8th Edition Rulebook Roundup

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**Grimstonefire**

Sorry for all the formatting errors, it is a lot of work for me to correct this every time I do an update as it's easier for me to just copy and paste.

Note: This is only a summary of rumours that have been discussed in recent months. Rumours are subject to change. They are only 100% correct when they are facts.

Edit: I am changing the process of updating this a bit. What I will do is save up rumour changes for a day or two, then post them in GREEN. They will stay like this until the next update, which will then be posted in ORANGE so that people can follow all the latest changes and keep track of the previous update.

Updating this: Much as I'd like to have the time and motivation to read all rumour discussions, PLEASE PM ME here with info, only if there is a significant rumour discussion from someone you guys really trust.

All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
528+ pages. Full colour
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
The book is up for advance order from a swedish store. £45.
Definitely going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 10th
Rulebook will come with next black box, so all shops can make demo day by 12th June.

There will be a "General's" Edition as well as a "Gunner's" Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. "General's Edition" is supported with a white linen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes...

ARMY SELECTION AND OTHER BITS

[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.

25% max lords (includes mounts)
25% max heroes
25% MIN core
50% max special
25% max rare

Just so I am clear on this, as there has been some misunderstanding, you can have a lord level character leading a small army if you want to (within the points), you don't have to take a hero as you do currently. I have heard nothing about unit champions being the general

You have to take a minimum of 3 units, not including characters.

[*]Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
[*]Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.
[*]High Elves ignore all these restrictions as they have the Elite Army special rule.
[*]These numbers are increased when having games of 3000 points or more. (Up to 6 special and 4 rare) Could be +1 of the same type of special and rare per 1000pts.

Allied Forces

[*]Allied forces will not get a % allocation. However, rules for using allied forced (i.e. an updated allied forces chart) are in the rulebook.
[*]Allies are now split into 3 groups:

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings

[*]The allies rules are intended to be used by more than 2 players. You are not supposed to use more than one armybook in your army.
[*]Allies from the same grouping are allowed to use the other army General’s leadership, but cause panic in units of the other army if they are forced to flee. If an allied unit is forced to flee through another ally from a different group, the stationary unit counts as dangerous terrain (see below under terrain).

Example: High Elves (Force of Order) flee through Warriors of Chaos (Force of Destruction).
[*]If you are allied with Dark Elves or Skaven you have to roll every friendly turn in order to see what sort of ally they are (need more info on this).

[*]If you are playing games over 3000pts with allied forces, one general has to be nominated as the Grand General, who increases his leadership radius to 18".

[*]There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army. These are NOT rebalancing lists, only making them conform to the 8th ed rules.

You may measure distances whenever you want.

Chaos Dwarfs are not in the book. :cries:

MOVEMENT

Single models have a 180 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 90 degrees arc of sight

Standard Movement

[*]Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform).

Charging.

[*]Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 use 2 highest)

[*]+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)
[*]Units charged by multiple enemies can change their charge reaction. For instance, you hold against the first enemy that charges you, then change it to flee when the second unit charges you.

Failed Charge

[*]I think you only move the result of the D6's you rolled, you do not add on your basic movement.

Fliers

[*]Move 10 " and march 20 ". They ignore terrain whilst moving. While fleeing or pursuing, they move 3D6"

Fast Cavalry

[*]Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game, but cannot charge an enemy in the first turn, and cannot end their movement within 12”.

Fleeing/Pursuing

[*]Fleeing/pursuit is rolled for the same way as charging. Units fleeing through impassable terrain and enemy units; see below under dangerous terrain.

Pursuit

[*]When you charge and reach a fleeing unit, you only wipe it out if you pass a Ld test.

Marching.

[*]Double Movement distance as normal.

Enemy Sighted

[*]When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Reforming

[*] In the Remaining Moves phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free, as long as the unit passes a leadership test. You can shoot, but count as moving.

Units containing a musician can do a free reform after failing a charge if they pass a Ld test. Units may reform after the combat phase, but cannot have less models in base contact. Units that lost the combat resolution have to make a Ld test in order to reform, and must reform 2nd.

Heavy cavalry

[*]Unchanged. Rumour was wrong, heavy cav march as normal.

Skirmishers

[*]Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, and must be deployed with a 1/2 inch gap between each and every model.

X = Model
O = 1" Gap between

X O X O X O X O X
O O O O O O O O O
X O X O X O X O X

Skirmishers still rank up in combat, but as they do not get a rank bonus they cannot negate enemy rank bonuses. As long as they are not charging, Skirmishers can reform on the move as often as they wish and also march and shoot.

[*]Charging Skirmishers, you line up to them, not them to you.

[*]Skirmishers are NOT stubborn in a forest. I think this is Wood Elves only.
[*]Skirmishers do not have 360 degree Line of sight.

Redirecting charges

[*]If I have understood this correctly, it seems we’re going back to 6th ed rules. You can redirect a charge at any other valid target following the normal rules for declaring charges, not just at an enemy unit lying on your direct pursuit path.

MAGIC

NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories

Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from anonymous sources:

Generating Power and Dispel Dice

[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)

[*]Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
[*]Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
[*]You may not channel while fleeing, off the board or when you suffer from stupidity..

Maximum Power and Dispel Dice

[*]The maximum number of power or dispel dice you may have at any time is 12. This includes any power/dispel dice generated by special rules, spells and/or magic items.

You cannot channel over 12 power or dispel dice.

The only items that allow you to use more than 12PD a turn are items that add the dice directly to the roll, such as a Power Stone or the Slann's ability.

Casting Spells

[*]To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Dispelling

[*]Caster levels are now added to dispel rolls.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.

[*]It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:

[*]When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.

Lost Control Chart

The loss of Control table is 2D6.

One of the results: Could be S10 hit for caster and models in base contact.

Another result: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for models under a 5” template, centred on the wizard. Also, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 your wizard is plunged into the realm of chaos, ond a 4+ you lose D6 power dice instead.

Another result: All your wizards take a Str 6 hit with no armor saves

11-12 result: Your caster lose d3 wizard levels, and forgets that many spells.

Determining Spells

[*]Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
[*]While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice... :confused:
[*]Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
[*]As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.

[*]There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.

Bound spells

[*]Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. They do not roll on the Loss of Control table, the items are just destroyed if they roll the double 6. Bound abilities like the warrior priests they just forget the spell.

[*]Every magic user has access to the pool.

[*]Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

[*]Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
[*]Each lore to get a mega spell.
[*]Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (more likely)
[*]If you roll a 1 or 2 when casting a spell, the spell automatically fails regardless of modifiers and the wizard may no longer cast this turn.
[*]Some spells will scale up.

Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.

[*]Magic Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
[*]Hex: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment
[*]Augmentation (Buffs): Support your own troops
[*]Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
[*]Power whirls: A template that moves across the table.

[*]It is rumoured that ‘remains in play’ spells are not auto dispelled by casting another spell.

Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the casting costs of Lore of Fire spells on the same target is lowered by d3, cumulative.

[*]Missiles:
Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.

[b]Flaming Arrows 48" Range. S4

[*]Buffs:
Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.

[*]Direct damage:

[*]Power whirls:

Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound.

[*]Basic Spell (name): D6 flaming hits, No armor saves allowed. casting value 10

[*]Missiles:

[*]Curses:
Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.

[*]Buffs:
Possibly a spell that grants every unit in 12" scaly skin (5+ armour)
[*]Direct damage:

[*]Power whirls:

Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type within 18".

[*]Missiles:

[*]Curses:

[*]Buffs:
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).

[*]Direct damage:

[*]Power whirls:

Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

(name). Caster Buff. The level 6 beast spell has 2 (possibly 3 casting values). The caster BECOMES the creature, not summoned on any board edge etc.

At 16+
Mountain Chimera
S7 T7 W10, Fly, 4D6 attacks! complexity is 24. mage has to be on foot. Remains in play.

20+
Greater Fire Dragon
WS8 S8 T8 W8 A8 Ld9, breathweapon S5, scaly skin 2+, terror, fly. mage has to be on foot. Remains in play

Something for a Hydra as well, I don’t know any more about this.

Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus:

[*]Missiles:
[*]Curses:
[*]Buffs:
'Something' Razor (not sure of the name). Unit Buff. The units strength are their Ld stat.
[*]Direct damage:
[*]Power whirls:
Several levels of Comet. It scales up.

Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus:

[*]Missiles:
[*]Curses:
[*]Buffs:
Unit Buff: All units within 12” have +1 attack and double movment,

Unit Buff: All units within 12” have Initiative 10 and Weapon Skill 10

Unit Buff:

Unit Buff:

[*]Direct damage:
[*]Power whirls:

Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus: Every time the caster successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Life he can restore a wound to one model within 12”

[*]Basic spell: Shooting -1 to hit modifier and -1 leadership. If the enemy didn’t use BS they are 4+ to shoot. 7+

[*]Missiles:
Forest Lord: Magic missile attack to any enemy unit within 18" of a forest. Or D6 strength 5 hits or 2d6 strength 5 hits to a unit in the forest.

[*]Buffs:
Regeneration (name?): Unit Buff. Regeneration (6+) to one unit within 12”

Master of Stone: Unit Buff. +2 Toughness to one unit. Casting value 8

Regrowth (name?). Unit Buff. One unit regains D3+1 wounds/models, just like invocation (champ first, then musician/standard, then rank and file. Characters are selected separately)

Throne of Vines: Caster Buff. If this is successfully cast it increases the effect of other lore of life spells made by the caster: Regeneration becomes 5+, Master of Stone becomes +4 Toughness!!!, Forest Lord all hits become Strength 6, Regrowth regains D6+1 wounds. Something for the 6th spell as well.

I heard something about an immunity to miscast on a 2+ for the lore of life, but I don’t know if this is their 6th spell, a remains in play caster buff.

Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 6 you are granted an additional power dice.

[*]Missiles:
[*]Curses:
[*]Buffs:
[*]Direct damage:
[*]Power whirls:
Purple Sun. A crystal sphere drifting above the battlefield. It uses the 3 inch template, moving artillerydice multiplied by 3 inches from the wizard into a chosen direction. Each model touched has to pass a I-test or is removed from play.

And the other rumours:

[*]Each spell can be cast once per magic phase, regardless of how many casters there are. - Avian says this is possibly speculation.

SHOOTING

Single models have a 180 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 90 degrees arc of sight.

Fire in 2 ranks.

[*]All missile weapons fire in 2 ranks as standard
[*]Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills. -Harry I think

Salvo Fire

[*] Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots. Salvo fire only applies if you haven't moved and not when you stand and shoot.

Look Out Sir!

I have yet to get this confirmed, take with salt:

"Look out, Sir!": Characters that are in the vicinity of a friendly unit may profit from Look out, Sir - so you do not have to join a unit for that rule to apply.

The roll won't always be successful on a 2+ - this depends on the size of the character compared to the friendly unit:

Normal Infantry character inside Infantry unit
Normal Cavalry character inside Cavalry unit
Normal Monstrous Infantry character inside Monstrous Infantry unit

All the above are 2+ save as normal

I believe characters on cavalry mounts inside infantry units are saved on a 4+ instead.

Characters within 3" max. distance away from the unit get something like a 5+ save. Since they're dropping Unit Strength I don't know what the upper size limit would be on this.

True Line of sight

[*]Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines

[*]Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.

Shooting a cannon

[*]You nominate a spot then roll the two artillery dice for bounces. If you hit a unit, the strength decreases like a bolt thrower's bolt, starting at S10. If the first bounce hits a wall, the shot is wasted but the wall is destroyed.

Stone Thrower

[*]Reduced to S3(9), armour saves are allowed.

Warmachines and special wargear:

Warmachines and special wargear (Cauldron of Blood, Anvil of Doom, Casket of Souls etc) will all have a combined Wounds profile now, similar to the Skaven Warplightning Cannon.

All shooting is directed against the machines toughness, all close combat attacks are directed against Crews WS/Toughness.

The number of wounds the warmachine has is equal to total wounds of the crew. Independent Characters may no longer join Warmachine crews, Engineers can only guide the machines from up to 3” away.

Warmachines and special wargear in combat:

Warmachines are not immune to poison anymore.

While in close combat 6 Infantry OR 3 Cavalry OR 2 Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry or 1 Monster/ Ridden Monster can attack the warmachine. You may combine these (eg 1 Monstrous Infantry, I cavalry and 1 Infantry model may attack).

For characters using special wargear (e.g. the Death Hag with the Cauldron, or Runelord with the Anvil), the combat abilities of the guardians are added to the hero's profile, along with their wounds.

Change to Wound table

[*]All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Supportive Attacks

[*]Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
[*]This is only for models fighting to the front. Units charged in the flank or rear only fight in 1 rank, but being charged in the flank or rear will not stop units fighting in multiple ranks to the front.
[*]Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
[*]Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
[*]Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
[*]This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with a maximum of 3 attacks per model from the second rank (more likely).

Make Way

[*]After charges, before even impact hits are done, a champion can move to the front of the attacked rank.

Cavalry

[*]Riders only in the second rank may attack.

Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people

[*]Casualties are strictly removed from the back. A unit only loses attacks if it runs out of replacement models in the rank in base contact. [extremely likely].

Horde

[*]10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. Monstrous infantry like Ogres need to be only 6 wide to benefit from this rule. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian

Stubborn

[*]If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry

Unit Strength

[*]Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian

Rank bonuses

[*]Unchanged. Up to 3.

Monstrous Creatures

[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).

Crush them! or Stomp, one of these names

[*]Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength (includes Great Eagles and Disks). (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.) This does not replace impact hits. 1 rank only.

Destroy them! or Thunderstomp, one of these names

[*]Larger Creatures and Monsters do D6 attacks instead of 1 attack for crush them. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.) This does not replace impact hits.

Striking in Initiative order

[*]Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).

Chariots

[*]S7 autokill is gone. - Avian (more likely)

One Save..

[*]I'm just going to move this back here again for now. Armour saves as normal, then either Ward Saves OR regeneration. This is coming from 1 person who has read the book, and another who has been very eliable in the past.

Outnumbering Enemy

[*]There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution

[*]Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Change to Wound table

[*]All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

Breath Weapons

[*]Monsters with a breath weapon may use it once per battle in either the shooting phase (no partials under the template) OR once in combat, with 2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength in combat. This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.

Parry

[*]The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save.

It is not a second ward save (afaik).
It is not a ward save ontop of an armour save (afaik)
It does not stack (afaik).

Overrunning

[*]When you destroy an enemy unit you can either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking.

WEAPONS

Combat Weapons

[*]Great weapons Always strike last (this overrides any army book rules). Can be used in 2 ranks!
[*]Cavalry armed with Great Weapons have +2 Strength

Missile Weapons

[*]Longbows Same. See shooting above for more rules.
[*]Pistols have 12" range.

Quick to Fire

[*]Pistols, thrown weapons, and blowpipes Dont suffer the -1 to hit while moving. These are also the only weapons you can stand and shoot with if the enemy charges you from within their basic movement range.

PSYCHOLOGY

Panic

[*]Seems to be unchanged. Panic is now the only thing listed under 'psychology', everything else is a special rule.

SPECIAL RULES

[*]The number of universal special rules has doubled. Presumably this is just drawing in some from the army books themselves.

[*]Units can reroll all leadership tests within 12" of the battle standard.
[*]If the General is on a Large Target mount the Ld range is 18” instead.

Stubborn

[*]Stubborn units can use the general's leadership for break tests if within 12".

Fear

[*]Fear tests are taken at the start of every combat phase.
[*]If you fail the Fear test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well. Edit; it may be you get to keep your full amount of attacks.
[*]Fear does not make enemies flee.

Terror

[*]Terror tests are taken at the start of every combat phase, the current limit of one Terror test per game is removed.

[*]If you fail the Terror test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well. Edit; it may be you get to keep your full amount of attacks. Terror incorporates fear

- Like now you need to take a Terror test if charged by a Terror causer. If failed you flee.
- The other two things Terror does (test to charge a Terror causer and test if within 6" of Terror causer at the start of a turn) are removed

[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
[*]Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
[*]Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).

Killing Blow

[*]Whenever you roll a 6 to wound, a model looses all remaining wounds. No Armour Saves or regeneration may be taken. It may only be used against: Infantry, anything on a cavalry base, or characters riding monster/chariot.

Heroic Killing Blow

[*]Whenever you roll a 6 to wound, a model looses all remaining wounds. No Armour Saves or regeneration may be taken. At the moment it appears this can be used against anything…

Note that something that is immune to Killing Blow is also immune to Heroic Killing Blow.

Always Strike Last

[*]Models with great weapons will always strike last

Always Strike First

[*]ASL combined with ASF cancel each other out. Strike in initiative order.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy

[*]+1 attack all the time (front rank only for regular infantry and cavalry).

What I am hearing about this is that if the enemy is within Movement +12”, you have to take a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Mounts no longer are granted frenzy/hated/etc from riders.

Magic Resistance

[*]This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

For things that already have a Ward Save, Flesh Hounds for instance, they have a 5+ Ward save already, and MR(3). This gives them a 5+ save against shooting/ combat, and a 2+ Ward Save against magic.

It seems magic resistance does not work at all against Curses (or Hexes), only against magic missiles, direct damage and power whirls.

Strider..(insert type of terrain)

[*]A new special rule. This allows you to treat the type of terrain in brackets as open terrain. For instance Strider (Forests). There is a plain Strider that allows you to treat everything as open terrain (presumably not buildings).

Regeneration

[*]Regeneration will come in several types. The Slanns ability for example will grant him Regeneration (3+), while there is a mundane magic item that grants regeneration (6+).

Flaming attacks play a much bigger role. People with flaming weapons cause Fear in War Beasts (hounds etc), chariots, and Monsters. When you have regeneration and are wounded by flaming attacks, you lose regeneration until the next phase (combat to combat for example).

MAGIC ITEMS

[*]Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.

[*]10-20 items in each category.

Dwarfs and Daemons of Chaos do not have access to Common Magic Items. Army book values for magic items override the Rulebook if different.

Staff of Channelling Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6
Screaming Blade: Bearer causes Fear
Potion of Strength: 20 points, +D3 Strength for one turn
Potion of Toughness: 20 points, +D3 Toughness for one turn
Foldable Tower: 100pts. Enchanted item. The bearer of this item may place a tower in his deployment zone at the beginning of game.!?
Banner: There is a magical standard that lets you reroll the charge distance (or one die, not sure which)
Scarecrow: Banner. 5 Points, makes the unit cause fear to flyers.
(name?): Banner. Plain Strider, which means you ignore all terrain (except buildings I think).
Dispel Scroll: As normal.

There are some other Scrolls I keep hearing about, but I don't know the full details yet:
4+ ward against wounds done by the spell used.
Irresistible force on every double.
Something about turning someone into a frog..:eyebrows:

OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS

[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.

[*]15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required units to capture objectives (not just core). Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

[*]Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.

[*]A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles

Terrain

[*]D6+4 compulsory terrain.
[*]Terrain will not just affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
[*]The rulebook includes terrain rules for all the GW products.
[*]There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous. Cavalry treat all non-open terrain as Dangerous Terrain

Dangerous Terrain

[*]Roll D6 for every model, on a 1 it loses a wound

Forests

[*]Roll a D6 the first[u/] time any model enters a forest, the forest will stay like this for the rest of the battle. Note that the numbers for the roles below may not actually be the numbers, but the effects are;

1 = Regular Forest
2 = Ghostly Forest - a unit standing in it causes Fear
3 = Blood Forest - if magic is cast on a unit standing in the forest it suffers 1d6 hits at S4, and then the forest moves 2d6" into a random direction…
4 = Mushroom Forest - all units in it have Stupidity, except for Goblins, who become Stubborn.
5 = Poisonous Forest – it is treated as ‘dangerous terrain’. The unit standing in it has Poisoned attacks.
6 = Finding a magic item in the woods.? Or this one could be a unit charging out of a cursed forest causes fear.

[*]Cavalry [u]always treats a forest as ‘dangerous terrain’ (see above), regardless of what type of forest it is.
[*]Fighting in woods is -1 CR for ranked infantry and +1 CR for skirmishers. Might be worse for cavalry. – Avian

Rivers

[*]Seems this will be similar to forests, you make a role to see what type of river it is.
One of them is Blood Flow, which makes the unit that attacks from the river cause fear.

Arcane Ruins

[*]Arcane Ruines allow a mage in rage to roll up to 4 dices for channelling.

Rulebook Scenarios

The scenarios in the rulebook are split into Battles and Missions. Missions are not intended to be used in Tournaments.

Battles
[*]Pitched Battle
[*]Battle of the Pass
[*]Hold the Temple

Missions
[*]Invasion of Chrace

Battle: Battle of the Pass
The rules for this are on the throne of skulls website I think.

Battle: Hold the Temple
A Chaos temple is in the middle of the battlefield. Before the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any unit (not just Core) there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)

Discredited rumours
Fight-until-someone-breaks
Lapping around
Armour Save Modifiers changing. They’re not.
Standard Bearer does not allow you to re-roll one of the charging dice

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Sounding interesting, but still not 100% convinced myself on most of the rumours, particularly the Fear/Terror rules. No longer auto-break when beaten by outnumbering Fear Causers seriously knackers Undead players right now, as the typical gist of their success in combat comes from just that. They don't duff you over horribly, just enough, and then you poop yourself and leg it.

Variable charge reach though...whether it's true or not I LIKE! Works beautifully in War Of The Ring...

Also, no marching for Heavy Cavalry? Not sure I believe that one at all.

But time shall tell!

**Necros**

Thanks. Please keep this post updated so we don't have to weed through 12,000 wishlisty posts to find what we need

**Grimhowl**

I like some things, not sure about others. Hopefully aspects of it will become more concrete soon.
I like Missile troops all firing in two ranks, means they will take up less real-estate on the table to still be effective. I really like the idea of random Charge distance, I hope this stays.
I'm intrigued by the distinction between heavy and medium cavalry, I'd like to see this make it.
Now all of that is from someone who hasn't played the current edition at all, but I'm starting to get interested in Fantasy again.

**Karon**

Please not that blue, I can barely read it, if at all.

Doubt a lot of these rumors, including variable charge distance, just to unreliable, and makes skill less important when you can just get a lucky assault.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Makes it harder and more tactical though, as you can work out the average, and try to stay out of it. After all, you'll be wanting to charge at some point, so it's quite important whether you risk a long range charge, or try to bait your opponent. Not knowing is a lot more tactical than a sure thing.

**ShivanAngel**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Makes it harder and more tactical though, as you can work out the average, and try to stay out of it. After all, you'll be wanting to charge at some point, so it's quite important whether you risk a long range charge, or try to bait your opponent. Not knowing is a lot more tactical than a sure thing.

I disagree. The way it is now its very tactical, and predicatable.

The new way its more like bs, he stupidly went for the charge and got a 6.

Or all i needed was a 2 and rolled a 1.

WHFB does not need any more randomness then it already has.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I seriously think the decision between a long range charge, or playing it safe adds a lot more depth to your manouvering.

**Karon**

The thing is, though, that it adds such a tedious roll when we already have a very reliable and tactical thing in place right now.

I don't see a fluff reason, or any reason for that matter, to change the system, especially in this way.

And really, it's not any more tactically involving. Say I do play it safe, I am 7 inches away from him with my Gors with M5. I didn't go for a long charge, I played it safe.

So I roll, and I get a

Too unreliable.

**ShivanAngel**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I seriously think the decision between a long range charge, or playing it safe adds a lot more depth to your manouvering.

Appears so, I dont believe it adds depth tho, i believe it adds luck.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Though I guess Frenzy throws this into some doubt, as if I don't know my Charge Reach, surely they would have to change the compulsory charge thingy?

Which just goes to confirm my status as seeing most of these rumours as wishlisting.

**ShivanAngel**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Though I guess Frenzy throws this into some doubt, as if I don't know my Charge Reach, surely they would have to change the compulsory charge thingy?

Which just goes to confirm my status as seeing most of these rumours as wishlisting.

It would make frenzy incredibly crippling if they did it this way. (more then it can be now if your oppenent has fast calv and is smart)

The rule would have to look something like, if the unit is within your max charge range (whatever it is plus the D6) then you have to attemp to charge them... Then you just force them to charge and laugh when they dont get a 6.

I can already run frenzied units around the table with dark riders.

**Grimstonefire**

@Karon

Apparently "lime" here is actually blue, and "red" is green...

I really hate that as well, it's only small editing to change it, so I will try and do that each time.

If what I have been told is true, there are a great many smaller changes that are coming that have not been discussed yet. Basically they have looked at everything.

**Flashman**

Combat - is going to make my head hurt.

Magic - Sounds like fun, but I guess we Skaven already have our "Mega Spell" (They should limit this to Lord Level Wizards if only for fluff reasons)

Shooting - Somebody (may as well be me) should point out that High Elves currently do not have shoot in two ranks. I would have made certain shooting weapons (i.e. bows) able to carry out indirect fire. All ranks can shoot, but only hit on a 5+ or something.

Cavalry - Impact hits I tell you! This is what cavalry does! Oh well, if it doesn't happen, not a major issue for my rats

Fire - Got do something more interesting than cancel out regeneration (though with the prevalence of this rule in 7th, who goes into battle without a flaming sword these days?!) and incinerate treemen/tomb kings. Indeed this latter rule is kind of a hang up from when poison only hurt alive units (which I preferred, but pick your direction GW!). Anyway, flaming attacks/wounds cause panic perhaps?

Magic again - Low level wizards should only roll a D3 when selecting spells thus denying them the last 3 spells in table which tend to be more powerful. We tend to play this as a house rule anyway, stops small games being decided by spells with disproportionate effects.

**Platuan4th**

Grimstonefire wrote:Killing Blow
# [*]Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)

Interesting if true. Would be kinda cool is BT was able to KB Dragons and the like.

**Grimstonefire**

I have read about impact hits somewhere, but I think they need to charge over a certain distance or something.

Could have been cavalry 1
Ogre sized D3
Large creature D6

If I can find the place it was posted I may ask around.

**RiTides**

Grimstonefire wrote:[*]15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required Core units to capture objectives. Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

Ugh, I hope it isn't true about them needing a banner to capture objectives! I only take dryads for core (forest spirit wood elves) and they can't have banners...

Thanks for compiling this! A lot of it looks great, I'm getting excited for the new edition!

**efarrer**

Grimstonefire wrote:
[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
This is looking more like 25% max characters, 25% min core, 25% max special and 25% max rare (anonymous source, but trustworthy ) The 25% characters includes mounts.

Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.

[*]Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
[*]There *may* be something to prevent spamming...
[*]There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
.

You know, I've been hosed by edition changes before but if these percentages are right I'm done.

**Grimstonefire**

All good generals need to adapt. There will be a long period of adjustment as people relearn how to use their armies again, but the essential fact that it should be a fun game remains.

**Necros**

Grimstonefire wrote:All good generals need to adapt. There will be a long period of adjustment as people relearn how to use their armies again, but the essential fact that it should be a fun game remains.

that's how it is for every new edition and new codex or army book.

Folks complain that they need an update. Then they get an update and complain about it.

**Kirasu**

Those who stick with it, adapt and actually play the game also get cheap armies on ebay!

**efarrer**

Grimstonefire wrote:All good generals need to adapt. There will be a long period of adjustment as people relearn how to use their armies again, but the essential fact that it should be a fun game remains.

I wrote a much nastier set of thoughts up and then ruined it by deciding to think and post why I think this edition will fail as badly as the preceding one. I should note I'm no GW apologist- I wasn't when I worked for them and I'm not now.

1. On percentages and other caps
Reducing the interest in buying models always strikes me as a poor choice for a company that sells models.
Let's take characters as an example...
Characters and Special characters are nearly pure gold for the company- so long as they can sell them. The percentage caps would limit characters to no more then 500 points in a 2000 point army. Now it's possible the plan is to inch the bar higher (3000 maybe) but again this is problematic- the higher the bar the lower the chance of the intro player buying in. The current minimum entry point is about 400 Canadian for a 2000 point army. How much higher do they want to push that?

2. Edition fatigue
The games problem is that it's not really a good game now and I would argue it never was a great game (sales numbers since 40K arrived tend to argue my point for me). It's playable but poorly constructed and cynicism suggests that this edition is just going to be a continuation of the not a games company syndrome. Nothing in the press releases suggests to me that the company is at all interested in the game itself as a product other then as a way to sell more product. The edition fatigue is creates another economic flaw short term sales help the bottom line short term...not long term. Every edition change I have seen the company make for fantasy has resulted in fewer players. Is it the editions or the changing market? I'm not sure.

3. The problem isn't the game.
THe problem with the current edition is not the game. It's the piecemeal approach that the armybook design process that the company uses is hurting the game end. This remains a huge problem in both systems set in the GW universes, and it's compounded by a lack of willingness to address issues of balance outside of the codex release cycle. Often this results in edition changes which "nerf " armies out of apparent spite. Leading to more lost players.

**Matt Varnish**

If I recall the good ole days of Smoking Gun, Eddie, didnt we all have that 25% character restriction for Jeff's big campaigns?

I haven't played very much 7th Fantasy, focusing mainly on 40k, but me and some friends are eagerly awaiting 8th, hopefully it can address some of the inherent army book balances, since I hear that its pretty bad right now.

I guess we'll know in a few months...

**Kanluwen**

Flashman wrote:
Shooting - Somebody (may as well be me) should point out that High Elves currently do not have shoot in two ranks. I would have made certain shooting weapons (i.e. bows) able to carry out indirect fire. All ranks can shoot, but only hit on a 5+ or something.

Cavalry - Impact hits I tell you! This is what cavalry does! Oh well, if it doesn't happen, not a major issue for my rats

I love these ideas, and would also like to submit that pretty much every army be able to get a "Flaming" upgrade for their Archers.

**efarrer**

Matt Varnish wrote:If I recall the good ole days of Smoking Gun, Eddie, didnt we all have that 25% character restriction for Jeff's big campaigns?

I haven't played very much 7th Fantasy, focusing mainly on 40k, but me and some friends are eagerly awaiting 8th, hopefully it can address some of the inherent army book balances, since I hear that its pretty bad right now.

I guess we'll know in a few months...

It may be the scarcity of games of Fantasy in the city I live in that is driving my pessimism.

And you could be right about Jeff's rules for the campaigns. I like characters though and don't really want to see them more diminished. To me, they give a lot of the fantasy element to the games.

**BorderCountess**

Too many of those 'changes' sound wish-listy. A number of them also seem to make the game more random (like the 2D6 power dice and the random charge moves). If I want a random army, I'll play Skaven or O&G.

I fail to see why the magic phase is getting so much attention. Sure, some armies are a little over the top, but wouldn't it be better to address those armies?

And the percentages seems outright wrong. For starters, the last time GW did that with WHFB, the percentages were listed in each book and they were all different: not all armies can viably do 25% Core (ie, all forms of Elves) or limit themselves to 25% Characters (ie, Warriors of Chaos, or ANYBODY RIDING A DRAGON)

Overall, a lot of those 'changes' make me cringe and feel like I'm looking at a completely different game, which is not a good thing.

**Hulksmash**

It fixed 40k. Maybe it'll fix Fantasy too

**Chimera_Calvin**

The cynic in me would have to suggest that the reason for the 25% character restriction is to make people buy more models for their army - 3-4 models making up half your points does not equal the sound of a GW cash register going ker-ching!!!!

Also, it now means that those people with the uber-characters riding dragons (or whatever) can only use them if they go and buy a crapton more RnF to fill up their army (1000points of characters - that means 3000 on other stuff!)

But having said all that, I think this is a genuinely good thing. I started with 3rd editon but never really bothered with 4th and 5th as it was just rock-paper-scissors with your heroes. 6th pulled me back in with the move away from herohammer, but 7th (more to do with the army books than the core rules, to be fair) has disillusioned me again.

If these rumours turn out to be true, the game will go back to being about the army, not the characters and I'm willing to give it one last try. If not, I'll have a load of Dwarfs for sale...

**Minsc**

Only going to touch on ones I haven't commented on in my megapost earlier:

Grimstonefire wrote:
More reliable rumours

[*]Strength in Depth/ Stepping up
[*]Crush attack for larger creatures
[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks.
[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook.
[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.

1) I see little harm in how the rule stands right now, but it does bear potential for abuse depending on its actual set-up (if it's even there). 1 Attack / Model isn't too bad, but 1 Attack + Special Rules - or worse, full attacks w/ special rules - could easily muck things up. I can see this influencing games, but not being a game breaker.

2) I'm so-so about this, mainly because monsters are already a big thing in WHFB. Giving them even more hits seems like a way to make them even more unassailable. Could be a gamebreaker, but need more info first.

3) I can't honestly complain about this rule. I don't think there's many players who would complain that the 40mm base Ogres need a 120mm front to get a rank - it's still 20 more than 20mm models, and only five less than a 25mm model's front. It will influence a lot of games and lists, however. Would four-by-two Ogre units get +2 Combat Res (+1 for Rank, +1 for Additional Column)?

4) While a few objective-based scenarios are good (every game needs some variety), the rumors that they'll be the majority of the scenarios and require standards do not appeal to me. For some armies, it is - by its very nature - a gamebreaker as the army can't win any more sans a massacre of their opponent before the end of Turn 6 (Clan Eshin Skaven, Forest Spirit armies, several Skink lists, and so on). While in some cases (Skink & Stegadon-heavy lists) this is a good way to reduce "cheese", in others it's just kicking an army in the shins and capering off giggling at their misfortune.

5) If they're trying to tone down magic, why would they give Teclis the possibility of using up to 20 Power Dice in a single turn if fielded alone? Lord Kroak 14? This also looks like it's going to fit around the "3K Point Tournament" rumor, as it's an overkill in terms of dice for under that and a shortage for extremely large games wherein each side might be using dozens of wizards (of course, them having to plan for such a game isn't exactly a must).

6) I can both see why they would and why they shouldn't break this. On one hand, being outnumbered three-to-one by a Fear-causing unit should be terrifying. On the other, I don't think 25 Swordsmen are going to care that there's one more Zombie in the other unit than there are Swordsmen. Working fear to be akin to the old Outnumber bonus in 40K when it comes to combat resolution (Fear = +1 by Default, Terror +2, if they outnumber 2:1 it's another +1, outnumber 3:1 it's +2, and so on. Example being a fear causing unit outnumbers you three to one, they get +4 Combat Resolution as they outnumber (1), cause fear (1), and outnumber 3:1 (2))? Does anyone see a big problem with what I'm saying?

Grimstonefire wrote:Other rumours (and description of above)

These are all listed in no particular order.

ARMY SELECTION

[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.

50% special would seem too much to me. I mean, I can understand giving more than only 25% (otherwise there'd be no difference between Special and Rare), but allowing 1,500pts of a 3K point game to be in special would just encourage some very nasty units to be fielded. It would do nothing to encourage using more than the minimal of core than the current edition (25% crammed into characters, 50% into Special, then the last 25% eeked out in Core).

Grimstonefire wrote:MAGIC

[*]Giving irresistible force a downside
[*]Double 6 = a miscast
[*]Making miscasts much more devastating.
[*]Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
[*]All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell.
[*]Spells can be chosen, not rolled for.

1) I'm not going to call it a gamebreaker (there's very few lists that're reliant on getting Irresistable Force castings), but it could cause some interesting changes. Need to see more details to judge.

2) How this would work I don't know. Mainly because something would have to be done to keep Irresistable (unless it's a Miscast-only possibility?), and without double-6's I can't think of something. Need 3 of a kind? Need to see more details to reach final conclusion.

3) Could be a gamebreaker, most likely just interesting changes. Need to see more details to judge.

4) This strongly discourages the 2D6 thing. Why? You would never field mages in anything under than Lord levels then. Could you imagine two Level 2 Wizards trying to put off 14 Power Dice in a single turn? Let alone whatever they couldn't use from the prior turn?

5) Do we need Mega-Spells? Really? I mean, I can see them for Special Characters and the like (that isn't something new), but giving every army the option to cast some "Yeah, your unit is dead, bye-bye" spell? Seems a bit much. Especially with how it'd work with stuff like Tomb Kings - would they be the only army that couldn't use the Mega Spells, and thus be at a major handicap?

6) Better just be a rumor, otherwise most Orc players will probably just take Bash 'em Ladz, Warpath, Fists, and Waaagh!. Goblins would pretty much always have Brain Bursta / Mork'll Fix It level 2's. I can see Tzeentch players having a field day with this as well.

Grimstonefire wrote:

[*]There's no limit to the number of dice used to cast a spell, by any level of caster.
[*]If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts
[*]Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)
[*]Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells)
[*]A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters.
[*]If a wizard fail to cast a spell he can't cast other spells in the same phase.

1) Best not be the case. While it'd negate the "How can a Level 2 Wizard use up 7 dice in one turn?" problem, it would then open a whole slew of new problems. Chiefly, hoarding power dice to spam a Mega-Spell each turn, likely with some re-roll item to negate a second one should it pop up.

2) In the same turn, or the same game? Big difference, and I'd need to see the details. As with the above rule, however, it could be a nigh-gamebreaker.

3) Dispel Dice adding to the pool instead of dispelling does not look favorable to me for several reasons. Chiefly, +2 dice is pretty much a Level 1 Caster's spell. It'll tone down their effectiveness (and I never used them much anyways as I felt having a pile of 6 +1-to-dispel dice was better at 2K and under), but possibly too much (IMO).

4) I can sorta see what's going on here, would need to see some details.

5) Multiple casters? Does that mean the more casters on the board equal more miscasts? Or are they hinting at "linking" wizards to cast spells? Need more details.

6) Mutually exclusive against one interpretation of #2 (Twice in the same turn), and similarly tones down the impact of many miscasts (ones that end the Caster's magic phase right there).

Grimstonefire wrote:COMBAT
Horde

Fight in 3 ranks if 10+ wide (4 with spears). - Avian.
OR
Some benefit to fighting in large units, may automatically become stubborn beyond a certain unit size. – Harry - (edit) seemingly confirmed from another source).

Another edit: Seems this Horde rule may work like this:
If the unit is 10+ wide and 5 ranks deep (50+ models) the front 2 ranks may all fight, regardless of whether they are in base contact. My guess is that this is using their regular weapons (not just a hand weapon), as it would explain how people have got up to 5 ranks in combat (2 front, Spears = 3, Citizen levy = 4, Horde = 5). At this stage just another rumour.

Mixed response from me. On one hand, I can see the reason to give a benefit to units that're 40 or 50 big (both from a business and gameplay standpoint). However, similarly, this could make them stupidly dangerous (block of Chaos Warriors w/ Ld 9 Lord, fighting in 2 Ranks, is Stubborn, and has +7 combat resolution for numbering 36 bringing their total base to 8 pre-magic banner or outnumber, as well as pre-wound). Need to see details for it before I can give a verdict.

Grimstonefire wrote:Rank bonuses

[*]A unit may still get up to +3 for being 5 wide. A new rumour is that they can get an additional rank bonus up to +4 for each additional model wide that they are. (awaiting confirmation, if this is true, on how it will work.

One Save to ruin them all!

[*]Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!

40mm models

1) Could be game-breaking, sounds interesting. Need to hear more on it.

2) I am not fond of this, but I can also see why they'd remove it. While it makes sense to have some characters nigh-unkillable, that they can't combine saves would just render some wargear options pointless (an armor save that can never be reduced below a certain value, for instance, would ruin any need for a Ward Save). In return, it'd also cut down on stuff like characters with a 1+ save / 3+ ward combo or something akin.

And I can't work on my opinion on any other rumors ATM.

**ShivanAngel**

I will point out i like the one save thing.

I play dark elves and even though i do it to be competitive, i think its incredibly cheesy to say this every time....

Ok 2+ armor but if that fails

Reverse ward, all i have to do is roll lower then the attacks strength, but if that fails

i have a 4+ regen save......

On a s4 attack that equals about a 3-4% chance for a hit to wound. Now the dreadlords WS is 7, so odds are you will only hit him with normal RnF on a 4+ so the real chance to actually do a wound on him is about 2 %.

I miss the days 6-7 years ago where it actually looked like an army on the table, now it looks like a dragon on the table, with 3-5 other small units.

And on to the magic phase....
I run at time a heavy magic DE list (lvl 4 sorc and 2 lvl 2 sorcs)
The other day i miscast my first spell of turn 2 or 3 and it ended my magic phase. That LOST me the game since my magic was completely devastating him. If you make the penalties larger you will hurt some of the magic reliant armies ( like DE) however the armies that have insane magic really wont be that effected.