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My understanding of plasma is that it is a substance that has so much energy that an otherwise neutral gas exists in an ionized state. In the lab we use an argon gas plasma as an ionization source for atomic spectroscopy ( instead of the old acetylene flame). Actually our branch lab has the instrument sitting in the corner gathering dust because we don't have the hood capacity to deal with all that argon gas, which means about two hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money sitting there, but thats another story.

I buy the shell theory, where a shell from the gun would somehow generate a plasma that was, most importantly, very dense on impact. As someone else mentioned the density is critical because it doesn't just have to be high temperature, it has to contain a great deal of heat, which is not the same thing.

This is more of a heat capacity thing, but I guess it is related: If you take a cake out of the oven, you can touch the cake for a short time, but the metal will burn you very quickly, although they are the same temperature. Again, that is a heat capacity thing but I guess the same kind of thing would happen when comparing two gasses that were very hot, but one is a lot more dense ( therefore a lot more heat, because there is more in a given area). Does that sound right?

In my opinion (and this is not pure fact, its called hard speculation) since it is pretty obvious that the striped thing on top of imperial plasma weapons is a coil, could it be that plasma weapons utilize som sort of tesla coil to diliver the plasma? that could in a way creat the famous, magnetic tunnel envelope thingymabob.

oh and drinking plasma to heal yourself? Valkyria Chronicles beat you to it

Psycho_Mantis wrote:In my opinion (and this is not pure fact, its called hard speculation) since it is pretty obvious that the striped thing on top of imperial plasma weapons is a coil, could it be that plasma weapons utilize som sort of tesla coil to diliver the plasma? that could in a way creat the famous, magnetic tunnel envelope thingymabob.

oh and drinking plasma to heal yourself? Valkyria Chronicles beat you to it

Indeed that is exactly how the magnetic tunnel envelope thingy works. Glad were on the same page.

Grignard wrote: My understanding of plasma is that it is a substance that has so much energy that an otherwise neutral gas exists in an ionized state. In the lab we use an argon gas plasma as an ionization source for atomic spectroscopy ( instead of the old acetylene flame). Actually our branch lab has the instrument sitting in the corner gathering dust because we don't have the hood capacity to deal with all that argon gas, which means about two hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money sitting there, but thats another story.

I buy the shell theory, where a shell from the gun would somehow generate a plasma that was, most importantly, very dense on impact. As someone else mentioned the density is critical because it doesn't just have to be high temperature, it has to contain a great deal of heat, which is not the same thing.

This is more of a heat capacity thing, but I guess it is related: If you take a cake out of the oven, you can touch the cake for a short time, but the metal will burn you very quickly, although they are the same temperature. Again, that is a heat capacity thing but I guess the same kind of thing would happen when comparing two gasses that were very hot, but one is a lot more dense ( therefore a lot more heat, because there is more in a given area). Does that sound right?

The shell idea might be logical, but the plasma weapons in the game do not fire shells, they fire whatever is in those small cells located in front of the trigger on the smaller weapons and what is in the larger cells (such as the backpack mounted ones) for the canons.

What I'd like to know is how the coils on plasma weapons should be done (glowing or not) and what colour they should be. Currently I'm going with blue but others paint theirs differently. I also think that the coils should be darker on the edges rather than the way most do them which is highlighting them. The light source is coming from inside the coils so the edges, being further away from the light source should be darker.

Get out of here with that heretical science! All glory to the Machine God!

cadbren wrote:

Grignard wrote: My understanding of plasma is that it is a substance that has so much energy that an otherwise neutral gas exists in an ionized state. In the lab we use an argon gas plasma as an ionization source for atomic spectroscopy ( instead of the old acetylene flame). Actually our branch lab has the instrument sitting in the corner gathering dust because we don't have the hood capacity to deal with all that argon gas, which means about two hundred thousand dollars of taxpayer money sitting there, but thats another story.

I buy the shell theory, where a shell from the gun would somehow generate a plasma that was, most importantly, very dense on impact. As someone else mentioned the density is critical because it doesn't just have to be high temperature, it has to contain a great deal of heat, which is not the same thing.

This is more of a heat capacity thing, but I guess it is related: If you take a cake out of the oven, you can touch the cake for a short time, but the metal will burn you very quickly, although they are the same temperature. Again, that is a heat capacity thing but I guess the same kind of thing would happen when comparing two gasses that were very hot, but one is a lot more dense ( therefore a lot more heat, because there is more in a given area). Does that sound right?

The shell idea might be logical, but the plasma weapons in the game do not fire shells, they fire whatever is in those small cells located in front of the trigger on the smaller weapons and what is in the larger cells (such as the backpack mounted ones) for the canons.

What I'd like to know is how the coils on plasma weapons should be done (glowing or not) and what colour they should be. Currently I'm going with blue but others paint theirs differently. I also think that the coils should be darker on the edges rather than the way most do them which is highlighting them. The light source is coming from inside the coils so the edges, being further away from the light source should be darker.

I think thats a good idea. Given that 40k is about the models, I'd do what looks cool on a particular model.

All my plasma is glowing from the inside with the outer coils darker.



And the things on the top are cooling coils BTW.

hcordes wrote:Star Trek,
Anti-Matter, Dilythium crystals, warp drive, greatest scientific sounding fictional "science" ever.

LOL at Star Trek's science. My personal favorite use of science was in "Threshold" (What an awful episode). Somehow, going at many times the speed of light turns you into salamanders.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Does everyone have personal sheilds in the books though?

No, but it's not like everybody has it in the games either. Yet a marine from the games can survive several plasma shots, while in the books they're described as burning straight through flak vests and flesh.

They're also incredibly rare, yet everyone seems to have one.

But in the game all Spartans and Elites have them. Isn't it standard issue? Even ODSTs have them.

Plasma's heat could be generated upon firing do to the mixture of chemicals kind of like flamer amo

Necroman wrote:Somehow, going at many times the speed of light turns you into salamanders.

Wait, wait, wait. I've missed something. What?

S_P

its a Star trek reference.

also its Threadomancy.

Nurglitch wrote:So...

If Bolt Guns shoot bolts, and Plasma Guns shoot plasma, then Melta Guns shoot melta, right? I think Kroot Guns just got awesomer.

ok ok so...autoguns..what then?

They shoot autos.

Slug guns of any variety have just became the potentially suckiest gun ever.

S_P

what do you mean?

i would love a gun that fires Beamer's and Prius's

Those silly scientists.

Plasma weapons work because the blessings of the Emperor and the Omnissiah will them to defy the puny laws of phsyics.

It's like the WAAAGH!. They work because the humans all believe in the Emperor's divine power and hence Imperial technology can defy physics. This comes at a cost, however; humans don't believe in welding, so EVERYTHING the Guard uses is entirely held together by skulls and rivets.

EDIT:

And by that logic, Vanquisher Cannons shoot Vanquishers.... so tanks, like nanobots, can apparently now self-replicate, exponentially multiply themselves, and turn the battlefield into grey tank-goo.

woah, woah. I think everybody need to understand what plasma is before you start talking about plasma guns.

Plasma is a state of matter, like solid, liquid or gas. Nothing more, nothing less. Thus, anything that shoots any material that is in a plasma state is a plasma gun. Fire is carbon (et. al), in it's plasma state. Therefore a flame thrower is technically a plasma gun.

Many materials require very high temperatures under normal circumstances to be in a plasma. That said, to directly equate plasma with hot isn't always true. My wife works in condensed matter physics and has been around people who are working with plasmas in the range of 4 degrees Kelvin (cold).

As such flamers, and probably meltaguns are already plasma weapons. My guess as to why they added something called a plasma gun was that it sounded cool. They kind of put themselves in a tough place by giving it longer than 6" of range, though.

the Fluff is that plasma weapons fire Hydrogen in its plasma state. hence why Eldar call them Starcannons.

the Ammo canisters contain a Hydrogen compound as fuel.

so as far as weaponized plasma we are talking Hydrogen(and therefore very hot) plasma.

The gun shoots superheated gasses contained in an electromagnetic field (one of the unique properties of plasma is that it can be manipulated by magnetic fields). It's not so hard to see that field being strong or stable enough to be "fired" at a target and only being undone by physical impact.

What really isn't hard science is plasma cannons.

Yes, not like Plasma Pistols at all.

so we've established what plasma guns are & how their electromagnectic containment doohickey works, but what about meltaguns?

Is there any fluff which describes what melta guns do? Are they just like really strong hairdryers?

Meltaguns use cannisters similar to plasmaguns. So I presume they use a special chemical mix to create their effect. Aside from that, I've heard conflicting reports on how they work...

somecallmeJack wrote:so we've established what plasma guns are & how their electromagnectic containment doohickey works, but what about meltaguns?

Is there any fluff which describes what melta guns do? Are they just like really strong hairdryers?

Melissia wrote:Meltaguns use cannisters similar to plasmaguns. So I presume they use a special chemical mix to create their effect. Aside from that, I've heard conflicting reports on how they work...

Use to be petrol, then probably promethium then...who knows what GW BL or others have retconned it to.

Dark Heresy describes it as simply a highly pressurized cannister of "specially refined chemicals".

Melissia wrote:Dark Heresy describes it as simply a highly pressurized cannister of "specially refined chemicals".

Sounds ominous.

I was under the impression that meltaguns were like flamers in that they used an easily-produceable fuel source that they injected into a chamber that heated the fuel under pressure to insanely high temperatures. They then take this super-oven and have a door on the front of it that is openable with a trigger. Basically a heat-ray. It's why it dissipates so quickly and it can only do REAL damage from very close up.

Melta weapons take a Pyrum-petrol fuel, force it into a Sub-molecular state, subject it to intense pressure and vent it out the barrel.


essentially it bombards the target with intense Radiative energy, this achieves the Melting effect and also explains why it dissapates after a short distance, the energy has warmed up the surrounding air instead of the target.

Originally, melta guns were described as being incredibly high powered microwave emitters. I can't figure out why that would be, given their ability to slag metal, but if it were so, they'd be great for roasting flesh. MMMMmmmm-MMM! Orkabob!

which is why now the fluff is basically describing a Radiation gun.

it bombards the target with a small, but intense burst of energy which translates into heat upon contact with matter.