according to Tom Kirby .(Chairman and ex CEO, of GW plc.)

I prefer to buy games systems from companies that are in the buisness of makling the best games they can.But this is just my personal preference.

As I can pick game that I like to play, from a range of games that are focused on a particular type of gameplay , they attract like minded gamers.

I have no problem with gamers of any age.As long as they posess respect for other people, and maturity level that means they dont 'blubber/whine ' if they loose.

I DO have a problem with children under the age of (legal ages may vary from contry to country,)being left unsupervised by a responcible adult in a public place.

If they are not allowed to watch a PG film on thier own,then they are not old enough to be abadoned in a shop!

A responcible retailer would NOT allow minors to be left unsupervised on thier premises...

TTFN
Lanrak,

Because most people are idiots? That includes people who go to gaming stores during the day and expect children to be absent...

Unless you're genuinely worried about the kids safety, get over it, a little inconvenience isn't going to kill you.

Apologies if that sounded harsh. Certainly bad parenting is a factor here, but to me there seems to be an easier solution. If you want a decent game, go into the gaming store late in the afternoon when the kids have been taken home. Or ask the store about dedicated gaming nights. Or go to a gaming club. Or invite friends around and play at home.

ComputerGeek01 wrote:First of all I love the pattern that is evolving here... The 16 yr old says it's the under 13's ruining everything and the 12 yr old says it's everyone under 10. It's just great how everyone younger then you is to blame including the OP. Is it possible to judge others on an individule basis? or are we all lumped into 'us' vs 'them'?.

Eactly. Everyone knows if you're under 80 you've no right to darken the doors of a gaming store, or tell me your cute youngin theories of life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Justicar Alaric wrote:A quick question to all those who have commented.

If you were a parent would you leave your child unattended in a store full of people you didn't know, staffed by people who are not legally allowed to look after your child for you?

Ooh a serious question. What age when you say "children?"