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ShivanAngel wrote:I will point out i like the one save thing.

I miss the days 6-7 years ago where it actually looked like an army on the table, now it looks like a dragon on the table, with 3-5 other small units.

I've gone to a lot or tournies during 7th edition and the final tables always look like they are playing Warmachine. One mega-hero by himself or on a monster, a few small units and a handful of big stuff running around. While I'm still on he fence regarding most of these rumors anything that puts a hold on these silly 30-40 model armies would be really appreciated.

Ixquic wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:I will point out i like the one save thing.

I miss the days 6-7 years ago where it actually looked like an army on the table, now it looks like a dragon on the table, with 3-5 other small units.

I've gone to a lot or tournies during 7th edition and the final tables always look like they are playing Warmachine. One mega-hero by himself or on a monster, a few small units and a handful of big stuff running around. While I'm still on he fence regarding most of these rumors anything that puts a hold on these silly 30-40 model armies would be really appreciated.

Exactly haha, part of the reason i picked up skaven.

My 2250 dark elf list has maybe 50-60 models in it... It would be less if i made it super competitive but i want to sleep at night lol.

My skaven list has over 150 models! it may actually look like an army is rolling up!

As far as the PDFs for the new armies go. I do believe that this is for the Spanish army books only. This is due the Spanish rulebooks being written with metric measurement units. The PDFs are to align them to the Imperial Measurement system that is used in all the other books.

Bah! GW should be converting everything to metric, not the other way around.

Its hard to imagine going to only one save and striking in initiative order without new army books - it makes so much completely out of whack in the current books.

kestral wrote:Bah! GW should be converting everything to metric, not the other way around.

Its hard to imagine going to only one save and striking in initiative order without new army books - it makes so much completely out of whack in the current books.

This is why there is a rumor flying around that all the armies rulebooks (except beasts, cause it was written with 8th in mind) will be redone within a year of 8th's release.

kestral wrote:Bah! GW should be converting everything to metric, not the other way around.

Rick Priestly had an interview with some wargaming magazine recently in which he opined that the unit of measurement used in a game was a method of establishing atmosphere. He reckoned that metric was better suited to sci-fi, or even hard-fi, while imperial was more suited to fantasy and historical.

ShivanAngel wrote:

kestral wrote:Bah! GW should be converting everything to metric, not the other way around.

Its hard to imagine going to only one save and striking in initiative order without new army books - it makes so much completely out of whack in the current books.

This is why there is a rumor flying around that all the armies rulebooks (except beasts, cause it was written with 8th in mind) will be redone within a year of 8th's release.

Because people are incapable of reading, and are spreading false information.

All of the books (aside from like 5) are being reprinted in Spain and only in SPAIN, because they are getting the measurement change.

Yeah I don't know what company those people have been buying models from but if they seriously believe that GW is going to get out the new updates for all armies in a timely fashion (or even before 9th in four years) they are in for a surprise.

You know I almost spent £35 on a Screaming Bell the other day. The rumour about 25% on characters popped into my head and a quick calculation made me realise that I couldn't field it in 2000pts unless it was my only character (Grey Seer and Bell = 440pts). Even in 3000pts, I could only feasibly have another two characters (lets say a Warlock and Chieftain including magic items).

I am becoming increasingly dubious about this rumour or at least the mooted % amount.

In the meantime however, no Screaming Bell for me and no £35 for GW.

Flashman wrote:You know I almost spent £35 on a Screaming Bell the other day. The rumour about 25% on characters popped into my head and a quick calculation made me realise that I couldn't field it in 2000pts unless it was my only character (Grey Seer and Bell = 440pts). Even in 3000pts, I could only feasibly have another two characters (lets say a Warlock and Chieftain including magic items).

I am becoming increasingly dubious about this rumour or at least the mooted % amount.

In the meantime however, no Screaming Bell for me and no £35 for GW.

Yeah im starting to think mounts wont count for that 25%, OR an errata or something will be put out making them take up special choice or something. For skaven especially it just doesnt make sense.

Not that I really know anything about WFB, but why would GW add (or revert back to) a rule that would require printing errata for nearly every army book? Not to mention that those books may or may not have been balanced according to the new system.

I mean, in 40k certain rules or properties get invalidated, but I don't see why they'd do something that affects the contents of every book.

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:You know I almost spent £35 on a Screaming Bell the other day. The rumour about 25% on characters popped into my head and a quick calculation made me realise that I couldn't field it in 2000pts unless it was my only character (Grey Seer and Bell = 440pts). Even in 3000pts, I could only feasibly have another two characters (lets say a Warlock and Chieftain including magic items).

I am becoming increasingly dubious about this rumour or at least the mooted % amount.

In the meantime however, no Screaming Bell for me and no £35 for GW.

Yeah im starting to think mounts wont count for that 25%, OR an errata or something will be put out making them take up special choice or something. For skaven especially it just doesnt make sense.

I think they will have to count for the hero percentage since otherwise the ridiculous Lizardmen lists consisting of 90% heroes will be unaffected and thus still be broken. I'm thinking a 50% character cap will be more likely and curb some lists while not making other impossible dreams.

Ixquic wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:You know I almost spent £35 on a Screaming Bell the other day. The rumour about 25% on characters popped into my head and a quick calculation made me realise that I couldn't field it in 2000pts unless it was my only character (Grey Seer and Bell = 440pts). Even in 3000pts, I could only feasibly have another two characters (lets say a Warlock and Chieftain including magic items).

I am becoming increasingly dubious about this rumour or at least the mooted % amount.

In the meantime however, no Screaming Bell for me and no £35 for GW.

Yeah im starting to think mounts wont count for that 25%, OR an errata or something will be put out making them take up special choice or something. For skaven especially it just doesnt make sense.

I think they will have to count for the hero percentage since otherwise the ridiculous Lizardmen lists consisting of 90% heroes will be unaffected and thus still be broken. I'm thinking a 50% character cap will be more likely and curb some lists while not making other impossible dreams.

I agree that 50% lord/hero's would be a little more likely.

However from what i have heard in the rumor mill is that they want to get away from hero hammer. The 700 point lord on dragon charging a unit of infaltry and killing them all. I Honestly wouldnt mind seeing the super mounts (dragons) being unable to be taken in games less than 2500 points. But thats me.

ShivanAngel wrote:

Ixquic wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:I will point out i like the one save thing.

I miss the days 6-7 years ago where it actually looked like an army on the table, now it looks like a dragon on the table, with 3-5 other small units.

I've gone to a lot or tournies during 7th edition and the final tables always look like they are playing Warmachine. One mega-hero by himself or on a monster, a few small units and a handful of big stuff running around. While I'm still on he fence regarding most of these rumors anything that puts a hold on these silly 30-40 model armies would be really appreciated.

Exactly haha, part of the reason i picked up skaven.

My 2250 dark elf list has maybe 50-60 models in it... It would be less if i made it super competitive but i want to sleep at night lol.

My skaven list has over 150 models! it may actually look like an army is rolling up!

And out of those 150 models, how many are actually used for fighting? Are they just mainly fodder, something to fill up the board? Why not just put more terrain there then, that slows up the enemy just as much? Don't get me wrong, I like the look of a huge army. That image of the waves and waves of models attacking the castle in the 8th ed. preview was epic.

Flashman wrote:You know I almost spent £35 on a Screaming Bell the other day. The rumour about 25% on characters popped into my head and a quick calculation made me realise that I couldn't field it in 2000pts unless it was my only character (Grey Seer and Bell = 440pts). Even in 3000pts, I could only feasibly have another two characters (lets say a Warlock and Chieftain including magic items).

I am becoming increasingly dubious about this rumour or at least the mooted % amount.

In the meantime however, no Screaming Bell for me and no £35 for GW.

I am having the same exact thoughts, although not for the screaming bell.

I hope to be able to field my monster themed DE list.

about 90 of them, only 60ish are slaves used to take fire.

HOWEVER it still looks cool!

"That image of the waves and waves of models attacking the castle in the 8th ed. preview was epic."

Agreed but it's nowt more than eye candy

I seriously doubt %'s are coming back..it would ruin TONS and TONS of armies. It would make some lists illegal (or rather, most of them)

I just...don't see it. It would be such a complete DICK move by GW.

Karon wrote:I seriously doubt %'s are coming back..it would ruin TONS and TONS of armies. It would make some lists illegal (or rather, most of them)

I just...don't see it. It would be such a complete DICK move by GW.

It wouldnt make armies useless. Just instead of spending 900 points in characters per game, you might actually have to field more then the 3 minimum core units.....

ShivanAngel wrote:

Karon wrote:I seriously doubt %'s are coming back..it would ruin TONS and TONS of armies. It would make some lists illegal (or rather, most of them)

I just...don't see it. It would be such a complete DICK move by GW.

It wouldnt make armies useless. Just instead of spending 900 points in characters per game, you might actually have to field more then the 3 minimum core units.....

Zing!

Also, the way the game is changing may make your army invalid anyways. They've already mentioned sweeping changes.

So here's a spoiler. You'll be changing your list.

kestral wrote:Bah! GW should be converting everything to metric, not the other way around.

Its hard to imagine going to only one save and striking in initiative order without new army books - it makes so much completely out of whack in the current books.

So multiply everything by 2.5 I prefer inches because it's what I am used to on the table top. Sure for everything else I use cm. It's already hard enough and an important part of tactics to be able to estimate your move distance in tournament play (I don't give a frag at home and will happily measure and move back and forth - if both players do it's fair). But yes if you are used to thinking in inches then to have bigger numbers being chucked around in cm would be rather difficult. Also if the rules are designed in inches then they may pick distances that are hard to express in cm as they may have to resort to mm. Funny though because I always think of the bases for the models in mm, even the miniatures were referred to as 28mm scale. I guess that's what you get from having games designed by people used to using both measurement systems. I don't like the idea of 'units of measurement' for our European friends I know the EU gets it's knickers in a twist but just call it what it is, especially as those measuring sticks are so prone to warping and inconsistency.

Scottywan82 wrote:
Also, the way the game is changing may make your army invalid anyways. They've already mentioned sweeping changes.

So here's a spoiler. You'll be changing your list.

For 40k, i remember the 3rd->4th change being promoted as "No Codex will be obsoleted, your army will still be valid."

Sure, your army was valid, but they didn't say competitive or fun to play.

This sounds a step worse. Your army book will still be usable, but some army construction rules will be different, so you may need to add different units.

At least they're being up front about it.

So, that's not what I'm talking about. With the %'s, I won't be able to take my two rare monsters, won't be able to take my characters, won't actually be able to take all my CORE either (hurr durr minimum requirement, kiss my ass), but probably my special.

Just pisses me off, they're going to STREAMLINE builds this way, you won't be able to take whatever you want. Its just bs.

Karon wrote:So, that's not what I'm talking about. With the %'s, I won't be able to take my two rare monsters, won't be able to take my characters, won't actually be able to take all my CORE either (hurr durr minimum requirement, kiss my ass), but probably my special.

Just pisses me off, they're going to STREAMLINE builds this way, you won't be able to take whatever you want. Its just bs.

Has core ever had a maximum on it? Always thought core had to be AT LEAST X points with no limit.

People are going to react differently to the changes. I for one like hero's being restricted. Im looking forwared to seeing an ARMY on the table. Not a guy on a dragon, a dude on a horse, 2 cannons, and 3 units of infantry.

I'm going to put a bet on either 275 or 550 being the limit for Rare choices in 2000pts can anybody guess why?
A lot of these rules seem to be intriguing and for people complaining about changes in list its nowhere near as harsh as 5th/6th Fantasy and 2nd/3rd 40k personally I'm hoping for something like 4th/5th a simplification and streamlining......Unfortunately this seems to be making it even more complicated!

Email to GW. Do you think they'll bite?

Flashman wrote:Hello,

As you are no doubt aware, the announcement of Warhammer 8th Edition has led to frenzied internet speculation regarding the new rules. One of the more persistent rumours is that of a return to percentages for army selections (i.e. max 25% on characters, min 25% core, max 25% special etc).

I currently would like to round out my 2000 point Skaven army with a Sreaming Bell, but the mooted 25% restriction on Characters would make its inclusion in my army list unworkable.

I'm fairly certain that GW would not want to restrict gamers in this manner. Could you confirm this rumour is nonsense, so that I can make my purchase in confidence

Regards

I reckon they'll tell you to buy it anyway you can always use it in larger games and should give them your money regardless.......

Llamahead wrote:I'm going to put a bet on either 275 or 550 being the limit for Rare choices in 2000pts can anybody guess why?
A lot of these rules seem to be intriguing and for people complaining about changes in list its nowhere near as harsh as 5th/6th Fantasy and 2nd/3rd 40k personally I'm hoping for something like 4th/5th a simplification and streamlining......Unfortunately this seems to be making it even more complicated!

I think you're on to something, but I'd put my bet on 500. If 275 is the new standard price of the new big monsters, like in Beastmen, you can take one and still have some warmachines, but you won't be able to take two.

This is not a rumour, just my speculation.

Llamahead wrote:I reckon they'll tell you to buy it anyway you can always use it in larger games and should give them your money regardless.......

My guess at the response will something like, " We cannot comment on games development, but can assure you of our commitment to offer support for all of our products."

Manfred von Drakken wrote:And the percentages seems outright wrong. For starters, the last time GW did that with WHFB, the percentages were listed in each book and they were all different: not all armies can viably do 25% Core (ie, all forms of Elves) or limit themselves to 25% Characters (ie, Warriors of Chaos, or ANYBODY RIDING A DRAGON)

Overall, a lot of those 'changes' make me cringe and feel like I'm looking at a completely different game, which is not a good thing.

+1 on not feeling happy or confident about the changes. Thanks goodness BA just came out as I'm going back to 40k after a 4 year hiatus.
I was building a HE army but I've put it all on hold unitil I can work out what will be needed for a fuctioning army (also with the new models in the base game box set will it be worth buying any more archers or spears, hopefully they will look something like the models I've bought in the last year)

Its hard enough buying what is needed for a 2000 or 2250 point army, let alone the new benchmark of 3000 points.

Also my lizardmen will be able to take a SMP at 2000 points, and no other characters.
Or a Skink priest on an EOG and a naked priest.

Seems pretty harsh....

25% characters is pretty harsh if you are relying on a dragon-mounted character or EoG + Slaan to carry the weight of your army. I'm not sure about you guys, but while I do enjoy a large scary monster or three on the field, running up against the double Engine + Slaan Lizards isn't much fun and is grossly disproportionate. When going from a 1500 point game to a 2250 point game means adding one or two characters, it's pretty dumb and deserves a good looking at.