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Choose between these two? That would require some kind of tactical geniu-CREEEEEEEEEEED!!!


SM are more of a beginners army, being able to do anything any other army can do (tactics-wise) but guard get the biggest guns and the most troops, and are really fun air cavalry forces and the deathstrikes (which got released for advance order today-hoorah!!) have a huge psychological effect on your opponent, being the most powerful non-apoc weapon in the game and are hilarious to play with. Guard can be customised the most and get zillions of troops, which is why I chose them. So I would go with guard.

Not to mention Marbo and his demo charge (which seems to bounce of rocks and hit him alot)

Basically, if you're looking for a forgiving army with a comparatively small number of models (and therefore pricetag!), Marines are a good choice.

If you're looking for an army that can be a little tougher to play, but can do some truly absurd things (such as the 18 tanks list in 2000, or going the other end of the scale the army that can get off over 500 shots in a single round of shooting (still at 2000!)) then the Guard are a good call.

Both armies are good, and both have a large amount of customisability, so really it's just down to preference. However, there is a reason Space Marines are a popular beginner choice - and it's not *just* the ridiculous marketing put into them.

I was in the same position as you a few months back, deciding between Space Marines and Imperial Guard, and I chose Guard. I am very happy with my chooce. It is fun to have so many options in an army; like having 50 men at 200pts. with Conscripts and then having the best all-round tanks in the game with the 7 Leman Russ tank types. You can do both a swarm army or a tank company. Guard is also much less played then Marines. In my game store about 1/4 of the people play some type of Marines as their main army, but it seams like everyone else has Marines as their secondary army. They also have some awsome characters, like Yarrick who gets back up with 1 Wound if he rolls a 3+ after losing his last wound. The Space Marines are very bland when compaired to the Guard and all their options.

If you do go with guard, just make sure you don't field conscripts. There is little to no point in it.

Now if I go with SM, what chapter would be recommended for a new player, or is Vanilla Marines the way to go?

Apostle Pat wrote:Now if I go with IG, what regiment would be recommended for a new player, or is Cadian Shock troopers the way to go?

fixed it for you.
lol

ROFLMAO, oh dont worry I'm still up in the air on this one cause I'm definitely loving the idea of tanks and artillery from the IG, plus the fact that none of the people I play with have an IG army so it would bring something new to the Meta.

have you seen the new leman russ kit and deathstrike/manticore kit being released next month?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1430059&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Tank tank tank tank tank tank tankity tank...


For some reason, I just mentally heard "WHAT have you done to my Bonaparte!?!? Is that a SCRATCH???? KILL!"


Edit: JUMPIN' JEHOSHAPHAT! Pask is 10 dollars???? For a BIT? F that! I'll make him out of my huge pile of bits!

Hahaha, actually I was just looking at them like ten minutes ago, and to be honest I'm completely in love with them.

Say I'm playing the IG against my friend who plays Tau, hes got a Devilfish and a Hammerhead that's equipped with some giant cannon that I forget the name of offhand but going against a very shooty type army he has what would I field using the IG?

IG vas Tau? Field some Russes. And Guardsmen with Autocannons / MLs. Shoot the hell out of his flying tanks. Once those are down, you can just drop Plates on his head until he cries "uncle".

Apostle Pat wrote:Now if I go with SM, what chapter would be recommended for a new player, or is Vanilla Marines the way to go?

Well, all of the chapters offer something interesting. The good thing about the marines is they don't really have an identity until they are painted (and never have an identity if you create your own scheme), so you could experiment with any Chapter rules you want. Space Wolves are a bit of an exception, as they are the most divergent chapter in terms of army composition and the equipment they use. Same could be said for Blood Angels if you have a thing for combat dreadnoughts and assault marines. I'm not mentioning the Storm Raven, because I expect they will get a model with the upcoming Grey Knights codex. Codex Space Marines arguably have the most flexibility in what kind of army you field, and I'd recommend them for a new player to become familiar with the game and what works and what doesn't, as all the crazy (and expensive) options available to Wolves and Angels can be overwhelming for a new player and many first (and second and third and...) attempts result in absolutely terrible lists.

If you are really torn, I'd browse the GW store and make your decision based on how you like the models. Whether the clean Imperial look of standard and stern/vanguard marines, the savage look of the Space Wolves, or the highly ornate and baroque (or gaudy and overwrought, depending on your taste) style of the Blood Angels. The Wolves and Angels books also lend themselves pretty well to representing degenerate Chaos warbands (filthy heretics!), so you even have the option of throwing some Chaos models into the mix.

Apostle Pat wrote:Now if I go with SM, what chapter would be recommended for a new player, or is Vanilla Marines the way to go

I personnally like white scars, being IMO the best looking and the most shouty and plus I love bikers. But thats my op. Really it comes down to taste.

I was thinking along the lines of SM with their own codex, I haven't seen one for the white scars, more like Blood Angels or the Black Templars.

Apostle Pat wrote:I was thinking along the lines of SM with their own codex, I haven't seen one for the white scars, more like Blood Angels or the Black Templars.

Of the ones deemed special enough to have their own codex I agree with what Terminus said. The regular SM codex has alot of flexibility in it, and gives you the options to make an army of all the chapters that dont have their own codex. Not to mention taking any one of the different special characters can completely change up your army in different directions.


An example would be your White scars comment, but if you open the Regular SM codex then you will see that if you take the White scars special character (or just a captain with a bike) then you can take bike squads as troop choices, completely changing up the army with that one choice, and now you have some white scars.

LordRavvage wrote:

Apostle Pat wrote:I was thinking along the lines of SM with their own codex, I haven't seen one for the white scars, more like Blood Angels or the Black Templars.

Of the ones deemed special enough to have their own codex I agree with what Terminus said. The regular SM codex has alot of flexibility in it, and gives you the options to make an army of all the chapters that dont have their own codex. Not to mention taking any one of the different special characters can completely change up your army in different directions.


An example would be your White scars comment, but if you open the Regular SM codex then you will see that if you take the White scars special character (or just a captain with a bike) then you can take bike squads as troop choices, completely changing up the army with that one choice, and now you have some white scars.

Hurmmm I definitely like that quite a bit, having the choice to throw in a chapter that doesn't have its own Codex, much thanks on the helpful comments guys

Yeah.
I would do a DIY chapter though, as they are always awesome. You can make home-brewed fluff, and make a Malrenus Calgar mini count as Chapter Master (Insert Witty and Interesting Name here).

And then you paint them however your wish.

sm have quite a bit of options, but they just fall into a few options that everyone has played or is playing. which doesn't make your army very interesting i feel. with IG you can go down the tank heavy or man heavy but you can also look at all the odd units and format a weird army that could work, such as psykers with artillery, or vets melta with chimera, or air cav. these lists might not all be new, but are def less played then their space marine counterparts. i would rather have, and do have XD, an army which when you look at it you aren't like oh i've fought this army 20 times already, it has the same units basically which seems to happen with SM since SO MANY PEOPLE playthem haha

SM is popular because of their toughness and elite stature,they also have the toughest tank in the game! hehehe..
IG is still my first army though,really fun to play with considering they're really squishy compared to just about everybody,highly customizable depends on how you want to play them. Heavy infantry or full of psykers,your call. All in all really great army to have,expensive though. Lots of tanks and men always equal lots of money to build up.

Space wolves are my second army,all terminators!

IMHO, for beginners it's always the marines as an easy choice,really forgiving plus really tough to boot.

marines are NOT really forgiving... they are in fact one of the most unforgiving armies out there, against competent opponents. Guard are far more forgiving of mistakes in unit placement. If you loose a unit of marines because you underestimated the distance to a target, your out 200+ points. If you loose a unit of guard, who cares? you have 100 more men.

marines heaviest hitting units are extremely fragile (thunderfire cannons, land speeder typhoons, predators)

sure, they have extremely durable units, but those are VERY expensive, and have manifold counters (land raiders and th/ss terminators both come to mind)

a marine army needs to be built with a goal in mind, a singular purpose. All units in a marine army need to support each other, much more so than in most other races. You can't just plop down a tac squad, rapid fire into a squad of khorne berserkers, and expect to not loose that entire squad (you won't kill enough zerkers, they will charge you, rape will ensue)

If you want to do marines, you need to do one of a few things....
1) entire army in drop pods. you overwhelm a flank with superior firepower, then set up to repel the counter attack. If you don't have enough firepower on landing to collapse an entire side of his army, you will loose. its a high-risk army.
2) entire army mechanized. you need to be able to coordinate your army's strikes, to take down one enemy unit at a time, while denying most of his units the ability to strike back at you. for this, you need rhinos / land raiders, to transport your troops, provide cover, block assaults, and block line of sight from enemies. your marines are very fragile (3+ armor means jack if your taking 20 saves)
3) bring units that can cover a variety of roles. You need units that can switch from anti-infantry to anti-tank firepower, or can do both shooting and assault well. Examples are land speeder typhoons, tactical marines, terminators, sternguard, and dreadnoughts. The ability to deal with multiple target types from one unit greatly enhances your tactical options.

Marines are a very powerful, but you really need to know what your doing, or your going to loose an awful lot of games. Another negative against marines is that they are so common, everyone and their mother knows how to counter them.