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Natfka wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:


Once per game DOES imply at any given time you need to drop a dice. But only DURING the game, not before or after. IE, from the seizing the initiative stage until the game ends on turn5-7ish, you can choose to reroll a dice.

Where does it say During the game. U made me re-read all related areas of the codex and I still cant find it. Even if game is defined from seize inititive onward, (which is fine I dont care cuase it doesnt matter here), you get one die roll per game. That means for anything that you want to re-roll. (please find where it says one re-roll during the game).

Once per game is pretty clear. Nothing implies or says it has to be from point of seize inititive to game end. It doesnt even say it has to be game related. If you decide during your game or before your seize inititive, that highest die roll buys pizza, you get a re-roll.

Its under his entry. In the codex. Says, "Once per game."


I think what you guys are missing is that there are two different kind of die-rolls.

#1. There are the die rolls you make to set up and configure the game. These are extraneous, and not part of your table-top recreation of combat. What mission are we going to use for this game? What deployment will this game use? Which of us is going to go first in the game? When is the game going to end?

#2. All the die rolls that happen in the game itself - this is pretty much everything else; where Corbulo has the ability to affect an in-game action with a reroll. Corbulo can't affect how the stage is set, he can only influence one event on the stage.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

visavismeyou wrote: rambling

While your elaboration on the metaphysical and how the universe operates is interesting, as is your discourse on the rulebook not being a legal document, I find it hard to answer anything you said because I didn't see anything really being said.

The rulebook is not a legal document. It is a rulebook. The rulebook tells us from beginning to end how to set up a game, prepare for it, how to play it, what to do while playing it, and how to end it. There is no misconception in there about one or the other; see what I wrote above - there are some dice rolls to set up the game - those can't be influenced by an in-game character with a special power that only works in game. I don't need analogies, but I'll try another one on - think of Corbulo like a mod in a video game that lets you change anything that happens. It can't change whether you decide to play the game or not, it can't change whether you are player 1 or player 2, and it can't make you turn the video game off.....those are all things you do outside the content of the game.

The same applies here; Corbulo's ability to affect one die-roll in game can no more affect whether you come to the game store that day than it can the mission you roll for or the deployment you choose. Once the game starts (after deployment, according to the rules), then Corbulo gets his one-hit wonder.

Dashofpepper wrote:Hey folks!
"Corbulo allows you a single re-roll once per game. This can be any roll you have made, such as for an armor save, a Leadership test, a To Hit Roll, a Scatter roll, or even to seize the initiative. If Corbulo is slain before this ability is used, then it is lost."

Once PER game does not mean the same thing as once DURING the game. If you reroll for who sets up first, that roll is related to the game, adnd counts as your reroll for the game that the set-up roll is for.

Trying to apply all these non warhammer related situations to what Corbulo can do or can't do is silly.

For instance: Should the Atlanta falcons have an ability that allowed them to re-flip a coin during the game they would be able re-flip at the beginning of the game or during OT.

If Corbulo said 'pick a card' or 'dance a jig' it would be applicable ANY time you had to do one of those activities.

Well seize the initiative sounds to me like it is pre-game. Or if that is up for debate what about scout moves? If you make a scout move with a storm raven and enter difficult terrain can you re-roll the difficult terrain test? I see both arguments and am inclined to think that this debate will only end with a GW FAQ

Volkov wrote:Well seize the initiative sounds to me like it is pre-game. Or if that is up for debate what about scout moves? If you make a scout move with a storm raven and enter difficult terrain can you re-roll the difficult terrain test? I see both arguments and am inclined to think that this debate will only end with a GW FAQ

There's not really need for discussion about when the game starts; its on page 86. The game starts after deployment. Scout and seizing are both after deployment, thus are part of the game.

@sleepysnagrund: "that roll is related to the game" So is the roll for mission, and for deployment type, and the roll to end the game. Where do you draw the line? The only line I can see to draw about what is included in the game is the one the rulebook gives to us: After deployment.

I've yet to see anything from anyone supported by the rules, just "Game" is not the same as "game" and "Well, its related to the game so should count."

Why exactly would GW go through great lengths to write in other codexes specific examples of characters, wargear, and abilities having the ability to influence the die to see who goes first, and then not include it in BA unless they didn't want BA to have that power? There are armies and language and precedent for getting to reroll that dice. BA don't have it.

The rules explicitly tell us that the the game that Corbulo can influence starts after deployment. Does anyone have anything solid, reasoned, and backed by rules why this is incorrect?

One thing I haven't seen you answer is the point about the power working once PER game, not once DURING the game.


Secondly, what makes you think it can't be used to roll to see if the game ends? That clearly comes after deployment, and it comes clearly BEFORE the game ends.


Last, it's really all opinion, if GW FAQs it, then we will know what they want us to use it for, if INAT rules on it, then we can have a guidline to use as well. Until then, your opinion carries as much weight as anyone else's opinion.



Clay

Primarch wrote:One thing I haven't seen you answer is the point about the power working once PER game, not once DURING the game.

Would you try to use your re-roll in a game of Space Hulk if Corbulo survived in your last game of 40k? If not, you're being inconsistent about it working outside of the game. If so, I think we're done here.

Primarch wrote:Secondly, what makes you think it can't be used to roll to see if the game ends? That clearly comes after deployment, and it comes clearly BEFORE the game ends.

Technically you can, but only if you rolled the die. This causes serious rules issues over who is allowed to roll it.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I'd rule that the roll can be rerolled. That role isn't part of the Game, but it is part of the game.

Regardless of how you define the game, you just lost.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I'd rule that the roll can be rerolled. That role isn't part of the Game, but it is part of the game.

Regardless of how you define the game, you just lost.

Leave that unfunny dreck on 4chan where it belongs.

thebetter1 wrote:

Primarch wrote:One thing I haven't seen you answer is the point about the power working once PER game, not once DURING the game.

Would you try to use your re-roll in a game of Space Hulk if Corbulo survived in your last game of 40k? If not, you're being inconsistent about it working outside of the game. If so, I think we're done here.

Sorry, but Primarch's got you on this one. Per means per, not during. The roll is allowed for every game you play, the way the rules are written. The problem is that they won't affect anything besides the game he's in.
EDIT: But once he dies, you aren't allowed the reroll. Since GW pulls all sorts of shenanigans about "off the table-on the table, dead-alive", we can safely say that as long as you leave Corbulo on the table after the game, you can use the rule in your next game.

Honestly people, sort it out with the person you're playing with before the game, because there is no indisputable answer to this one. Or wait for GW to steal Gwar!'s FAQ.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I'd rule that the roll can be rerolled. That role isn't part of the Game, but it is part of the game.

Regardless of how you define the game, you just lost.

Leave that unfunny dreck on 4chan where it belongs.

Ahh relax, I was just ribbing ya .

I think, as stated previously, that since it says 'per game' instead of 'during the game', then Corbulo's reroll should be allowed.

Nightwatch wrote:

thebetter1 wrote:

Primarch wrote:One thing I haven't seen you answer is the point about the power working once PER game, not once DURING the game.

Would you try to use your re-roll in a game of Space Hulk if Corbulo survived in your last game of 40k? If not, you're being inconsistent about it working outside of the game. If so, I think we're done here.

Sorry, but Primarch's got you on this one. Per means per, not during. The roll is allowed for every game you play, the way the rules are written. The problem is that they won't affect anything besides the game he's in.
EDIT: But once he dies, you aren't allowed the reroll. Since GW pulls all sorts of shenanigans about "off the table-on the table, dead-alive", we can safely say that as long as you leave Corbulo on the table after the game, you can use the rule in your next game.

Honestly people, sort it out with the person you're playing with before the game, because there is no indisputable answer to this one. Or wait for GW to steal Gwar!'s FAQ.

Primarch doesn't have anything on this one.

Its allowed once per game. The game has a definitive beginning and end. The game doesn't start when you walk up to the table. It starts after deployment. So once per game, you get a reroll. If you're playing cards and you're allowed to pick one card from your deck during the game, that doesn't mean you get to pick a card before the game and place it on top of your deck.

Dashofpepper wrote:

visavismeyou wrote: rambling

While your elaboration on the metaphysical and how the universe operates is interesting, as is your discourse on the rulebook not being a legal document, I find it hard to answer anything you said because I didn't see anything really being said.

that was my point... about your post...

Dashofpepper wrote:The rulebook is not a legal document. It is a rulebook.

oh god... rule = law... if you call it a rulebook you're saying its a legal document... Look up the words... please dear god use a dictionary before you respond. I really dont like shooting down such simple arguments. It makes me feel dirty.

Dashofpepper wrote:The rulebook tells us from beginning to end how to set up a game,

No it doesnt... its full of terrible explanations and inconsistencies; at best it is a colloquial guide book to a lose convention of 'Eh, sorta play this way but mostly just have fun', hell, they even admit it.

P2 SRB:

THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE!
Warhammer 40,000 is an involving game, with
many different armies, weapons and possibilities. In
a game of this size and complexity there are bound
to be occasions where a particular situation lies
outside these rules, often when unusual models
interact. At other times you may know the rule is
covered but you just can’t seem to find the right
page. Then again you may know the rule, but the
reality of exactly where your models are on the table
may make it a really close call – measuring assault
moves and deciding if a key model is in cover are
classic examples.
All of these instances can lead to arguments, so it is
important to remember that the rules are just a
framework to create an enjoyable game. Winning at
any cost is less important than making sure both
players – not just the victor – have a good time. If a
dispute does crop up then work out the answer in a
gentlemanly manner. Many players simply like to rolloff
and let the dice decide who is right, allowing
them to get straight back to blasting each other to
pieces. After the game you can happily continue
your discussion of the finer points of the rules, or
agree how you will both interpret them should the
same situation happen again. You could even decide
to change the rules to suit you better (this is known
as a ‘house rule’).
The most important rule then is that the rules aren’t
all that important! So long as both players agree,
you can treat them as sacrosanct or mere guidelines
– the choice is entirely yours.

Dashofpepper wrote:The same applies here; Corbulo's ability to affect one die-roll in game can no more affect whether you come to the game store that day than it can the mission you roll for or the deployment you choose. Once the game starts (after deployment, according to the rules), then Corbulo gets his one-hit wonder.

Again you completely either sidestep a valid objection of mine or completely miss it or completely misunderstand it. If you are right, then the game cannot be played as the deployment "phase" (Even though that phase doesn't exist in the 'rulebook') is completely broken if you are correct. If the "Deploy Forces" segment of the uhhh... how to phrase this correctly... the segment of the "activity we are partaking in" (I cant call it a game because the game hasn't started yet according to you) in this segment, none of the models have any abilities... They are just models like they are when they are sitting on our shelves at home, since the "Deploy Forces" segment of the "Activity" is before the game starts, these models are not bestowed with rules (According to you) so we couldn't infiltrate, we couldn't scout move, we couldn't move at all because the "Rulebook" doesn't apply yet...

As you can see, since your position leads to an absurdity, it is wrong, ex nihilo nihil fit. If Corbulo cannot affect the Seize the Initiative roll because the "Game hasn't started yet" and he doesn't have that ability yet, then no models have any abilities during deploy forces and the game is completely unplayable.

Some of the things that cant be done during deployment if you are right:

Units cannot be deployed in coherency with each other because coherency doesn't make any sense yet (The rulebook doesn't apply yet).
Units cannot scout move (Just like Corbulo, they do not have that ability yet because the game has not started yet).
Units cannot be placed into reserve to Outflank because they do not have that ability (or any ability) yet.
Units cannot roll for "Red Thirst"
Enemy IC's cannot be affected by that Blood Angels dude that gives Enemy IC's -1 to WS BS Init etc. Wait that might be at the beginning of the game or something, whatever, I've made my point, Dash's position is completely untenable.

Corbulo's rule specifically states you can reroll to seize the initiative. Seems pretty obvious to me.

G

visavismeyou wrote:more rambling

To be honest, I still don't see you doing anything except making false dilemmas to try undermining the rulebook. Don't really see anything that needs a response to shore up my argument about why the rules demonstrate that Corbulo doesn't get to reroll the roll to go first.

Let me sum this up:

*Clamps mouth closed, closes eyes, turns head this way and that to avoid getting the mashed carrots in his mouth*

No! No! No! Uh-uh! Don't wanna! NO!

"But it's fairly obvious, due to this and this..."

NO! NO! NOOO!!

Dash, play it that way in your store. Put your foot down and refuse. Everyone else, do the RAI thing, whatever that means to you and your local group.

As for this argument, it's going nowhere. Someone lock the thread.

Dash, you are the only person in this thread who thinks that the game referred to under this rule is between the "Start the Game" step and the rest of the game. Everyone else thinks it's the entire game. You're alone in your interpretation and refuse to change your mind. What exactly are you looking for?

Dash, even I don't agree with you (I know, real unusual ).

Listen to Gwar!

If it allows you to reroll a single dice PER game, then, one could assume, that, based on the fact that you're about to pay a game, and are currently playing a game, or in the process of setting up a game with the intent to play, if Corbulo is going to be used in either list, then his rolls for mission selection, deployment, and anything else would be valid, as it merely claims that you need to keep, at the very most, a 1:1 ratio of Corbulo's reroll to games with Corbulo currently particpating, or about to participate in them. All past and future games would be disregarded in these instances, as, even if the lists are identical in structure and composition of models, they are still unique to any single game played.

If they weren't, then tournaments wouldn't allow you to use your entire list after round 1, since you'd invariably have to account for casualties. if you were using the same list throughout the event... (which would make for an interesting format, if you ask me... but that's an idea for another thread in another section)