Of Melta and Meltabombs

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**ChrisCP**

don_mondo wrote:He said meltagun, so I assumed it was planning on shooting. So there..........

Argh Nooo, was rushing so only read melta, not the rest of the word! Fair cop ^_^

**IggyEssEmManlyMan**

Vanguard27 wrote:So,

My 2 cents on this

Reading the special rules on living metal on the Necron Codex

"Living Metal: The Monolith is made of living Necron metal which is not only self-repairing but is capable of adapting its structure to resist incoming attacks. Attacks which count the targets Armour Value as being less then it really is is (Such as bright lances and blasters) do not do so against the Monolith. Similarly, weapons that get additional Armour Penetration dice (such as chainfists, monstrous creatures, or melta weapons) do not get the extra dice against the Monolith. Ordnance weapons still roll 2D6 for AP and select the highest Score"

Based on this, it doesn't specify a specific special ability. It just says any weapon that gets "additional AP dice" and give several examples of some (and some that don't exist IE. Blasters).

My interpretation would be any weapon that gets additional (IE, more then 1) doesn't get it, no matter the special ability or reason it gets it.

You forgot to mention the part where it says "any weapon attacking the monolith". Since weapons do not attack, any weapon with st+2d6 ability works on monoliths. Because weapons do not attack, units holding weapons use attack using them. RAW ftw

**Vanguard27**

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

You forgot to mention the part where it says "any weapon attacking the monolith". Since weapons do not attack, any weapon with st+2d6 ability works on monoliths. Because weapons do not attack, units holding weapons use attack using them. RAW ftw

What I typed for the rule is the exact wording, I did not leave anything out (cept changing Armour Penetration to AP

It says

"resist incoming attacks" and "Attacks which count" and "weapons that get additional AP"

**don_mondo**

Well, the counterargument that gets thrown out is "But those aren't additional dice, there what it comes with......". Yeah, like a chainfist comes with 2d6 normal. Anyways, there's the newer reprint version which has an additional line........... The line that says something to the effect that this means all you ever get is the unaugmented strength of the weapon and 1d6. Covers all those 'not additional dice but get more than 1d6' weapons.

Vanguard27 wrote:
IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

You forgot to mention the part where it says "any weapon attacking the monolith". Since weapons do not attack, any weapon with st+2d6 ability works on monoliths. Because weapons do not attack, units holding weapons use attack using them. RAW ftw

What I typed for the rule is the exact wording, I did not leave anything out (cept changing Armour Penetration to AP

It says

"resist incoming attacks" and "Attacks which count" and "weapons that get additional AP"

Well, you are quoting from the old version. The new one has additional text...................
Course, Iggy is still way off base with his attempted humor. Least, I hope it's humor............

**Vanguard27**

don_mondo wrote:

Well, you are quotig from the old version. The new one has additional text...................

Old Codex FTL

Thanks

**Volkov**

You forgot to mention the part where it says "any weapon attacking the monolith". Since weapons do not attack, any weapon with st+2d6 ability works on monoliths. Because weapons do not attack, units holding weapons use attack using them. RAW ftw

Well apparently rough rider hunting lances attack on their own, so they won't get 2d6 :-(

**Dashofpepper**

Vanguard27 wrote:
Based on this, it doesn't specify a specific special ability. It just says any weapon that gets "additional AP dice" and give several examples of some (and some that don't exist IE. Blasters).

My Dark Eldar beg to differ. My 2000 point army has 15 dark lances, 6 blasters, and 9 disintegrators. The difference between a dark lance and a blaster is that one is a lance, and the other is not - it simply reduces armor like a lance. The reason this is important is because Black Templar can take Blessed Hull, which ignores the armor-decreasing properties of lance weapons.

That means that a blaster can reduce the armor value of a BT Land Raider, but not of a Monolith.

**The Bringer**

Xca|iber wrote:
If you can agree on those points, then meltabombs should roll 8+D6 against monoliths. (Obviously, this is just one interpretation that describes my logic progression, so YMMV).

Vanguard27 wrote:So,
My interpretation would be any weapon that gets additional (IE, more then 1) doesn't get it, no matter the special ability or reason it gets it.

I would agree with the conclusion that Melta bombs should get 8 + 1D6 against the monolith. One of the two D6 would be considered extra considering the normal penetration is 1D6, and the 8 must represent strength. And, so the most logical result would be that the Melta-bombs would get 8+D6 armor penetration.

Obviously there is still room for disagreement, but I guess my gaming group will just have to come to a conclusion on it before another game where it could be an issue.

**Gwar!**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Vanguard27 wrote:
Based on this, it doesn't specify a specific special ability. It just says any weapon that gets "additional AP dice" and give several examples of some (and some that don't exist IE. Blasters).

My Dark Eldar beg to differ. My 2000 point army has 15 dark lances, 6 blasters, and 9 disintegrators. The difference between a dark lance and a blaster is that one is a lance, and the other is not - it simply reduces armor like a lance. The reason this is important is because Black Templar can take Blessed Hull, which ignores the armor-decreasing properties of lance weapons.

That means that a blaster can reduce the armor value of a BT Land Raider, but not of a Monolith.

Actually, neither the Dark Lance or the Blaster are "Lance" Weapons

**Saldiven**

Gwar! wrote:
Xca|iber wrote:Of course, if you can't work this out, then one or both of you are being stupid.
Or breaking the rules, since the rules are crystal clear on the matter. Vs Monoliths you roll 0+D6 with all types of Grenades.

Luckily, DE Haywire grenades just skip the whole issue.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vanguard27 wrote:Based on this, it doesn't specify a specific special ability. It just says any weapon that gets "additional AP dice" and give several examples of some (and some that don't exist IE. Blasters).

Blasters do exist.

They are a DE weapon that functions as a 12" range, assault Dark Lance.

**Xca|iber**

Gwar! wrote:
Xca|iber wrote:Of course, if you can't work this out, then one or both of you are being stupid.
Or breaking the rules, since the rules are crystal clear on the matter. Vs Monoliths you roll 0+D6 with all types of Grenades.

Why would you roll 0+D6? Nowhere in the rules does it state that you roll Str+D6. It specifies that any attack which gets an additional AP die does not get that die. So if you wanted to argue Pure Pure RAW, I think you should argue that meltabombs' 2D6 is part of its natural armour penetration, and not additional, thus meltabombs would be 8+2D6 for armour penetration.

(This is not my stance, however; just arguing RAW).

EDIT: Apparently I have an old version of the 'dex that doesn't specifiy Str+D6. Forget the above.

**Demogerg**

Living metal works against "extra" dice for armor penetration, the Melta rule gives a weapon an extra D6, Meltabombs do not roll for armor penetration based on the normal strength +D6 +melta extra D6, they just roll based on the ruling in their text which is 8+2d6.

So meltabombs either nothing against monoliths (because its not strength+D6) OR they do a full 8+2d6
My FLGS plays it as 8+2d6.

**Vanguard27**

Vanguard27 wrote:
Based on this, it doesn't specify a specific special ability. It just says any weapon that gets "additional AP dice" and give several examples of some (and some that don't exist IE. Blasters).

Saldiven wrote:
Blasters do exist.

Dashofpepper wrote:
My Dark Eldar beg to differ. .

Ok, I stand corrected, Forgot about the DE
But are DE a real army, anyway?

(JOKE)