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I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

mikhaila wrote:As a whole, we need to wait and see how it all fits together.

Not much a fan of the super-spells, but with that the Skaven's 13th Spell looks much less impressive. Unless that Large Blast Template "I test or die" is something like 30+ to cast, it'll easily be able to do more than 4D6 infantry casualties (barring an enemy army like Ogres) in a single casting. He'll, if it smacks a unit of Saurus, Orcs, Gors, or Undead, they're done suffering anywhere from 66-83% casualties.

However, once more, Night Goblins prove superior to regular Goblins. Is there any change that could make them less effective?

The whole thing about being forced to use a non-hand weapon if you have it feels very lame.. Why give units options if you're just going to not let them use it? Oh well I guess, I just liked being able to pick hand weapon shield or great weapon as not every combat is the same

I think it makes sense though, Kirasu.

I mean, what soldier really carried a huge axe, and a shield and sword too?

Karon wrote:I mean, what soldier really carried a huge axe, and a shield and sword too?

More than you'd think, I'd wager.

Many knights carried 3 weapons(Lance for the initial charge, a cavalry sword for fighting on horse back, and a sword for fighting if dismounted).

But they were on horses, so the weight wasn't as much as a problem, as if they had to use the sword, they dropped the lance (as well as the cavalry sword I would wager)

Or the common Spear / Shield / Short Sword combination.

The more I'm reading, the less I'm liking the new rules.

Minsc wrote:Or the common Spear / Shield / Short Sword combination.

Yep, the standard armament of the average Roman soldier.

skyth wrote:The more I'm reading, the less I'm liking the new rules.

QFT. I'll probably be poring over the book Tuesday at my FLGS (it seems I've been designated 'the guy to run the demos') and coming to grips with it. I'll run a few games, but if the books at all resembles most of these rumors, my local group's going to have a LARGE discussion about this book...

If Infantry models are armed with a combat weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it.

This is the stupidest thing ever. Men at Arms (and I'm sure there are other examples) are forced to buy shields regardless of what weapon they are using. This wouldn't be so frustrating if they actually were going to fix books in a three year timeline.

I have this sudden urge to model up a Cygor that instead of throwing around bits of menhir is chucking a new-edition rulebook.

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

Ixquic wrote:

If Infantry models are armed with a combat weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it.

This is the stupidest thing ever. Men at Arms (and I'm sure there are other examples) are forced to buy shields regardless of what weapon they are using. This wouldn't be so frustrating if they actually were going to fix books in a three year timeline.

saurus, they can be armed with hw&shield, and a spear. they don't exchange their hw for the spear they just pick up a new spear.

yeah.. tons of units have options to carry multiple weapons. Doesnt matter if it *doesnt make sense* since this is a high fantasy game that doesnt make sense on MANY levels.

They just made a lot of weapon options useless for no real reason other than to add a 40k rule that only really applied to characters

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

RiTides wrote:

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

I'm not sure on this one, at the moment I say no, but someone who's read the book has said yes. This would mean they could negate rank bonus as well.

@Minsc

I think there are 6 'battles' suitable for tournie play, which would conveniently correlate to D6...

From what I hear there may then be 1 specific scenario for most armies, though obviously these could be tailored to fit most match ups.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

If that's the case, then I'll have to rethink some things for my beastmen. Well, ALL armies will, haha.

My army doesn't even use Scrolls (well, 'cept my Clan Eshin - they need it what with just 2 DD).

O&G and Dwarves, humorously, are going to be quite well off in this new edition. Dwarves because they get +2 Dice by default and, if I'm not mistaken, will still get their Rune[x] Dispel Dice Bonus'. Meanwhile, O&G have the advantage in that they can generate +3 DD beyond normal (via a Magic Standard that's common in most lists), another magic item for +1 DD and -1 PD to the enemy, and lastly a Staff of Sorcery for +1 Dispel. Only a 6-6 roll will lead to the other player having more PD than you have DD (otherwise you getting at least as many DD as they have PD) with the base roll.

Karon wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

If that's the case, then I'll have to rethink some things for my beastmen. Well, ALL armies will, haha.

And number of wizards has little to do with how many PD and DD you have.


-Roll 2d6. Thats the PD you have for the phase. Each magician rolls a die, if they get a '6' add +1 dice. You may never go over 12. The highest of the 2d6 is how many dispell dice your opponent gets. He then rolls a die for each mage, and adds +1 dispel dice for each '6'. So the amount of power available from "The Winds of Magic" in each magic phase is largely unaffected by the number of mages on the field.

I see.

1 Bray Shaman w/ Stone of Spite and a Scroll should be fine then.

Many things changing, I'm excited for people to actually SEE the book.

My Dwarves should be loving this. I think 2 Runesmihs are in order. They will have the Master Rune of Balance and the Master Rune of Spelbreaking, as well as 2 dispel scroll runes. That gives me 2 Dispel Dice for being Dwarves, 2 Dispel Dice for the Runesmiths, and 1 For the Rune of Balance. The Rune of Balance also steals an enemy power die, While the other Master Rune Gives me +1 Dispel. This means thsat my opponent will only have equal Power dice top my dispel dice if they roll double 6's. Sweeeeeeeeeet!

Death Magic is going to be rather popular for Magic Heavy Armies due to it's natty Lore Attribute.

Essentially, for every wound caused by Death Magic spells,you roll an equal amount of D6. Each one that comes up as a 5 or 6 converts into a Power Dice there and then. Not 100% sure how this works with the 12 Maximum, as theoretically, I could 6 dice Purple Sun of Xereus, cause umpteen wounds, and gain back all the dice used to cast. Now whether the 12 Maximum means for that phase, or whether I can continually top up my pool in this manner, that would be the question!

Hope this makes sense!

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:My Dwarves should be loving this. I think 2 Runesmihs are in order. They will have the Master Rune of Balance and the Master Rune of Spelbreaking, as well as 2 dispel scroll runes. That gives me 2 Dispel Dice for being Dwarves, 2 Dispel Dice for the Runesmiths, and 1 For the Rune of Balance. The Rune of Balance also steals an enemy power die, While the other Master Rune Gives me +1 Dispel. This means thsat my opponent will only have equal Power dice top my dispel dice if they roll double 6's. Sweeeeeeeeeet!

You may still get the +2 dice for being dwarves, can't remember if it was that, or +2 to dispel. But the runesmiths won't add any dice. Balance will still allow you to steal a dice. Dwarves should have very good magic defense, altogether.


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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Death Magic is going to be rather popular for Magic Heavy Armies due to it's natty Lore Attribute.

Essentially, for every wound caused by Death Magic spells,you roll an equal amount of D6. Each one that comes up as a 5 or 6 converts into a Power Dice there and then. Not 100% sure how this works with the 12 Maximum, as theoretically, I could 6 dice Purple Sun of Xereus, cause umpteen wounds, and gain back all the dice used to cast. Now whether the 12 Maximum means for that phase, or whether I can continually top up my pool in this manner, that would be the question!

Hope this makes sense!

I believe the wording was "may not ever have more than 12 dice in the pool at any time during the phase." If that's correct, I think it implies you could theoretically cast a lot of death magic, and just keep replenishing your dice. limited of course, by getting spells off, and having spells available to cast.

Stunties do indeed get +2 to Dispel, which is nice.

Magic has seriously gone all or nothing. The Spell Lores really have to be seen to be believed!

Will check the exact wording before long as to the 12 PD, as I suspect a Vampire could be utter filth with Forbidden Lore of Death Magic, and an awful lot of the those lovely cheap Necromancers to keep the army trim and proper!

The complete list of magic items

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32236

Note that I will not be updating the first post with all these, as from tuesday the time for rumours is over.

Schild des Ptolos () 25 pts
Buckler, 1+ armour save against missile attack (Beschussattacken)

Zauberspruchshild () 20 pts
Buckler, bearer gains magic resistance (1)

Verzauberter Schild () 5 pts
Buckler, Armour save is better by 2

Glücksbringender Schild () 5 pts
Buckler, only one use, first hit will be ignored by 2+

Also, there is an item that says it gives you relentless....40k crossover rule?

So I guess shields and bucklers are seperate now? Maybe Bucklers are the 6+ ward, and the regular shield is still the same. Maybe makes a bit more sense.

Buckler might just be a translation thing. There was one a short while back with Pikes / Spears being interchangeable.

EDIT: Especially looks the case with an Enchanted "Buckler" being +2 to save.

EDIT 2: Hero Slayer seems moderately priced, go figure. I mean, yeah it's 20pts less than the Orc version, but the Orc version is also for any enemy character within 12". Shame that's going to start becoming a common thing though.

Not too fond of the Cloud of Flies piece being 25pts, I'll have to re-check my book but I think the original one for O&G was almost double that for same effect.

Two pieces of armor and two Talismans that give straight up 5+ or 4+ Wards. Not exactly liking this: 40K where every character has an "invuln" save?

The loss of a Staff of Sorcery is going to be felt when it's slowly phased out of army books. Armies that lose it earlier sooner than later are going to be hit hardest.

Grimstonefire wrote:

RiTides wrote:

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

I'm not sure on this one, at the moment I say no, but someone who's read the book has said yes. This would mean they could negate rank bonus as well.

Wow, I'm very curious about this! I have heard that skirmishers will not move freely, but in a block with 1" between each model (I'm not sure if it was here or elsewhere... all blurring together now).

Does anyone who's seen the book know if skirmishers do break ranks in some fashion? That'd be a game-changer for me, since I'm not taking many blocks... but I'm not getting my hopes up

Seemingly, here and elsewhere are "confirming" Skirmishers in blocks. I'd imagine it as akin to the "Nine are Abroad" style of formation for WotR.

Right now, it looks like - barring forcing the enemy to fight in woods (which seemingly allow no ranks to RnF units) - that Wood Elves can't take down RnF units as they'll always be stubborn even if the unit wins. Well, barring a flank, but with all the free reforms and all it should be relatively easy to bar a flank attack unless the FS army has more units than you.